lancer425 Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 NO NO! Not that its not the 1970s. HOW LONG until we start to see the deaths as high as at the height of the virus. Will we ever know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Not really sure I understand what you're trying to imply really, but I would think the results ( or consequences ) of yesterdays relaxation of restrictions would begin to make themselves known in a couple of weeks. But there again I'd have thought the same would have applied regarding the protests/riots whatever you want to call them, of last month. A Minister has stated that the spike in Leicester has been threefold that of any other location, and been steadily rising, but he also stated that the 'textile industry' in that area needed closely looking at, implying unsatisfactory working conditions in that sector in Leicester, so nothing to do with relaxed lockdown. Maybe winter will bring higher numbers; it is traditionally the season for all manner of cold and flu type viruses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 The biggest problem is that the data set is changed in and out to tell the required story.. there have always been lies, damned lies and statistics and with state intervention and state media influence that becomes turbo charged. I always enjoyed reading George Orwell, I hadn’t realised he could predict the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, Scully said: Not really sure I understand what you're trying to imply really, but I would think the results ( or consequences ) of yesterdays relaxation of restrictions would begin to make themselves known in a couple of weeks. But there again I'd have thought the same would have applied regarding the protests/riots whatever you want to call them, of last month. A Minister has stated that the spike in Leicester has been threefold that of any other location, and been steadily rising, but he also stated that the 'textile industry' in that area needed closely looking at, implying unsatisfactory working conditions in that sector in Leicester, so nothing to do with relaxed lockdown. Maybe winter will bring higher numbers; it is traditionally the season for all manner of cold and flu type viruses. I read about that disgusting an employer telling a person to still come into work even thought she had Covid-19 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I thought perhaps a few weeks could see a rise in the death toll again. But my point is will we ever really know/ As PPP points out we are fed a diet"Death figure" that is palatable rather than based on facts. I am not even sure where we are AT!!!! on this thing any more. IF we ever really were anywhere. We live in strange times that is for sure, and i am just trying to fathom out what might happen next and roughly WHEN. What i can say is this as not panned out the way i expected it would, its much more vague and uncertain than i imagined it would be at the outset. And the thing is i am thinking we might have much more to come YET. Just SAYING and in truth i am starting to not know what to believe any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Personally I think the deaths have been overstated. Even if we were running above average excess deaths for a a few months we are now below average, likely because CV-19 accelerated the death of quite a few by days/week/months. Once this is all over I recon looking at the number of deaths over a year will show that we had slight Increase and many of those will be because of delayed treatment of Cancer patients for which the NHS has a lot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I thought perhaps a few weeks could see a rise in the death toll again. But my point is will we ever really know/ As PPP points out we are fed a diet"Death figure" that is palatable rather than based on facts. I am not even sure where we are AT!!!! on this thing any more. IF we ever really were anywhere. We live in strange times that is for sure, and i am just trying to fathom out what might happen next and roughly WHEN. What i can say is this as not panned out the way i expected it would, its much more vague and uncertain than i imagined it would be at the outset. And the thing is i am thinking we might have much more to come YET. Just SAYING and in truth i am starting to not know what to believe any more. Despite the idiosyncrasies of statistics, don't you think that if we were deliberately being fed duff figures for whatever reason, the media and the opposition would be making large of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, Scully said: Despite the idiosyncrasies of statistics, don't you think that if we were deliberately being fed duff figures for whatever reason, the media and the opposition would be making large of it? Paranoia springs to mind ? 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said: Despite the idiosyncrasies of statistics, don't you think that if we were deliberately being fed duff figures for whatever reason, the media and the opposition would be making large of it? No i do not think we are being fed duff info as such, but i think its hard to draw any accurate death figures from, info we have received. and i think genuinely issued data could miss out some people who died from cv19 and some got included who did not die directly from it. the care home deaths are a area that gets vague. We might never know true accurate figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I see what you mean. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 20:06, lancer425 said: No i do not think we are being fed duff info as such, but i think its hard to draw any accurate death figures from, info we have received. and i think genuinely issued data could miss out some people who died from cv19 and some got included who did not die directly from it. the care home deaths are a area that gets vague. We might never know true accurate figures. Don't they refer to some sort of 'rate above normal' to see the 'overall' effect ... Seems to make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Don't they refer to some sort of 'rate above normal' to see the 'overall' effect ... Seems to make sense to me. Can not say i heard of such a thing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 It’s been referred to several times on the daily briefings ... call excess death rate. Link below refers to it. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 True but, 600k die each year, so the 60k "extra" Corona deaths are about 10% increase to the normal, however all the information is presented in the way to maximise the perceived death rate from covid and ignore the annual death rate component from all other causes and which dwarfs the COVID19 death rate 10 to 1. And then we have the problem that the lockdown may result in 35,000 additional cancer deaths, 25,000 additional heart attacks, 10,000 suicides etc etc which are not caused by the covid but by the panic to it which has been whipped up and hyped by the media and which deaths may exceed the covid deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 18:14, AVB said: Personally I think the deaths have been overstated. Even if we were running above average excess deaths for a a few months we are now below average, likely because CV-19 accelerated the death of quite a few by days/week/months. Once this is all over I recon looking at the number of deaths over a year will show that we had slight Increase and many of those will be because of delayed treatment of Cancer patients for which the NHS has a lot to answer for. Exactly this On 05/07/2020 at 18:43, Scully said: Despite the idiosyncrasies of statistics, don't you think that if we were deliberately being fed duff figures for whatever reason, the media and the opposition would be making large of it? That depends on what the media use for its 'news' If they are using government 'duff' figures , then what can they say except go along with that ? It doesnt stop them blaming the government, especially over care home deaths, despite the fact the government has very little control over that aspect. The opposition will blame the government for whatever it can, whilst secretly thanking the stars for not being in power when this happened. On 05/07/2020 at 19:12, JKD said: Paranoia springs to mind ? 😏 A bit like the paranoia, when we were told half a million people could die of this, and things would NEVER be the same again, anywhere ? 2 hours ago, Smokersmith said: Don't they refer to some sort of 'rate above normal' to see the 'overall' effect ... Seems to make sense to me. Yes, even the government has stated that the 'true' figure will not be known until the year on year averages have been looked at. The figures have definitely been 'massaged' Those care home deaths, where many CV deaths were put down by unqualified staff are a good example, the simple fact that a lot of deaths of people in their 80s and 90s , or people with very serious underlying health issues, were put down as dying from CV is disgraceful. Many of them NEVER tested, and very very few having a post mortem. Its guesswork at best, and fraudulent misdirection at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 The only ‘duff’ info’ which crosses my mind is that of those who died while having Covid, as opposed to those who actually died of Covid. There is a difference, but I can’t say I’m that interested enough to make the effort to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Scully said: The only ‘duff’ info’ which crosses my mind is that of those who died while having Covid, as opposed to those who actually died of Covid. There is a difference, but I can’t say I’m that interested enough to make the effort to find out. No way of ever finding out, the data was probably never collected, and the people who died are dead and buried. The report I read stated died with/of/complications arising from, or 'suspected , ALL counted as a covid death. Thats why we have the highest figures outside the US , just the way certain parties were allowed to count them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 Get over the figures and get on with your lives, please. Do the figures, however they are collated/gathered/reported, actually affect your lives ? Doesn't affect mine in the slightest. I've done my thing during the pandemic and will continue to do so to try not to get the virus. The 'actual' numbers of how many people have it, had it, died from it etc etc, doesn't directly affect me and the way I live and work. Stop getting hung up on things you can't figure out [no pun intended] and as has been said, will probably never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 20:06, lancer425 said: No i do not think we are being fed duff info as such, but i think its hard to draw any accurate death figures from, info we have received. and i think genuinely issued data could miss out some people who died from cv19 and some got included who did not die directly from it. the care home deaths are a area that gets vague. We might never know true accurate figures. If CV19 was the start of the process that lead to the death, then CV19 is the cause of death not your heart stopping. If you have carbon monoxide poisoning then that is the cause of death not your heart stopping, even if you are elderly and have underling health issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, ordnance said: If CV19 was the start of the process that lead to the death, then CV19 is the cause of death not your heart stopping. If you have carbon monoxide poisoning then that is the cause of death not your heart stopping, even if you are elderly and have underling health issues. So if you had lung cancer and were poorly but still alive, then you caught CV19 then your Lungs got infected and you could not survive the combination . then you died of Lung cancer not CV19 which tipped your condition over the edge . . ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, lancer425 said: So if you had lung cancer and were poorly but still alive, then you caught CV19 then your Lungs got infected and you could not survive the combination . then you died of Lung cancer not CV19 which tipped your condition over the edge . . ? Quote Doctors are expected to detail on certificates the chain of events directly leading to death, although selection of the underlying cause is made by statisticians following international rules. The chain of events in that case would be catching CV19 the lung cancer would be a underlying cause. Edited July 7, 2020 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, ordnance said: The chain of events in that case would be catching CV19 the lung cancer would be a underlying cause. Ok its just clicked in i got it now thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.