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Morning All,

Met a chap a couple of days ago and the conversation got round to FAC,he told me that in order to keep your FAC you have to purchase a number of rounds each year to show the Police that you are  using your rifle, anyone else heard of this ?

I have 200 rounds of .243 on my ticket and unless I go to the range they will last me a year or so....

ATB

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In my understanding...As long as you are using your rifle is key to your justification for ownership. A deer stalker may use three rounds a year for a specific rifle. I hadn’t used my .308” for over a year and received a phone call from my FEO effectively to remind me to use it or lose it.  (Bought the rifle, never bothered to buy ammunition, moved house... left a perfect paper trail of my own incompetence). 

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To own a firearm on a FAC you need a good reason. The police argue that if you are not using it, you no longer need it therefore don’t have good reason for it. 

Round usage is open to interpretation. Use 3 or 4 rounds a year for a stalking rifle might be acceptable but 3 or 4 rounds for a target rifle would be harder to argue for

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On my renewel, they questioned me as I hadn't bought much ammo for my .243, mainly because I was using .308, but I could show I had used the .243 occasionally so had need. As said above, they will argue if you're not buying ammo for the calibre in question, do you "have need".....

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Not sure about over on the mainland there but I've never had that queried on my certificate. I last bought .22lr about 5 years ago....brick of 400 h/v and had a few subs left and have only just got to nearly running out. Thing is over here(northern ireland) if you put down on a renewal that you will be "target shooting"(shooting lots of rounds) but are not a member of a club they will call you to say no, if you meant plinking in a field They will ask you to request it for "vermin control" because "target shooting" is a club range specific licence condition, however if you are just conditioned as I am for "vermin control" you also get something like  "with allowance to zero on approved ranges" it is quite reasonable to me that a brick of 500 bullets could last a long time. If I was asked why I haven't bought much ammo I can easily justify lack of use to them, I have young children!! anyone who has been in that boat knows how much of your free time they take from you!!

I don't think they should be allowed to say "you're not using that at the minute hand it over" there could be reasons for lack of use over a time period.

When i think back to when I was a target shooter and habitual clay shooter I bought bullets and cartridges at the grounds and used them there and not once did they enter them on my ticket.

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Haven't bought factory Cf for well over a decade  never had an issue at renewals bullets , primers , powder etc dont go on your ticket and so long as you have valid land for use available at renewals there should never be an issue . Never has with mine  

The bullet use thing comes often enough when your an occasional club shooter who keeps a lot of firearms . 

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Its going to be a tough year for a few then, i've not been out anywhere near as much this year due to C19 and work, and my renewal is up in November,  and i have not bought any ammo for probably 10 years. 

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As I understand it at 'Renewal' you should be be able to 'demonstrate regular use'.  Regular use is not defined but if I cannot show I have made regular use I would expect to asked a further question. I would not expect the FEO to count all rounds in my possession, but if he/she did, and I have the same amount I had 5 years ago I think I would have difficulty 'demonstrating regular use' and be caught in the 'good reason' failure argument.  As a home loader, where only complete rounds are taken into consideration, you have a situation where demonstrating use is difficult unless you keep records.  It happens in this area, where a count of ammunition is made to prove 'good reason' but it only ties down the factory ammo user. My FEO states all Section 1 weapon's 'good reason' depends on a count of ammunition, but he went quiet when I said it cannot apply to Section 1 multi-shot shotguns, Section 1 or FAC Air Rifles, Muzzle Loaders or even a .22LR using rat/bird shot.  Another FLU adding their own chapters and paragraphs to the Guidance in this case.

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8 hours ago, London Best said:

 

I did know a chap many years ago that had his .22rf revoked for not buying any ammo.

My uncle lost his for the very same reason when they tightened things up after Hungerford.

Mick

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1 hour ago, powler said:

My uncle lost his for the very same reason when they tightened things up after Hungerford.

Mick

The man I knew lost his in the early 1970’s.

I never bought any C/F .308 ammo from 1992 until 2018, when I had to use factory stuff to keep some of my ground. I have never  ever bought any factory for my .22 Hornet.

Edited by London Best
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My last 2 FAC renewals have both raised questions about ammo usage. My argument is that my .222 for foxes and roe is 1 bullet 1 kill so why would I be shooting 100  bullets a year to justify keeping it?

As for my .22 we have very few rabbits so not getting the usage it did and when the population increases I will fire more.

I gave up my 17 HMR earlier this year so wasn't an issue.

All ammunition in my possession was counted and deducted against what I had bought and they worked out my yearly average.

I've asked for a variation from .17 to .308 for boar shooting and explained this will only be used abroad of trips and I have no idea how many will be used on each trip but I need to have enough to last the whole trip as I won't be able to purchase any abroad. The next question was can you provide the names of the estates you intend to shoot on when you go abroad to prove you need the rifle? Or do you think you might want to buy a day on the reds to make it easier to justify. I politely declined the offer as I have no desire to go crawling through tick riddled heather on the side of a mountain haha!

 

I also argued that the purchase record being a usage indicator is flawed and could actually increase illegal stockpiling as people are scared that not buying is showing as non usage. Nothing to stop anyone going and buying a couple of boxes every 3 months from a RFD. Just need to go out every few months a rezero the rifles.

Edited by Perazzishot
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I know of a couple of shooters who have got many calibers that don't go out from one year to the next so maybe they are trying to get rid of some of the dead wood so to speak.

It will clear up some of their time if they havent got to keep so much paperwork on so called shooters who don't go out it will make things a lot quicker for those who do use there rifles or shotguns  as the saying goes use it or lose it 

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1 hour ago, Rim Fire said:

I know of a couple of shooters who have got many calibers that don't go out from one year to the next so maybe they are trying to get rid of some of the dead wood so to speak.

It will clear up some of their time if they havent got to keep so much paperwork on so called shooters who don't go out it will make things a lot quicker for those who do use there rifles or shotguns  as the saying goes use it or lose it 

It's a sensible approach to my mind. If stuff is not being used then clear it out. I suspect that any reduction in work load would be likley to lead to a reduction in staff rather than an increase in the quality of service. 

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8 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's a sensible approach to my mind. If stuff is not being used then clear it out. I suspect that any reduction in work load would be likley to lead to a reduction in staff rather than an increase in the quality of service. 

i don't think there would be enough of a reduction in workload to lay staff off but would make there workload more manageable 

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You can buy the kit off the tinternet from 22 reloader.com from the good ole US of A to reload 22 rf now so that could be another reason for not buying 22 rf

addmittedly your not going to reload a brick of the stuff to fiddly for me but it can be done just saying 

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Don’t try a stunt I was told about, a guy did not purchase any ammunition .22LR for the whole 5yr life of his certificate as he just did not use the rifle anyway on renewal of his FAC he did not return his old certificate claiming he had shredded it. FLO comes out for his interview for renewal & asked him what gun shop he gets his ammo from the FLO then phoned the gun shop to check their records. He lost his certificate.

Edited by blackbird
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2 hours ago, Sidelever said:

Having the clubs and ranges closed for months due to the virus hasn’t help with ammo usage.

I bought some .22lr to zero and use for target practice but not been out of the safe for 6 months now.🙁

 

Every one is in the same boat 

but you have the other 4.1/2 years to use it  

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On 20/07/2020 at 08:02, Lucky Shot 1958 said:

Morning All,

Met a chap a couple of days ago and the conversation got round to FAC,he told me that in order to keep your FAC you have to purchase a number of rounds each year to show the Police that you are  using your rifle, anyone else heard of this ?

I have 200 rounds of .243 on my ticket and unless I go to the range they will last me a year or so....

ATB

Hi Lucky shot, due to family commitments and the location of my stalking ground I maybe get a couple of trips away and maybe 2-4 deer a year so I get through very few rounds with my one and only centre fire rifle.  I’ve never had any problems or even had it queried on renewal

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