What should one do?

[bluesj]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

There would definitely be a difference there, as you can use any force necessary and reasonable in the circumstances in defence of yourself or another, that doesn't apply to badgers.

I assume that section covers carrying a firearm in a public place, not discharging it to dispatch suffering wildlife.

Unless you can show different, I believe it would be an offence in law, no matter how well intentioned, which is a very important distinction if we want to be on the right side of the law and keep our tickets.

I assume you can't be bothered to read it the 2 bits of the law that i think would cover the the ops situation but you should you might learn something.

What law is that have you got a link? I would put money on the fact you have discharged a firearm in a public place, after all a public place is a place where the public are have access a clay ground. 

[AULD YIN]

Unless the law has changed 

In Scotland one may shoot from a highway, but an offence is committed under common law if anyone is disturbed or inconvenienced

[bluesj]

6 minutes ago, AULD YIN said:

Unless the law has changed 

In Scotland one may shoot from a highway, but an offence is committed under common law if anyone is disturbed or inconvenienced

In England its an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the center of a highway without lawful authority or excuse if a user of that highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. 

basically if you stop traffic and shoot you break the law unless the courts think your excuse is good enough, if the police or someone with authority to do so stop the traffic and you shoot your not breaking the law.

And it wasn't Dave down the pub that told use this it was a lawyer but if any one ever thinks about doing the best thing for a injured animal on the road i would say don't do it call the police and let them have the problem. We get 2 or 3 calls a month from members of the public about injured deer etc and always tell them we can't do anything and to call the police  

[12gauge82]

6 hours ago, bluesj said:

In England its an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the center of a highway without lawful authority or excuse if a user of that highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. 

basically if you stop traffic and shoot you break the law unless the courts think your excuse is good enough, if the police or someone with authority to do so stop the traffic and you shoot your not breaking the law.

And it wasn't Dave down the pub that told use this it was a lawyer but if any one ever thinks about doing the best thing for a injured animal on the road i would say don't do it call the police and let them have the problem. We get 2 or 3 calls a month from members of the public about injured deer etc and always tell them we can't do anything and to call the police  

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the legality of dispatching a suffering animal with a firearm or shotgun and it appears contrary to your original post, without authority, if you take it upon yourself to do so, you commit an offence. Getting into discussions about the definitions of public places ect doesn't change that, discharging a shotgun at a clay ground is very different to shooting Bamby on the side of the road.

[bluesj]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the legality of dispatching a suffering animal with a firearm or shotgun and it appears contrary to your original post, without authority, if you take it upon yourself to do so, you commit an offence. Getting into discussions about the definitions of public places ect doesn't change that, discharging a shotgun at a clay ground is very different to shooting Bamby on the side of the road.

Its the reasonable excuse bit that is important if you take it upon yourself to do it. Had a lawyer look in to it and armed trespass law as we could be accused of breaking all 3 bits of law at times for work and although it is only one lawyers point of view humane dispatch would be reasonable excuse and that there was case law for it and in our case a destruction order would be the same. If I get chance I will try to find the report at work.

Having said that he still advised against putting ourselves in a position of having to use the reasonable excuse clause!

[WalkedUp]

100% do not use your firearm or shotgun. Even if you could argue that it is within the law it is not worth the headache. Call 101 and drive on, not all problems are ours to sort. 

On a driven game day a neighbouring land owner came out to speak to us after a drive, his old horse had fallen into a ditch in the paddock and broken its legs. The vet couldn’t get out until the next day (apparently)... would the gamekeeper mind finishing it off? “Yes, but I’m not carrying it back to the game kart”. 12 bore AAAs (fox cartridge) to the back of the head and it was over, it was the most humane thing to do but on private ground at the permission of the land owner. 

[AVB]

Twice on early morning journeys to a shoot I have hit deer in my Defender and twice I have dispatched them with my shotgun. Didn’t think twice about it. They were quiet country lanes with nobody about. Would I have done the same on a busy road, mid morning? Not sure. Before I read these posts yes. 

[243deer]

I also turn out to help with RTA's - if the animal or any part of it is on the highway it could possibly cause an accident and you may therefore and should call 999 - whether the animal is alive or dead.

If you wish to deal with the situation yourself and consider that you have a suitable skill level and have a suitable firearm with you (so far on highway call outs a .410 has always been quite sufficient but technically for humane dispatch you can use most firearms - even a .22lr with subs but a sub 12 air rifle would not be considered humane ) Until such time as you have an incident number you are not deemed to have 'lawful authority' to discharge a firearm on a public highway, or even to have a loaded firearm on the highway. The operations room will usually send an officer(s) to deal with traffic control and you will have to wait for them but they are usually sensible and pragmatic and in AVB's situation above they may well say get on with it.

Many counties now have trained officers and do their own HD so you may just be thanked for your call.

[Old farrier]

Well there’s a few different thoughts about this one 

firstly the person who hit the animal should have stopped and dealt with it!!!!

i believe there’s a difference between deer ( game) 

badger (protected mammal) 

fox (vermin) 

all these things should be considered before you take action 
also are you qualified to decide if it’s not going to survive or it’s beyond treatment (vet ) 

In  today’s climate 101 

seek professional guidance depending upon the individual situation 

[243deer]

9 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

firstly the person who hit the animal should have stopped and dealt with it!!!!

100%

[moose man]

7 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

 

On a driven game day a neighbouring land owner came out to speak to us after a drive, his old horse had fallen into a ditch in the paddock and broken its legs. The vet couldn’t get out until the next day (apparently)... would the gamekeeper mind finishing it off? “Yes, but I’m not carrying it back to the game kart”. 12 bore AAAs (fox cartridge) to the back of the head and it was over, it was the most humane thing to do but on private ground at the permission of the land owner. 

Pedantic I know , but back of the head , absolutely not the place to shoot a horse ..

[bluesj]

41 minutes ago, moose man said:

Pedantic I know , but back of the head , absolutely not the place to shoot a horse ..

Wouldn't be my first choice but nor would using a shotgun but sometime you have to do what you have to do.

[12gauge82]

10 hours ago, bluesj said:

Its the reasonable excuse bit that is important if you take it upon yourself to do it. Had a lawyer look in to it and armed trespass law as we could be accused of breaking all 3 bits of law at times for work and although it is only one lawyers point of view humane dispatch would be reasonable excuse and that there was case law for it and in our case a destruction order would be the same. If I get chance I will try to find the report at work.

Having said that he still advised against putting ourselves in a position of having to use the reasonable excuse clause!

Appreciate the further explanation.

Sounds a very muddy grey area, interesting none the less, thanks

[bluesj]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Appreciate the further explanation.

Sounds a very muddy grey area, interesting none the less, thanks

I think muddy is an understatement as with a lot of the law around firearms 

[WalkedUp]

3 hours ago, moose man said:

Pedantic I know , but back of the head , absolutely not the place to shoot a horse ..

To be fair I didn’t see the fatal shot, just heard it as we went off for 11s. He’s a great character but judging from the accuracy of his general descriptions (on that next drive stand by the green bit of grass I was stood at last time, I will meet you next to the small tree etc) “back of its head” could have been anywhere from its muzzle to its withers.

I haven’t had to dispatch an equine and have no prior knowledge of the correct shot placement, I know in cattle it’s the diagonal intersection of ears and eyes. Similar in horses and badgers? 

[moose man]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

To be fair I didn’t see the fatal shot, just heard it as we went off for 11s. He’s a great character but judging from the accuracy of his general descriptions (on that next drive stand by the green bit of grass I was stood at last time, I will meet you next to the small tree etc) “back of its head” could have been anywhere from its muzzle to its withers.

I haven’t had to dispatch an equine and have no prior knowledge of the correct shot placement, I know in cattle it’s the diagonal intersection of ears and eyes. Similar in horses and badgers? 

Fair play ...😂

[pigeon controller]

I would ring 101 and let Armed  response deal with it., authorised guns. I say this as a recent Police program suggested that some loose cows would have to be shot by AR if the owner could not be found.

[JDog]

Thank you for the varying responses.

I am sure that I made the correct decision not to go  back and put the animal out of its misery given the circumstances. Had the event happened on a quiet country lane my response would almost certainly have been different.