Thanks BASC for committing us to a voluntary lead ban ahead of the ECHA having its proposals.

[243deer]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

Give an indifferent ( to shooting ) housewife with young children a choice between meat shot with non-toxic shot and that shot with toxic shot, which do you think she would choose?  

Very sadly I do not think that most would choose game at all

[strimmer_13]

7 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Very sadly I do not think that most would choose game at all

I wouldn't. I don't like pheasant or partridge. Venison and boar, lovely, just i have no taste for such birds unless I put them in a curry,  which is why I don't shoot them. 

I also worked in the food processing sector briefly, and all food gos through metal detectors, and they are ridiculously accurate. Ours used to bin the whole lot if it detected even the smallest filing. 

[enfieldspares]

50 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Very sadly I do not think that most would choose game at all

Exactly. I either take a share of what I've shot or am given it by others that have shot it. But what game I have ever bought in the last ten, nay twenty, years has come from Birmingham or Leicester Market. Dressed or in feather depending on what's on offer and its price. But I can assure ALL that it has, from time to time, contained shot. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by enfieldspares

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, 243deer said:

Very sadly I do not think that most would choose game at all

no they would not those days are almost over and if she did it would be on price this crying toxic toxic rubbish fools nobody 

[BrowningB7]

Turkey dinosaurs or chicken nuggets. If she was interested in cooking pheasant or partridge she or the other half would be involved in shooting in some way. 

Like someone said on a different thread before, "if there was a market demand, they would be farmed like chickens and turkeys and not shot at all".

[strimmer_13]

55 minutes ago, BrowningB7 said:

 

Like someone said on a different thread before, "if there was a market demand, they would be farmed like chickens and turkeys and not shot at all".

Thats always been my view, supply and demand. And there's no demand, apart from a select few restaurants, butchers and pet food. 

Bare with me here, im all over the place. 

 

So what I'm also struggling to understand, food products/stuffs sells, because visually it looks good/appetising. That's easily half a sellers battle, probably more. 

A lead shot pheasant, say by the average experienced game shooter, will be roughly say 30-50 yards, with im guessing a no 6 shot, so maybe 8 strikes on the bird as a average? I've seen more and I've seen less. Once plucked, no matter what bird it is, its going to have holes. These holes will be clotted. Now that doesn't bother me, I know how they got there. 

So I'm guessing for steel to be effective, you up the shot size, and wind in the range to be nearly as effective (I'm not going down the reloading route or the hp steel, I'm talking standard steel carts that potentially in time will fit most guns whether they are used or not due to age of said gun), so, is the meat going to be badly battered and bruised, because I'm guessing steel will still be shifting at the closer range obviously good enough to kill. And bigger holes leave bigger bruises. And a plucked pheasant isn't exactly a big bird. 

All I'll say is, nobody is going to buy a product which is badly holed and bruised. Just look how much chicken gets left on the supermarket shelves because it 'looks' funny, and that's a reared, mostly then bleached bird. Butchers sell them because the people who buy them want them and know the score. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by strimmer_13

[Scully]

39 minutes ago, BrowningB7 said:

Turkey dinosaurs or chicken nuggets. If she was interested in cooking pheasant or partridge she or the other half would be involved in shooting in some way. 

Like someone said on a different thread before, "if there was a market demand, they would be farmed like chickens and turkeys and not shot at all".

Perhaps they consume more game in the European mainland? Isn’t that where it is intended exported birds go? 

[Terry2016]

14 hours ago, stuartyboy said:

You’re right in what you say to an extent but it’s the folk that aren’t pro or anti shooting that will ultimately have a say on shooting. And they’re the ones that we need to reach or positively influence.

Less than 1 % of the UKs population hold tickets. So if we guesstimate that 5 % of the population are pro field sports, we could guess that maybe also 5 % are very anti shooting. Using these very rough figures, that leaves 90% of the population who have no knowledge or view or interest/care either way. The anti shooting minority won’t realistically change their views so little point in reaching out to them. And there’s not much point spending too much time and effort with educating the pro shooting folk as they’re on side anyway.

That leaves the neutral 90% who have the potential to influence political decision making. They are the ones that we need to educate and try to get onside.

BASC may or not be up to this job, that’s up to BASC and the members to decide. I don’t think they are and that’s why I’m no longer a member. However, I respect the BASC reps coming on here with their views and think the forum is better for it.

With the issue of lead, BASC has got it right. It’s regarded by the public as a poison and as conservationists we can’t argue we’re benefiting the countryside if we’re seen to be contaminating the land that we are supposed to love and protect. The average person only knows of lead through banning the use of it in petrol, paint etc. All negative images. Yes, you can argue that you’ve eaten lead shot all your life and it’s done no harm or ‘where are the countless dead wildfowl suffering from lead poisoning ‘ but it’s proven that lead is poisonous and more importantly, the vast majority of people know this. So we have to be seen to take action.

Shooting is fighting for its life in its present state and I don’t think it’s got a good future, but for any chance of survival we need to fight for hearts and minds. And it’s the neutral 90% of the population that we need to reach and hopefully influence.

well said 

11 hours ago, oowee said:

very sensible post..👍

It does not matter if it is shooting, fishing, motor racing or boating, it is unacceptable, for the sake of sport, to dump crud into the environment. We are sportsman that love, respect and hold our countryside playground close to our hearts. Surely that ethos is incompatible with putting lead (and plastic) into the environment we love? 

This is exactly what it is about.  

And weather people choose to believe it or not when a community changes what they do for the protection of the countryside and its wildlife people acknowledge the genuine benefit. 

Its much better than being pushed? 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, strimmer_13 said:

So I'm guessing for steel to be effective, you up the shot size, and wind in the range to be nearly as effective (I'm not going down the reloading route or the hp steel, I'm talking standard steel carts that potentially in time will fit most guns whether they are used or not due to age of said gun), so, is the meat going to be badly battered and bruised, because I'm guessing steel will still be shifting at the closer range obviously good enough to kill. And bigger holes leave bigger bruises. And a plucked pheasant isn't exactly a big bird. 

All I'll say is, nobody is going to buy a product which is badly holed and bruised. Just look how much chicken gets left on the supermarket shelves because it 'looks' funny, and that's a reared, mostly then bleached bird. Butchers sell them because the people who buy them want them and know the score. 

This. Also. +1. And as others have said if there was a market someone would be breeding them like chickens. And killing them like chickens. Which the Chinese ONCE did and which, ONCE were imported frozen into the UK. By Aldi or Lidl I think and they found there was no market.

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

This. Also. +1. And as others have said if there was a market someone would be breeding them like chickens. And killing them like chickens. Which the Chinese ONCE did and which, ONCE were imported frozen into the UK. By Aldi or Lidl I think and they found there was no market.

So what are the alternatives? What do you suggest we do? 
Give us your view of what should be done to try to ensure the future of shooting in the UK. 
 

[BrowningB7]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Perhaps they consume more game in the European mainland? Isn’t that where it is intended exported birds go? 

Don't know? I only researched the link between BASC - a food processing company up north - Waitrose. 

I did talk to a big partridge shoot keeper who said a lot of his days are for wealthy Middle Eastern clients. Every bird is packed up and flown back with them. Not sure where they stand on lead.