Rewulf Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Konor said: Snip --I would appreciate as a licence holder being able to switch rifle calibres without having to go through a variation process. I’d like to be able to own a Winchester model twelve 5 shot on my shotgun certificate and there are probably a host of other small changes that could be made to make things easier for certificate holders with no risk attached but I think licensing of shotguns and firearms should be retained and not relaxed simply because criminals can access firearms anyway.-- Snip Well you certainly know how to mis quote Konor, I dont really know where to start... I would go back and read the whole thread again, and try to grasp what Scully and I were saying, no one said anything about abolishing the licencing system. The US states with the TIGHTEST gun control systems, are the ones that subsequently ended up with the highest gun crime. If you believe that lax gun CONTROL is the precursor to gun CRIME , then Im afraid youve completely and utterly missed the point. Your friends in Boston dont carry guns now because theyve suddenly decided they want/can do , its probably because liberal shenaniggans has made them NEED to. The system in this country needs looking at, in effect gun CRIME sentencing needs looking at, and increasing to make carrying an illegal weapon, and Ill include knives in this, more than is worthwhile for your average crim. Gun LICENCING could do with some of the red tape removing , moderators , variations, S1 shotguns ect. As far as background and health checks go , Im fairly OK with that, but generally speaking the firearms act needs a good looking at, as in many respects its not fit for purpose. The problem is, the powers that be are looking at that as a possible road to make licencing even more strict and bloated than it already is. And that is the crux of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rewulf said: Well you certainly know how to mis quote Konor, I dont really know where to start... I would go back and read the whole thread again, and try to grasp what Scully and I were saying, no one said anything about abolishing the licencing system. The US states with the TIGHTEST gun control systems, are the ones that subsequently ended up with the highest gun crime. If you believe that lax gun CONTROL is the precursor to gun CRIME , then Im afraid youve completely and utterly missed the point. Your friends in Boston dont carry guns now because theyve suddenly decided they want/can do , its probably because liberal shenaniggans has made them NEED to. The system in this country needs looking at, in effect gun CRIME sentencing needs looking at, and increasing to make carrying an illegal weapon, and Ill include knives in this, more than is worthwhile for your average crim. Gun LICENCING could do with some of the red tape removing , moderators , variations, S1 shotguns ect. As far as background and health checks go , Im fairly OK with that, but generally speaking the firearms act needs a good looking at, as in many respects its not fit for purpose. The problem is, the powers that be are looking at that as a possible road to make licencing even more strict and bloated than it already is. And that is the crux of this thread. Sorry Rewulf but I haven’t misquoted anyone I’ve reread over my posts and I’m quite happy with the content. Ive read over your’s and Scully posts and believe the point is does accessibility control the level of gun crime/abuse in the UK and does licensing decrease that accessibility and I believe in both cases the answer is yes for the majority of the UK population. Edited August 21, 2020 by Konor Addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Konor said: Sorry Scully but I haven’t misquoted anyone I’ve reread over my posts and I’m quite happy with the content. Seeing as I am not Scully, Im not confident that you have re read the thread properly 55 minutes ago, Konor said: the point is does accessibility control the level of gun crime/abuse in the UK What does that mean , 'accessibility' ?? Are you talking legal access or illegal access ? The 2 things are not intrinsically linked, illegal access is not really within the control of the authorities , at a guess , for every gun taken off the streets, 2 are liable to be imported in. Legal access does not feed illegal use, how can you argue otherwise ? Edited August 21, 2020 by Rewulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Seeing as I am not Scully, Im not confident that you have re read the thread properly What does that mean , 'accessibility' ?? Are you talking legal access or illegal access ? The 2 things are not intrinsically linked, illegal access is not really within the control of the authorities , at a guess , for every gun taken off the streets, 2 are liable to be imported in. Legal access does not feed illegal use, how can you argue otherwise ? Surely I don’t have to define accessibility to you . Legal access on the whole does not feed illegal access for professional criminals as they have their own sources of weapons and ammunition.Licensing however ensures accountability of individual firearms as they are listed on certificates and decreases the abuse of firearms by irresponsible individuals who would seek ownership for purposes other than sport. I think you should read my post again then think about it.. Edited August 21, 2020 by Konor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Konor said: I think you should read my post again then think about it.. 1 hour ago, Konor said: Ive read over your’s and Scully posts and believe the point is does accessibility control the level of gun crime/abuse in the UK and does licensing decrease that accessibility and believe in both cases the answer is yes for the majority of the UK population. I re read that several times..and sorry, but thats as clear as mud . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: I re read that several times..and sorry, but thats as clear as mud . I can’t understand it for you Rewulf . But I have added an I which I had omitted if that makes it clearer. My following post was an attempt to clarify ,did you understand it. The easier it is to lay your hands on a firearm statistically the more likely it is that they will be abused. Consider if anyone , over the age of 18 say, was free to walk in to the British equivalent of Walmart ,as is the case in probably most states in America ,and purchase a shotgun and ammunition without having to first apply for a license. Then consider the level of gang or drug related knife crime say in London . Then taking into account the amount of money available to youngsters involved in the drug trade don’t you think there is a chance that this access to shotguns and ammunition in this instance, would increase the chances of a rise in shootings . Or put another way. If an 18 year old youth was chased through the streets by two or three guys with knives and managed to escape they might think it would be in their best interests to nip out to the British Walmart equivalent and purchase a shotgun and a box of SSG shot cartridges. Edited August 21, 2020 by Konor Clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Konor said: The easier it is to lay your hands on a firearm statistically the more likely it is that they will be abused. Is that a wild guess ? Statistically ? Do you want to back that up, are we talking legally or illegally 'laying hands on '? 14 minutes ago, Konor said: Consider if anyone , over the age of 18 say, was free to walk in to the British equivalent of Walmart ,as is the case in probably most states in America ,and purchase a shotgun and ammunition without having to first apply for a license. Then consider the level of gang or drug related knife crime say in London . Then taking into account the amount of money available to youngsters involved in the drug trade don’t you think there is a chance that this access to shotguns and ammunition in this instance, would increase the chances of a rise in shootings . Again , no one has said abolish licences ! And if thats the case in the US , or how you believe it to be, every crim , petty to crime lord has a gun ? Surely there should be carnage ? But the great equaliser works both ways. US gun control over the past 150 years, and the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 I haven’t dropped out of this debate, am just a bit busy at the moment. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Is that a wild guess ? Statistically ? Do you want to back that up, are we talking legally or illegally 'laying hands on '? Again , no one has said abolish licences ! And if thats the case in the US , or how you believe it to be, every crim , petty to crime lord has a gun ? Surely there should be carnage ? But the great equaliser works both ways. US gun control over the past 150 years, and the results. I think I have made my views very clear. It appears from your inclusion of the graph in your post that you consider that the UK would be better if it moved to a state of shall issue permits to fight fire with fire in order to drop gun homicides but I don’t think the licensing laws in America are relevant here as permits are not issued on the whole for self defence in the UK. I’m more concerned that we don’t get to the point where we need the great equaliser which works both ways, as you put it ,to control gun homicides in the UK. I don’t think a steady diet of Guns and Ammo magazines information is relevant to the UK licensing laws and wishing a relaxation of laws to put ourselves in the sad position that America is now in where in many cases the sensible course of action is to be permanently armed is not something we should be arguing for Did you manage to understand my posts you were having difficulty with earlier? Edited August 21, 2020 by Konor Addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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