Grouse shooting article in the Sun

[mellors]

47 minutes ago, David BASC said:

So if BASC say nothing you moan, If BASC runs a proactive shooting campaign you moan.

Perhaps people like you do not know or do not care about the bigger picture of grouse shooting in the UK, its benefits to the working man in the local community for example, or the even bigger picture that the majority of the worlds heather moorland supporting  red grouse is in the UK, or that the biological diversity of managed moorland is far greater than that which is not managed for shooting.

Sadly you and people like you have an agenda to attack BASC regardless of what we do, 

Don't think it's an attack on basc its more an attack on their lack of attention to the majority of the funding membership. Take away the chance of legal help when in need. Now let's throw money at the big money shooters grouse  big bag pheasant shoots etc. Let's send out magazines from shops 90% of the membership can't afford along with private medical adverts. I really think they've lost there way. By the way I've been a member since wagbi finished via my wildfowling club and had phoned twice both times for info and wasn't impressed with lack of knowledge then so I don't bother. I dispair. 

[McSpredder]

 

1 hour ago, David BASC said:

See this on our response to Liddel https://basc.org.uk/liddles-rant-ignores-the-reality-as-celebrities-pedal-moor-myths/

It is good to see that our organisations responding to misleading press articles, but why are no facts are being presented to counter the mis-information.   Surely this is an opportunity to reiterate the truth.   Without it, we have nothing more than a BASC rant against McCubbin and Liddle.

It is all very well writing that "...followers who ‘liked’ her post will care little for the counter-arguments, no matter how well evidenced",  but a non-shooter who knows nothing about those counter-arguments may just think "Well, BASC would say that, wouldn't they?"

[David BASC]

It really is a sad day when people on a shooting forum start attacking other shooters just because others have a bit more money then they do...as I say you miss the bigger picture about the wider environmental and economic benefits of grouse shooting or for that matter pheasant and partridge shooting too.

Where do you think the gamekeepers,  beaters and pickers up come from? Do you think they bus up from London on an all expense paid for coach, stay in 5 star hotels, get driven to the shoot in Range Rovers and eat caviar for their elevenses? Or perhaps you don't know that these local men and women from backgrounds not too far away from yours and mine look forward to the grouse, partridge and pheasant season too?

To then try and degrade my comments by saying I am 'crying' is simply  crass and puerile.

BASC represents the interests of all shooters, regardless of whether you spend £thousands a year or get all your shooting for free

As for getting the facts across, look at the other link on the adverts and editorials we delivered across loads of local and regional papers last week...

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, David BASC said:

It really is a sad day when people on a shooting forum start attacking other shooters just because others have a bit more money then they do...as I say you miss the bigger picture about the wider environmental and economic benefits of grouse shooting or for that matter pheasant and partridge shooting too.

Where do you think the gamekeepers,  beaters and pickers up come from? Do you think they bus up from London on an all expense paid for coach, stay in 5 star hotels, get driven to the shoot in Range Rovers and eat caviar for their elevenses? Or perhaps you don't know that these local men and women from backgrounds not too far away from yours and mine look forward to the grouse, partridge and pheasant season too?

To then try and degrade my comments by saying I am 'crying' is simply  crass and puerile.

BASC represents the interests of all shooters, regardless of whether you spend £thousands a year or get all your shooting for free

As for getting the facts across, look at the other link on the adverts and editorials we delivered across loads of local and regional papers last week...

on reflection david your right i should give due credit so congratulations basc for rubbing the public’s nose in it that some can afford to shoot grouse while their loved ones are dying in a pandemic outstanding brilliant you must have brought a ban on shooting years closer to say nothing of waking up to find the sun rag has portrayed shooters as hooray henry’s slaughtering everything all thanks to basc 

[mellors]

6 minutes ago, David BASC said:

It really is a sad day when people on a shooting forum start attacking other shooters just because others have a bit more money then they do...as I say you miss the bigger picture about the wider environmental and economic benefits of grouse shooting or for that matter pheasant and partridge shooting too.

Where do you think the gamekeepers,  beaters and pickers up come from? Do you think they bus up from London on an all expense paid for coach, stay in 5 star hotels, get driven to the shoot in Range Rovers and eat caviar for their elevenses? Or perhaps you don't know that these local men and women from backgrounds not too far away from yours and mine look forward to the grouse, partridge and pheasant season too?

To then try and degrade my comments by saying I am 'crying' is simply  crass and puerile.

BASC represents the interests of all shooters, regardless of whether you spend £thousands a year or get all your shooting for free

As for getting the facts across, look at the other link on the adverts and editorials we delivered across loads of local and regional papers last week...

My post was in no way an attack on other shooters. I've been involved in keepering over 50 years and still part time now. I'm all in for conservation for the future. My point was the way basc shows it's self or not as is the case now. 

[Terry2016]

12 minutes ago, clangerman said:

on reflection david your right i should give due credit so congratulations basc for rubbing the public’s nose in it that some can afford to shoot grouse while their loved ones are dying in a pandemic outstanding brilliant you must have brought a ban on shooting years closer to say nothing of waking up to find the sun rag has portrayed shooters as hooray henry’s slaughtering everything all thanks to basc 

So I am clear what you are saying we shouldn't show people or celebrate that we shoot because there is a pandemic? are you a shooter ?

Or does your statement just relate to grouse shooting because you say afford?  you sound jealous. the majority of people up on the moor will be working class folk. beater pickers keepers. with a few guns... that is who is being congratulated not just the people who fund it ... oh yes that the guns... paying for all the conservation work horrible horrible toffs.. with too much money .... giving it to people for looking after the countryside and providing work for the local community ... this is a disgrace 🤣 we shouldn't tell anybody...

Many of the sick with covid will be be shooters and countrymen and women who would disagree with your ridiculous comment they would want it to be celebrated and go on.. 

i do not understand your statement regarding "Brought a ban years closer"  how ..by telling people how much conservation work goes on behind the scenes each year..  

The sun will post what they want..always have no one takes it seriously . 

[B725]

43 minutes ago, clangerman said:

on reflection david your right i should give due credit so congratulations basc for rubbing the public’s nose in it that some can afford to shoot grouse while their loved ones are dying in a pandemic outstanding brilliant you must have brought a ban on shooting years closer to say nothing of waking up to find the sun rag has portrayed shooters as hooray henry’s slaughtering everything all thanks to basc 

I don't shoot grouse and probably never will as I don't have the money to. I also don't think BASC is rubbing my nose it either just the same with some of pheasant shooting I just shoot within my means and certainly not jealous of the people that do. Having money will not stop you suffering from the pandemic.

[Terry2016]

2 hours ago, B725 said:

I don't shoot grouse and probably never will as I don't have the money to. I also don't think BASC is rubbing my nose it either just the same with some of pheasant shooting I just shoot within my means and certainly not jealous of the people that do. Having money will not stop you suffering from the pandemic.

👍

 

[London Best]

It’s about time some of the stupid ‘toff haters/bashers’ realised that there are many places/situations where grouse can be shot for nothing, just as a few pheasants can be shot by walking around a local farm permission. It is driven grouse shooting which costs money just as driven pheasant costs money. Anybody that really wants to shoot a grouse can (eventually) find somewhere to do it for nothing.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Anybody that really wants to shoot a grouse can

Walked up grouse is relatively inexpensive and great fun.  You do however have to be quite fit and those of us of 'a certain age' may find it unsuitable now.  I used to do a good few days a year, but it has been cancelled the last couple of years due to low stocks, and I doubt I will do it again.

[London Best]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

Walked up grouse is relatively inexpensive and great fun.  You do however have to be quite fit and those of us of 'a certain age' may find it unsuitable now.  I used to do a good few days a year, but it has been cancelled the last couple of years due to low stocks, and I doubt I will do it again.

My point exactly sir. But even cheaper is to find a hill farmer somewhere you may have one or two grouse on his land and maybe give permission for a walk round. I have a stuffed grouse in my living room, shot walked up with a .410....cost: nothing.

About six years ago I realised I had never shot grouse traditionally over pointers so booked a day and travelled ‘oop North’ and had a go. What a fantastic experience.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

What a fantastic experience.

I did at least one, and up to half a dozen walked up days a year (some over pointers) for all but 3 of the last 40+ years.  You are right, it is a wonderful thing, but a fairly good level of fitness is needed.  I have shot grouse in both Wales and Scotland, but never in England!

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I did at least one, and up to half a dozen walked up days a year (some over pointers) for all but 3 of the last 40+ years.  You are right, it is a wonderful thing, but a fairly good level of fitness is needed.  I have shot grouse in both Wales and Scotland, but never in England!

You are obviously a ‘ toff’. (Joking!) I have done a few walked up days but only the one over pointers. It was very interesting to see the dogs work. I have also been privileged to shoot on four small driven days, the last one as a guest the others I seem to remember cost £120 in the early eighties. Biggest bag was around fifty.

[B725]

But some people will always have money that's just how the world is, communism dosnt work

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, B725 said:

But some people will always have money that's just how the world is, communism dosnt work

Very true.

[clangerman]

51 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Walked up grouse is relatively inexpensive and great fun.  You do however have to be quite fit and those of us of 'a certain age' may find it unsuitable now.  I used to do a good few days a year, but it has been cancelled the last couple of years due to low stocks, and I doubt I will do it again.

of coarse grouse can be shot at no great expensive the jealousy claim is just a weak ploy to divert from the facts slackman must be laughing his head of 

[White Rabbit]

The attitudes of some on this forum are quite frankly pathetic. 

I, and thousands of others, are employed by "hooray Henrys". That's how the world works. Get over it.

Our last two days have been fogged off (the boss doesn't insure). During that time I've paid out £4600 in wages to beaters, flankers and pickers up to basically sit in a car park til midday. Money straight in to the local rural economy. £2300 a day. Not to mention hotels etc... multiply that by 28 days on average.

Some people need to wake up and look at the bigger picture.

WR.

[greylag]

Well done BASC.Its nice you have begun to rattle the cages of the people who are after DGS,,Some people on this forum will criticise BASC never mind what they do.If driven grouse shooting goes say goodbye to the next in line,pheasant,wildfowling ,pigeon,crows you take your pick.

Get the facts out there to the general public,the rags such as the Sun will never give the facts and won't allow the true facts be printed in  there's or their sister rags.Packham and the rest of his pack of tellers of half truths must be beaten if we are to carry on with the pastimes we love.

Wouldn't it  be nice if the shooting community could all sing from the same hymn sheet and not stick divisions in what we do,as someone on here as already said ,there will always be people with enough money to do things that most of only aspire to,let's not deride them ,let's applaud that without the money there would be no grouse ,waders, ,raptors and the whole of the moorland infrastructure.

I never have and probably never will shoot driven or walked up grouse,. but I dread the day when the Glorious Twelfth will cease to, be a celebrated date in the shooting calender,just as the First of September is so very special to me.

[clangerman]

39 minutes ago, White Rabbit said:

The attitudes of some on this forum are quite frankly pathetic. 

I, and thousands of others, are employed by "hooray Henrys". That's how the world works. Get over it.

Our last two days have been fogged off (the boss doesn't insure). During that time I've paid out £4600 in wages to beaters, flankers and pickers up to basically sit in a car park til midday. Money straight in to the local rural economy. £2300 a day. Not to mention hotels etc... multiply that by 28 days on average.

Some people need to wake up and look at the bigger picture.

WR.

i couldn’t care less who you work for if you think chucking your bit of loose change in the local economy is a excuse to portray shooters as a bunch of champagne charlie’s having a good time in the middle of a pandemic your wrong with you calling people pathetic it’s not hard to see why the public are offended by grouse shooting 

[Cannon]

If as David says Grouse shooting is so accessible, then why do so many shooters seem to think the opposite? Perhaps the shooting organisations could do something to change the perception of these shooters? Saying that, I'm a believer that there's no smoke without fire. These perceptions have came from somewhere and have had enough substance to back them up at some stage. Maybe things have changed over the years?

[Rob85]

On 13/08/2020 at 17:28, B725 said:

August 12, the Glorious Twelfth, marks the start of the grouse shooting seasonCredit: Getty - Contributor
This is when City boys and braying toffs take to the grouse moors and start blasting away at anything that moves. Especially grouse. 

Slow, heavy birds. Not very bright. Hard to miss them from eight yards with a 12-bore, even if you’re a halfwit.

It’s a bad day for the rest of us, too. And for our countryside. 

Grouse moors take up an astonishing eight per cent of our land. And yet they are kept solely for the grouse and the 40,000 or so numpties who try to shoot them every year.

As a result, these moorlands are almost entirely devoid of wildlife. Just barren deserts full of heather and nothing else.

And the gamekeepers burn the heather every spring – just when any songbirds might be nesting. The rest of their time is taken up shooting or trapping our most beautiful and endangered birds of prey.

This is the tripe that was written.

So the idiot who wrote this article thinks that grouse shooting is an easy venture? I bet he gets his info from Hollywood movies where the hero takes out 4 baddies with the spread of his buckshot.

"Hard to miss them from 8 yards with a 12-bore even if you're a halfwit"

Maybe BASC should arrange for the writer of the article to attend a simulated grouse drive to see how many he can hit.

Obviously he should in no way do any training before hand apart from being given rudimentary safety instructions so he can be at the same skill level as the toffs. Then he can blast away and see how many simulated clay "grouse" he can hit to prove that anyone could do it.

Personally I don't want to see the damage that would be done to a grouse being driven towards guns at full chat being hit centre pattern by a 12bore at 8 yards distance and I would like to think that any self respecting gamekeeper would not have a gun back again who shot in such a manner.

[Saltings]

i can only speak from experience  four or five   times on grouse   shooting once a year as a holiday     saved up for months or all year  to shoot over pointers walked up  and a few  days driven  at the end     about 12 years ago as my mind was willing but the body was weak       we  would shoot early/ mid September when the birds were stronger     on one really windy day driven the grouse were clocked by a device by the keepers  son at 102mph     what a day   ( missiles)    however grouse  with one no 9 pellet will fall out of the sky at 40 yrds one of the easiest quarry  to kill and  follow  the undulations of the  ground    a pleasure to watch  from miles out       and over pointers or walked up always make a cackling sound when taking flight       i am not a rich man   and will never be     ( one life live it )     (  they dont put drawers in coffins there are no retakes  )        the hotel and loss of earnings cost more than the shooting  you dont have to be rich to shoot on the hill        however fitness is key  travel light  6 weeks in the gym gets you nout  when your are gasping for air  your lungs are bleeding and your legs dont work  and the keeper walks past you eating an apple and asking if you are  ok 4 mile out    on a 12 mile beat     walked up / over pointers reasonable costs if fit and a pleasure to watch the different types of dog work   Hungarian visla   English pointers     red setters  work   they all work differently my preference the irish setter very graceful     driven late season can be really  good               if you have obese amounts of money the first few days are yours           i would recommend any one to go to Scotland for the scenery and shooting   Yorkshire is like walking on  a Livingroom carpet in comparison        that said pigeon shooting is the sport of kings by comparison my 10p      go to Scotland take it all in walk the hill  its an experience you will never  forget       call it a staycation  and a jolly 👍

[White Rabbit]

There is a poster on this forum who quite clearly doesn't understand what we do as a fieldsports fraternity and takes every opportunity to stir up division amongst us. 

Constant digs, constant negativity. His hatred of anyone with more money than him shines through. The poor lad can't even afford full stops!

No doubt he will be seething at this as well and bang out another incoherent response to keep the venom going.

Are trolls allowed on this board?

WR.

[Terry2016]

10 hours ago, White Rabbit said:

The attitudes of some on this forum are quite frankly pathetic. 

I, and thousands of others, are employed by "hooray Henrys". That's how the world works. Get over it.

Our last two days have been fogged off (the boss doesn't insure). During that time I've paid out £4600 in wages to beaters, flankers and pickers up to basically sit in a car park til midday. Money straight in to the local rural economy. £2300 a day. Not to mention hotels etc... multiply that by 28 days on average.

Some people need to wake up and look at the bigger picture.

WR.

Commendable,  thank you for the hard work put in over the year, I hope the weather clears and you are able to get the rest of your season in.  

[button]

2 hours ago, White Rabbit said:

There is a poster on this forum who quite clearly doesn't understand what we do as a fieldsports fraternity and takes every opportunity to stir up division amongst us. 

Constant digs, constant negativity. His hatred of anyone with more money than him shines through. The poor lad can't even afford full stops!

No doubt he will be seething at this as well and bang out another incoherent response to keep the venom going.

Are trolls allowed on this board?

WR.

Always the case - jealousy is not a nice trait

100% agree with every word

Out of interest which area do you work in?