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I have had Viszlas for the last thirty years maybe a day or two more. They have all been killing machines and never told lies. I believe far better all rounders than my old Lab Muffin.

I love all dogs which work game. They are a bit like humans, the good , the bad and the ugly and it is often the ugly one which finds that elusive lost bird.

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3 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

No Loyd I haven't worked or owned an English Pointer, but if you look closely, that wasn't my question. 

The Clue is in the name Lloyd german wirehaired POINTER .

And if you look closely you'll see that an English Pointer is classed as HPR.

And the land rover thing was nearly funny when Walker570 cracked it earlier, but just go's to show...............

And yes pointers may not be suitable for the vast majority as you put it, but the minority may want to put time into their dog day in day out and have a fantastic all round dog at the end of it.

And to watch a pointer doing it's work regardless of what it is , is a sight to behold. Especially if you have been the one capable of training it and maintaining the standard.


 

If I have made a mistake, I do apologise. 
 

However, why if they are a HPR are they classed with a completely different group for a different type for working and to a different set of standards?
 

They are classed as ‘pointers and setters’ in the J regs, and as such there is no expectation for a pointer to make a retrieve. They are also run against setters in competition. 

 

I note they are not classes with ‘breeds that hunt, point and retrieve’ (HPR’s) ... despite apparently being HPR’s ... doesn’t make any sense that does it 🤷‍♂️ ... I do note that german wire, short and longhair POINTERS are classed under this ‘HPR’s’ category... because that’s what they do ... not solely point. 
 

The Land Rover thing has been used on many threads about dogs by many people. It’s a good example to highlight the point... hence why lots of people use it ... 
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ninjaferret said:

 


Google doesn’t register and class dogs, write the J regs or standards or run any sort of competitive stakes. The KC and gundog clubs do. Maybe you should ring the KC and all the clubs and tell them they need to totally change how they run HPR and Pointer and Setter trials because you googled something ... 
 

Don’t come on this thread and cry if something doesn’t suit your view point. 
If you can’t conduct yourself like an adult perhaps it’s you that should leave. 
 

Didn’t you throw your toys out the pram several posts ago and say you weren’t coming back? Despite coming back several times...
 

I was trying to be polite(ish) and raise genuine points ... clearly you are unable to come up with anything constructive so have resorted to name calling... 🙄
 

 

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Gents I have been shooting and saw sorts , a lab that wouldn’t retrieve , a spaniel that wouldn’t hunt , a lab scared of water and a hpr that retrieved geese ...... so there are exceptions to everything 

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42 minutes ago, Salmo said:

Gents I have been shooting and saw sorts , a lab that wouldn’t retrieve , a spaniel that wouldn’t hunt , a lab scared of water and a hpr that retrieved geese ...... so there are exceptions to everything 


Guns that couldn’t shoot? 👀🤔🤣

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20 hours ago, scotslad said:

Was it not guy that wrote the versatile gundog? ( If not it was Michael brander) 1 off the first UK books on hprs.

 

A great book and a brilliant gentleman. The film @London Best mentions is well worth watching on YouTube. He lived up near my wife’s uncle (the former heir to Earl of Craven title) and mixed in similar circles. Hence the title of my old thread:

 

 

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57 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

Well my pointers work , pigeon, crow's pheasants, partridge, snipe, woodcock, duck, geese, hare, rabbits, roe and fox. Show me a lab or spaniel to do the same.

I thought you left several posts back? 🤷‍♂️

24 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

A great book and a brilliant gentleman. The film @London Best mentions is well worth watching on YouTube. He lived up near my wife’s uncle (the former heir to Earl of Craven title) and mixed in similar circles. Hence the title of my old thread:

 

 


Have you read Guy’s book? 
 

My copy should be delivered tomorrow :) 

Reading ‘The Specialist Gundog’ just now. 
 

 

He has a lot of praise for the HPR’ breeds. Looking forward to the book coming tomorrow :) 

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1 minute ago, shootthepigeon said:

 If it ain't a field trial spaniel or lab it has no place in the field.

 
You must have read a different thread to everyone else 😂🤷‍♂️

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Just might be nice to stick to topics you have first hand experience in? I haven't on true pointers/setters so interested to read different accounts, rather than clogging a good thread with i read in a book or my mate said.

Just my opinion you understand

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On 16/08/2020 at 13:55, picardy said:

hi has anybody had any experience with training and working with the English pointer ,really are fascinated with these dogs and would love to work one in the near future 

At worst you could contact Eddie Kania, Chairman of NW GSP, he used to run English Pointers but has been into HPRs for some time now. I don’t know any contacts for English Pointers but I know the GWCT guys run them when counting the same moors we count.

I have personally never seen an English pointer on a lowland shoot, there must be some about. 

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4 minutes ago, shootthepigeon said:

Just might be nice to stick to topics you have first hand experience in? I haven't on true pointers/setters so interested to read different accounts, rather than clogging a good thread with i read in a book or my mate said.

Just my opinion you understand


Ah I see, your the ferrets mate, who bought one of his pups. 
 

Read back through this thread... no one said pointers weren’t worth considering, the general consensus was to consider if it suited the work you have available for it. 
 

As I have read... not a single person posting so far has said they have owned or worked an ENGLISH POINTER, or any type of setter for the record...

Were not talking about what the ferret keeps calling pointers (despite them being an entirely different class of dogs, being HPR’s). 
 

So who do you want to reply to this thread? No one?
 

It would be a blank chat. 
 

So far there has been a lot of good conversation on this thread. I have tried to remain on topic, even apologising when I may have made mistakes or errors. 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:


Ah I see, your the ferrets mate, who bought one of his pups. 
 

Read back through this thread... no one said pointers weren’t worth considering, the general consensus was to consider if it suited the work you have available for it. 
 

As I have read... not a single person posting so far has said they have owned or worked an ENGLISH POINTER, or any type of setter for the record...

Were not talking about what the ferret keeps calling pointers (despite them being an entirely different class of dogs, being HPR’s). 
 

So who do you want to reply to this thread? No one?
 

It would be a blank chat. 
 

So far there has been a lot of good conversation on this thread. I have tried to remain on topic, even apologising when I may have made mistakes or errors. 
 

 

See GMM243 back on page 1, 

But I give in the constant bickering is doing nothing for this thread or the forum, and I don't want to derail any further.

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22 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

Well my pointers work , pigeon, crow's pheasants, partridge, snipe, woodcock, duck, geese, hare, rabbits, roe and fox. Show me a lab or spaniel to do the same.

 

So ur dog retrieves the above??

No offence but apart from fox most labs will do that as normal.

And it wouldn't be hard to train it to retrieve a fox if y really wanted it too.

In Denmark labs make up 30% ( the other 2x 30% are hprs and hound breeds) of the official schwiss hound register, which is for proper tracking/scenting dogs following 24hr+  cold scents, in training scent shoe only with no blood 24+he old.

Many stalkers use labs solely for deer work or dual purpose with game.

But more and more are using hprs too. 

Doubt any would use an EP thou

 

The way I evaluate all dogs or breeds is break everything u need it to do down into parts and score them out off 10 for each

Hunting, handling, water work, retrieving, obedience, ease of training etc.

U could add as many as u wanted.

Not saying labs are the best breed ever but they excel at many things but even there poorer disciplines they would still score 5-7 in a bloody lot off different parts.

As I've said before no good looking wot the best trained dogs of a breed do, look at the average and worst trained as chances are that's wot u'll end up with.

 

Do u actually use ur hpr to point at all??

 

 

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6 minutes ago, scotslad said:

 

So ur dog retrieves the above??

No offence but apart from fox most labs will do that as normal.

And it wouldn't be hard to train it to retrieve a fox if y really wanted it too.

In Denmark labs make up 30% ( the other 2x 30% are hprs and hound breeds) of the official schwiss hound register, which is for proper tracking/scenting dogs following 24hr+  cold scents, in training scent shoe only with no blood 24+he old.

Many stalkers use labs solely for deer work or dual purpose with game.

But more and more are using hprs too. 

Doubt any would use an EP thou

 

The way I evaluate all dogs or breeds is break everything u need it to do down into parts and score them out off 10 for each

Hunting, handling, water work, retrieving, obedience, ease of training etc.

U could add as many as u wanted.

Not saying labs are the best breed ever but they excel at many things but even there poorer disciplines they would still score 5-7 in a bloody lot off different parts.

As I've said before no good looking wot the best trained dogs of a breed do, look at the average and worst trained as chances are that's wot u'll end up with.

 

Do u actually use ur hpr to point at all??

 

 

No, she just sit's on the sofa having a beer or two and often the odd spliff reading books on how it should be done.................................................actually reminds me of a few on here :big_boss:

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17 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

No, she just sit's on the sofa having a beer or two and often the odd spliff reading books on how it should be done.................................................actually reminds me of a few on here :big_boss:

I wasn't taking the mick, apart from snipe or deer none would really be classed as hpr work 

And even snipe depends how u shoot them/drive them.

Do u work them on open ground or just as a 'wonder' dog showing labs up?

 

Any half decent lab should do almost all u mentioned just as normal, nothing special, to be honest any working dog/breed should be doing wot u said really.

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