Cormorants

[billytheghillie]

Wrong, not illegal over wetland in Scotland,  i could name at least  2 dozen guys that do it.

Edited August 20, 2020 by billytheghillie

[ClemFandango]

31 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

Wrong, not illegal over wetland in Scotland,  i could name at least  2 dozen guys that do it.

Oh dear. 

You and your two dozen mates need to read the legislation pretty sharpish. You couldn't be any more in the wrong. 

It's very clear. In fact I'm not sure how there could be any confusion... 

Taken from the scottish government website. 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/environmental-protection-restriction-use-lead-shot-scotland-2-regulations-2004/

4. No person shall use lead shot for the purpose of shooting with a shot gun on or over wetlands

Offences

5. Any person who contravenes regulation 4, or causes or permits another person to contravene that regulation, shall be guilty of an offence, and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

And from the BASC website

https://basc.org.uk/lead/

Scotland and Northern Ireland

• Don’t use lead shot for shooting over the foreshore, or for shooting over wetlands including streams, rivers, ponds, marshes, wet fields and moorlands with visible standing water.

I suggest you stop using lead shot over wetlands in Scotland and tell your at least two dozen friends to stop as well. I also suggest you stop advising others that it's okay. It isn't. It's illegal. Has been for 16 years. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by ClemFandango

[billytheghillie]

Well why is it, on a well known shoot, the pheasants are flushed out to fly over river, and many are shot over the river, and end up in river.

[ClemFandango]

Why is it many people exceed the speed limit? 

Why is it people shoplift? 

I don't know. 

What I do know is that it is illegal to use lead shot over wetlands in England, Scotland and Wales.

Jesus man How much more do you need? I linked to the scottish government website with the legislation.

8 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

Well why is it, on a well known shoot, the pheasants are flushed out to fly over river, and many are shot over the river, and end up in river.

Well known or not. They are breaking the law if they are using lead shot. 

Christ on a bike! The law has been in place for 16 years! 

 

[billytheghillie]

keep your hair on, im just saying it happens

[ClemFandango]

On 20/08/2020 at 20:42, billytheghillie said:

Wrong, not illegal over wetland in Scotland,  i could name at least  2 dozen guys that do it.

No you weren't "Just saying it  happens." You were advising on an open public forum that it is legal to use lead over wetlands in Scotland. 

You were saying that it must be legal because you know at least 24 people who do it and one big pheasant shoot. 

Not is wholly irresponsible to undertake any kind of shooting without understanding the law it is also wholly irresponsible to advise others to do the same. 

This is the sort of thing that lead to the General Licenses challenges and it will lead to a total ban on lead shot. 

Your ignorance and the ignorance of your mates jeopardises the future of shooting across the UK. 

Oh, and I am bald as it happens. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by ClemFandango

[Rewulf]

[JDog]

Billy, it would appear that you have been 'Fandango'd'. You are not the first and I doubt that you will be the last.

[Eddie B]

Whats this thread about again?😂

[ClemFandango]

3 hours ago, JDog said:

Billy, it would appear that you have been 'Fandango'd'. You are not the first and I doubt that you will be the last.

You know when you've been Fandango'd

[billytheghillie]

8 hours ago, JDog said:

Billy, it would appear that you have been 'Fandango'd'. You are not the first and I doubt that you will be the last.

i cant say on here what i think about him, but everybody is entitled to there little rant!

[WalkedUp]

I enjoyed that spat and learnt something from it. Well done all involved for keeping it clean. “You know when you’ve been Fandango’d” 🤣

[ClemFandango]

1 hour ago, billytheghillie said:

i cant say on here what i think about him, but everybody is entitled to there little rant.

You can say whatever you like about me. None of this is personal. It's just the internet. 

It's their, not there by the way. 

[billytheghillie]

2 words

[WalkedUp]

With love? 🤔

[ClemFandango]

1 hour ago, billytheghillie said:

2 words

Thank you? 

[Balotelli]

I think that legally cormorants can only be shot using a shotgun. Don't ask me why when a .22 or.17 rifle would be a much better bet. But as many have said you'll have to set the alarm for the crack of dawn. The protection of cormorants stemmed from an EU ruling and I believe it was the pygmy cormorant that was intended to be protected but somehow morphed into cormorant. I can assure you that cormorants are partial to both steel and lead. Horrible destructive birds. As you might have guessed, one of Packham's co-presenters thinks they're wonderful, but she probably also has a soft spot for mosquitoes.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Balotelli
additional thought

[ClemFandango]

7 hours ago, Balotelli said:

I think that legally cormorants can only be shot using a shotgun. Don't ask me why when a .22 or.17 rifle would be a much better bet. But as many have said you'll have to set the alarm for the crack of dawn. The protection of cormorants stemmed from an EU ruling and I believe it was the pygmy cormorant that was intended to be protected but somehow morphed into cormorant. I can assure you that cormorants are partial to both steel and lead. Horrible destructive birds. As you might have guessed, one of Packham's co-presenters thinks they're wonderful, but she probably also has a soft spot for mosquitoes.

No. That's not true.  

A licence may specify what method you can use but in this country you can use rifles to cull cormorants. 

In fact the EU guidance documentation refers to using rifles to cull cormorants and it's relative efficiency. 

"The use of rifles is likely to have 
limited, if any, effect in conditioning 
other birds, so there may well be 
little potential scaring effect of killing 
birds with rifles. Safety will be a key 
consideration with regard to any use 
of firearms, but it will be a particular 
concern where rifles might be used. 
Bullets can travel for distances of 
over 2 km and may ricochet off 
water, rocky outcrops, gravel banks 
and other surfaces. Thus, rifles will 
not always be suitable for use on or 
near water bodies, particularly where 
there is public access."

So I'm not sure where you got the idea that the EU prohibits the shooting of cormorants with a rifle... Because it doesn't.

 

[Balotelli]

3 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

No. That's not true.  

A licence may specify what method you can use but in this country you can use rifles to cull cormorants. 

In fact the EU guidance documentation refers to using rifles to cull cormorants and it's relative efficiency. 

"The use of rifles is likely to have 
limited, if any, effect in conditioning 
other birds, so there may well be 
little potential scaring effect of killing 
birds with rifles. Safety will be a key 
consideration with regard to any use 
of firearms, but it will be a particular 
concern where rifles might be used. 
Bullets can travel for distances of 
over 2 km and may ricochet off 
water, rocky outcrops, gravel banks 
and other surfaces. Thus, rifles will 
not always be suitable for use on or 
near water bodies, particularly where 
there is public access."

So I'm not sure where you got the idea that the EU prohibits the shooting of cormorants with a rifle... Because it doesn't.

 

Ok, That's good news. Maybe it was the landowner that stipulated only using a shotgun for the reasons you gave regarding the use of rifles, I don't think that I implied that it was an EU ruling. What I intended to comment was that it was the EU ruling that confused protecting the pygmy cormorant with the cormorants which have proliferated inland.  A guy I know was given permisssion to shoot a number of cormorants on a trout water. He managed one in five years. Unfortunately, he was the the only one allowed to do so. For Jacko's benefit, cormorants are creatures of habit and when not plundering fish stocks tend to sit on particular branches or outcrops, so lay in wait.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by Balotelli

[Guest cookoff013]

i`ve heard that they are shot with steel. 
 

i pointed out the legislation that the way it is worded, shooting lead cartridges over wetlands and ponds is illegal. but succumbed to naysayers that its only shooting wildfowl birds.

How can discharging lead shot over wetlands be legal as long as you are shooting clays? the legislation is worded in a way it cannot be misinterpreted.  my point was against clays hooting over some wetland and ponds.

 

[ClemFandango]

10 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

i`ve heard that they are shot with steel. 
 

i pointed out the legislation that the way it is worded, shooting lead cartridges over wetlands and ponds is illegal. but succumbed to naysayers that its only shooting wildfowl birds.

How can discharging lead shot over wetlands be legal as long as you are shooting clays? the legislation is worded in a way it cannot be misinterpreted.  my point was against clays hooting over some wetland and ponds.

 

You are 100% correct. 

Any shooting of lead shot in shotguns over wetlands in England Scotland and Wales is illegal regardless of species/target. 

In England and Wales it is then also illegal to shoot certain species with lead shot (mainly waterfoul) wherever they are found i.e. not over wetlands.  

48 minutes ago, Balotelli said:

Ok, That's good news. Maybe it was the landowner that stipulated only using a shotgun for the reasons you gave regarding the use of rifles, I don't think that I implied that it was an EU ruling. What I intended to comment was that it was the EU ruling that confused protecting the pygmy cormorant with the cormorants which have proliferated inland.  A guy I know was given permisssion to shoot a number of cormorants on a trout water. He managed one in five years. Unfortunately, he was the the only one allowed to do so. For Jacko's benefit, cormorants are creatures of habit and when not plundering fish stocks tend to sit on particular branches or outcrops, so lay in wait.  

Sorry if I misunderstood your first post. 

[Jacko3275]

On 17/08/2020 at 15:05, Rewulf said:

Id check if you need to use steel, but if not , lead 5s.

Wary bird , so you might struggle to get into effective range.

As Eddie says, get into an ambush position before it gets light, or you will struggle, how many has the licence given to cull ?

Licence says I can shoot with no less than a 20 bore with shot that must be bigger than 6 but not excessive as in BBs I am allowed 10 this season which is now 9 as I shot my first this morning

[6.5x55SE]

Well done 👍 what non lead and shot size did you use

[Jacko3275]

16 hours ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Well done 👍 what non lead and shot size did you use

Gamebore mammoth 36g 3s not cheap but hopefully won’t need that many

[6.5x55SE]

6 hours ago, Jacko3275 said:

Gamebore mammoth 36g 3s not cheap but hopefully won’t need that many

Good choice. Don't dismiss Gamebore super steel in 3's either cracking Goose cartridges £5.60 per 25 and the 3" mammoth are £3 per 10 if you buy box of 100.

Good luck keep at em