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Exams Fiasco


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What an absolute farce the exams fiasco is proving to be. My granddaughter was offered a place at Durham University on the basis that she achieved three A grades. Well beyond me, but star that she is, she was awarded two A*s and a B (although her teacher graded her as an A). Although we were led to believe by the Government that universities would show some latitude, this was not the case for Durham, who declined her a place. We can't help but feel that this is because of her disability and the fact that she attended a state school. Of course, all this changed when the Government decided to accept teacher assessments. This, of course meant that she now has two A*s and an A - above the required grades. Can she speak with someone at Durham to clarify that she has a place - no chance. Durham issued a statement suggesting that students in her position might (just MIGHT be given a place in 2021), i.e. put her life on hold for a year - not going to happen! My view is that the original offer is binding on the university and they should now reconsider and reinstate their original offer of a place. Can't help but feel very sorry for all of the young people who have failed to secure a place in further education through no fault of their own. If Durham renege on their offer they should hang their heads in shame!

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There is no perfect solution to this unfortunately. The grade inflation that the state schools applied meant that there was always going to be a readjustment downwards for many. And now that teacher grades are being accepted it means significant grade inflation compared to previous years. Now it could of course mean that this years cohort are particularly bright!  The subject of university entry criteria was discussed on R2 at lunchtime and a so called ‘expert’ said that the universities were under no legal obligation to stick to previously confirmed places although they do have a moral duty to. 
 

I would have thought that you daughters disability and state education would go in her favour as universities are under pressure to accept more state pupils. If anything it is privately educated who are discriminated against nowadays. 
 

My son is waiting for his GCSE results on Thursday so not as important as A levels but still of importance to him. 
 

 

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I greatly sympathise with your granddaughter's situation, along with many other kids in a similar predicament.  I expect there is still a bit more water to flow under the bridge on this before it is all done and dusted and hopefully Durham Uni will reconsider their position.

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The problem is that every single year there are a massive number of people who don’t get their predicted grade, and have to go through clearing, change their course, take a year out or resit some of the exams and try again next year. 
 

Universities offer places knowing that a number of people won’t get the required grades. 
 

I can’t see them having the space to take absolutely everyone ... although their is rumour that with no foreign students coming over there will he loads of spaces free. 
 

 

 

I do think however that suggesting your granddaughter has been pushed off due to her disability is a bit of a stretch to be honest with you mate. 

Most universities are BY FAR the most inclusive and supportive places for people with disabilities. The facilities and support they offer sets the example for most other places to be honest. Have to give credit where it is due. 

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28 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

I can’t see them having the space to take absolutely everyone ... although their is rumour that with no foreign students coming over there will he loads of spaces free. 
 

 

A mate of mine is a top insolvency brief. He is working with a significant number of universities, including Russel Group, that are in dire straits financially. I think they will take as many as they can physically squeeze in. 
 

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9 minutes ago, AVB said:

A mate of mine is a top insolvency brief. He is working with a significant number of universities, including Russel Group, that are in dire straits financially. I think they will take as many as they can physically squeeze in. 
 

Hello, I hope they will do but will still be a difficult time for young people getting in their Uni of choice, 

Edited by oldypigeonpopper
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12 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I hope they will do but will still be a difficult time for young people getting in their Uni of choice, 

Every year many don’t get their Uni of choice. For some reason this year it is being classed as a national disaster if little Jonny doesn’t get where he wants to go. 

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1 hour ago, grrclark said:

I greatly sympathise with your granddaughter's situation, along with many other kids in a similar predicament.  I expect there is still a bit more water to flow under the bridge on this before it is all done and dusted and hopefully Durham Uni will reconsider their position.

+1. Keep pressing I am sure they will confirm the place. No doubt they are snowed under and spinning around, having to look again at the offers they have made and the revised offers in the light of the Govt's first set of results and yet again with the latest. I doubt they know where they are. 

This government is shambolic to say the least. The sooner we get a new leader with a grip on things the better.

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The trouble is as well its all dependant on the courses and how popular it is Uni's rely on the fact that not all their offers will accept and not all will hit the grades required. As grades have now been revised and are significantly up I bet is will cause issues on popular courses. A case in point a friend of my daughters got lower than expected grades and didnt get her first choice (Nottingham) but even though she didnt hit the offer level for her second choice (Oxford Brooks who had previously given her an unconditional offer if she picked it as her first choice)  they let her in with slightly below offered grades as the course wasnt popular.

To be honest regarding Durham they really dropped in my estimation after we went there for an open day and one of the staff doing introductions was slating unconditional offers as unprofessional and Durham would never do it. Lo and behold when the Covid crisis hit and it looked like they were going to not get the bums on seats they wanted unconditional offers were issued for certain courses.   

I seriously doubt they discriminated on disability thought in any way as from our tours round campuses they do really do everything they can for people with disabilities to allow them to use their hard one achievements the ones we went to had some great support all through from accommodation to access to facilities.

 

  

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I’m glad I’m long past A levels and University, but I feel most sorry for those kids from last year and the year to come who will end up competing with kids given artificially inflated grades through no work of their own.

 

Life is (hopefully) long enough that if she really wants to go to Durham leaving it a year is of no major consequence. Especially if she uses this year to start cv building and working towards the all important first job after uni. It may even be better to go into a year group that isn’t horrendously overpacked. 

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My two kids are in 5th year and last year of 6th form (I refuse to use the American system!!) this September and I am extremely concerned about what is going to happen for them - especially the eldest. He is extremely clever - but also extremely lazy and he disregards what we have to say about his need to get good grades.

It wasn't like it was when we were young for jobs. Exams were almost irrelevant for a majority of jobs back then - and even then I ****** up mine and ended up not making the grade for an apprenticeship in the RAF so in a way I am speaking from experience

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6 hours ago, AVB said:

Every year many don’t get their Uni of choice. For some reason this year it is being classed as a national disaster if little Jonny doesn’t get where he wants to go. 

The difference being that previously, that would be down to little Jonny not putting the work in & achieving the right grades, rather than an algorithm that has unfairly reduced grades. 
 

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20 minutes ago, Bumble said:

The difference being that previously, that would be down to little Jonny not putting the work in & achieving the right grades, rather than an algorithm that has unfairly reduced grades. 
 

In previous years Jonny doesn’t put in the effort and flunks exam. This year Jonny doesn’t put in the effort, teacher overstates his expected grade and now he gets good grades. 

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10 minutes ago, AVB said:

In previous years Jonny doesn’t put in the effort and flunks exam. This year Jonny doesn’t put in the effort, teacher overstates his expected grade and now he gets good grades. 

Do you have any experience of the CAG process?

As somebody who had to do it for his students, I can safely say we didn’t overstate anything but fairly calculated them from a variety of source material, all grades were thoroughly moderated and we had to robustly justify our decisions to SLT. 

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40 minutes ago, Bumble said:

Do you have any experience of the CAG process?

As somebody who had to do it for his students, I can safely say we didn’t overstate anything but fairly calculated them from a variety of source material, all grades were thoroughly moderated and we had to robustly justify our decisions to SLT. 

So will the ‘revised’ (teachers) grades be significantly higher than those achieved via exams in previous years? Are this years cohort significantly brighter than previous years? 
 

my next door neighbour is head of six form at a local school. He admitted to me that they had deliberately overstated. Your school may be different. 

Edited by AVB
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11 minutes ago, AVB said:

So will the ‘revised’ (teachers) grades be significantly higher than those achieved via exams in previous years? Are this years cohort significantly brighter than previous years? 
 

my next door neighbour is head of six form at a local school. He admitted to me that they had deliberately overstated. Your school may be different. 

Then shame on him for doing so. 
 

As far as I’m concerned, I awarded the grades that they would most likely have achieved should they have finished the academic year in the normal (non-COVID) manner. To have those grades reduced by by a government algorithm for no valid reason would have been utterly unfair to those who then miss out on college & uni places as a result. 

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2 minutes ago, Bumble said:

Then shame on him for doing so. 
 

As far as I’m concerned, I awarded the grades that they would most likely have achieved should they have finished the academic year in the normal (non-COVID) manner. To have those grades reduced by by a government algorithm for no valid reason would have been utterly unfair to those who then miss out on college & uni places as a result. 

And what about the questions I asked?  will the ‘revised’ (teachers) grades be significantly higher than those achieved via exams in previous years? If so are this years cohort significantly brighter than previous years? 
 

Unfortunately without the exams both the algo based model or teacher assessments have tainted this years ‘results’ 

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29 minutes ago, AVB said:

And what about the questions I asked?  will the ‘revised’ (teachers) grades be significantly higher than those achieved via exams in previous years? If so are this years cohort significantly brighter than previous years? 
 

Unfortunately without the exams both the algo based model or teacher assessments have tainted this years ‘results’ 


The teachers estimates is also an unfair system, as we can see in this very threat. 
 

Some teachers will undoubtedly have over estimated results, with the thought in the back of their heads that the boards were going to knock some of them down. 
 

Some schools who get funding based on achieving will estimate top grades (which have now been awarded) which makes the schools look good. 
 

Id be willing to bet that some schools which were failing and previously had poor results may have estimated slightly better results, which also makes them look good (they’d have to be stupid to predict grades that continued to make them look like under performing schools). 
 

Then some teachers will be straight cut by the book types, who will only give what they think the students deserve or would have achieved. Those students will then be disadvantaged when compared against the above situations where others have had their grades overestimated. 
 

Then a number of students who are gifted but lazy or not engaging with schools will potentially get estimated rubbish grades but would have achieved a lot better in exams. I was always estimated rubbish grades as I messed about the entire year as found the whole teaching experience so disengaging however was in top sets for most subjects and got some of the best results in some of the STEM subjects despite doing almost no revision. 
 

Also a number of students who are the classical teachers pet types will undoubtedly be given good predicted grades, whilst some students will get predicted lower because the teacher doesn’t like them. Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen as I worked teaching kids and some of them are little horrors! 🤣

 

The entire year is basically a write off. The universities should make everyone sit standard exams for their application and at least then some form of merit or ability will be taken into account. 

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All I know is that me and my friends in the "brain box" classes at school were always predicted a* and a's. We only ever achieved b's at most. My wife has a similar tale. A lot of teachers seemed to use the prediction of grades as self reflection of their ability to teach and not as an indication of reality. 

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7 hours ago, AVB said:

And what about the questions I asked?  will the ‘revised’ (teachers) grades be significantly higher than those achieved via exams in previous years? If so are this years cohort significantly brighter than previous years? 
 

That’s not something that can be answered until the results are released and can be analysed & compared. 

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The main issue is the algorithm was a blunt instrument. Go to a good performing school them you get the predicted grades, case in point my daughters school traditionally get good A level results so she didn't get moderated down.

It suck to be those one or two bright lights at a school that is A) improving or B) has done traditionally poorly as algorithm says no and you get busted down one or two grades. Getting students to resit in October is a joke as really all of them have done little or no prep work since March as they had a rough idea as to what they would get from two years worth of assessment so were basing their plans on that.

Lets be honest if your grades have been inflated well over your ability then Uni will sort that out in the first year and you will go bye bye anyway. From my experience of my daughters school this isn't the case and her results and that of her friends reflect their level of working and skill over the past two years. Those of her friends who have struggled in certain subjects final results from their teachers do really reflect their ability.

For those who dossed about for two years and expected to use their photographic memory or brilliant cramming skills to ace the exams I have no sympathy as for a change Karma is a bitch you got what you deserved. 

Edited by Zetter
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59 minutes ago, Zetter said:

The main issue is the algorithm was a blunt instrument. Go to a good performing school them you get the predicted grades, case in point my daughters school traditionally get good A level results so she didn't get moderated down.

It suck to be those one or two bright lights at a school that is A) improving or B) has done traditionally poorly as algorithm says no and you get busted down one or two grades. Getting students to resit in October is a joke as really all of them have done little or no prep work since March as they had a rough idea as to what they would get from two years worth of assessment so were basing their plans on that.

 

Therein lies the injustice of the algorithm method. The idea that bright students would be marked down because, historically, other students at that school haven’t done as well as them, is utterly horrific.

The CAG method, whilst not perfect, is making the best of a dire situation for students. 

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Any school that has  even a small (but significant) rise in performance at GCSE will be looked at quite closely by OFSTED. 

 

Sixth form data often fluctuates due to group sizes, but again OFSTED would be seeking evidence. 

 

I have a number of friends who’s children done quite well at A level but still “expect” higher grades. I suspect if they find out their school assessed grades the algorithm system may have generous to them.  

Edited by markm
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