Lyalvale English sporter

[Shotguneddy]

Thought I’d try and find some cheap 12 cartridges just to test and see what they were like compared to the 32 6 special pigeons I have been using and found some lyalvalve express clay load of 28g 7.5 ,  500 for 115£ and what a cracking discovery and what a cracking cartridge fired 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons and they were in a strong wind and high flying 50 yards + , a very very good cartridge. Strongly recommend a try

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I use 28g 7.5s most of the time, just add a bit more choke, £115 seem a bit expensive for 500, where did you buy from ? 

[sitsinhedges]

They were very heavy on the recoil when I used them.

[Taileron]

£115 for 500 English sporters is quite expensive buddy. My local dealer is doing them for £47.50 a slab, power red plastics for £48 and fibre for £49.

They did feel quite punchy when I tried them but left the gun really grubby inside, quite a bit of debris in the barrels.

[London Best]

I find all Lyalvale cartridges leave the bores quite dirty. I have a friend who won’t use them for that reason. I use little else and find them very good cartridges.

[washerboy]

I like their clay cartridges in 8s 

[enfieldspares]

I have ALWAYS found that the customer service at Lylvale since way back in the 1990s when Mumtaz Daftary was there it to be second to none. They are good people.

Edited August 24, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Taileron]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

I find all Lyalvale cartridges leave the bores quite dirty. I have a friend who won’t use them for that reason. I use little else and find them very good cartridges.

I only shoot power red in both wads, fibre tend to streak the bores more but don’t leave any of the dirty debris the English sporters did.

[London Best]

1 minute ago, Taileron said:

I only shoot power red in both wads, fibre tend to streak the bores more but don’t leave any of the dirty debris the English sporters did.

I can’t comment on other types as I only used to use Special Game but now prefer Supreme Game. They are dirty but very smooth to shoot and work well for me. I will not buy plastic wads.

[hofk]

Why use clay loads for pigeon ? might be cheap but 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons .

or Pigeon Power 29g 6s fibre £228/1000 proper cartridge for the job and might kill more and work out the same price.

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, hofk said:

Why use clay loads for pigeon ? might be cheap but 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons .

or Pigeon Power 29g 6s fibre £228/1000 proper cartridge for the job and might kill more and work out the same price.

What makes you think that because a cartridge is called pigeon power it will kill more pigeons than another cartridge which you perceive to be ‘clay specific’?  A cartridge is a cartridge. One gram of the next larger shot size will not make a bit of difference.

[hofk]

He was also saying about price the pigeon power was slightly cheaper all but a pound but a gram more and bigger shot which might just help on a bit further away birds, that was all.

 

[rbrowning2]

12 hours ago, London Best said:

What makes you think that because a cartridge is called pigeon power it will kill more pigeons than another cartridge which you perceive to be ‘clay specific’?  A cartridge is a cartridge. One gram of the next larger shot size will not make a bit of difference.

By your logic the cartridge manufactures have got it all wrong, they should be making just one lead shot cartridge in each gauge say 28gm of number 9 shot in a 2 1/2inch 12ga and the same in steel shot and that will cover everything from clays, pigeons, game and wild fowling. After all “A cartridge is a cartridge”!
 

[rbrowning2]

On 24/08/2020 at 07:08, Shotguneddy said:

Thought I’d try and find some cheap 12 cartridges just to test and see what they were like compared to the 32 6 special pigeons I have been using and found some lyalvalve express clay load of 28g 7.5 ,  500 for 115£ and what a cracking discovery and what a cracking cartridge fired 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons and they were in a strong wind and high flying 50 yards + , a very very good cartridge. Strongly recommend a try

Try some other makes, look for continental shot size 7 1/2 which will be 2.4mm or U.K. 7 and will be good for pigeons over decoys, personally find their are better choices than express cartridges in performance and price.

[London Best]

18 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

By your logic the cartridge manufactures have got it all wrong, they should be making just one lead shot cartridge in each gauge say 28gm of number 9 shot in a 2 1/2inch 12ga and the same in steel shot and that will cover everything from clays, pigeons, game and wild fowling. After all “A cartridge is a cartridge”!
 

Choice is a good thing. But within certain parameters the differences from one cartridge to another is minimal. For instance, for the OP’s application that day, anything from 23 gram 8’s to 32 gram 4’s would have made little difference to the bag. Obviously, extreme specialist applications are better served by more specific loadings. 

[Stonepark]

On 24/08/2020 at 07:08, Shotguneddy said:

Thought I’d try and find some cheap 12 cartridges just to test and see what they were like compared to the 32 6 special pigeons I have been using and found some lyalvalve express clay load of 28g 7.5 ,  500 for 115£ and what a cracking discovery and what a cracking cartridge fired 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons and they were in a strong wind and high flying 50 yards + , a very very good cartridge. Strongly recommend a try

Well done, flighting pigeons is challenging.

LE Sporters are a decent inexpensive loading and when I last used them came in at 28g of 7 1\4, rather than a true 7 1\2 and patterned well on the board.

You have seen that using a 'clay' cartridge on pigeons which are a lot smaller than pheasants,  is feasible and that pattern density of the smaller shot enables it to be effective on smaller game such as pigeons even though each individual pellet carries less energy.

 

[Smokersmith]

My local supplier (Cecil Coates) has been selling his own branded shells loaded by Express … basically the Power Gold recipe in a non-frilly case & box which he brands C&M Pro. They've been great on clays, and I've managed to get him to load some in 28g fibre wad in a true English 6.5's (2.5mm). At around 50 a slab, ideal for woodies and most of the driven partridge I'll shoot this year.

[rbrowning2]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Choice is a good thing. But within certain parameters the differences from one cartridge to another is minimal. For instance, for the OP’s application that day, anything from 23 gram 8’s to 32 gram 4’s would have made little difference to the bag. Obviously, extreme specialist applications are better served by more specific loadings. 

Think it could have made a big difference as the op states they were 50yards plus I think your 23gram 8’s would run out of both energy and pattern density by 50yards plus so to be certain of a clean kill and increase the probability of a kill, think 36gm 5’s 2.8mm or continental 6’s 2.7mm  would be my choice at 50yards plus pigeons, at decoy distances Is different 28grams of 7’s 2.4mm or my preference 6 1/2‘s 2.5mm.

3 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

My local supplier (Cecil Coates) has been selling his own branded shells loaded by Express … basically the Power Gold recipe in a non-frilly case & box which he brands C&M Pro. They've been great on clays, and I've managed to get him to load some in 28g fibre wad in a true English 6.5's (2.5mm). At around 50 a slab, ideal for woodies and most of the driven partridge I'll shoot this year.

+1 

[old'un]

44 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Well done, flighting pigeons is challenging.

LE Sporters are a decent inexpensive loading and when I last used them came in at 28g of 7 1\4, rather than a true 7 1\2 and patterned well on the board.

You have seen that using a 'clay' cartridge on pigeons which are a lot smaller than pheasants,  is feasible and that pattern density of the smaller shot enables it to be effective on smaller game such as pigeons even though each individual pellet carries less energy.

 

Been using 28g 7.5 English Sporter for a few years now, soft to shoot and kill well at range on pigeons and blacks, I was supersized at the number of pellets striking the birds at 35-40 yards.

[JDog]

On 24/08/2020 at 07:08, Shotguneddy said:

Thought I’d try and find some cheap 12 cartridges just to test and see what they were like compared to the 32 6 special pigeons I have been using and found some lyalvalve express clay load of 28g 7.5 ,  500 for 115£ and what a cracking discovery and what a cracking cartridge fired 49 cartridges for 22 pigeons and they were in a strong wind and high flying 50 yards + , a very very good cartridge. Strongly recommend a try

What chokes did you have in your gun?

I have long considered using 7.5 shot but it may be less effective in quarter choke compared to three quarters choke. My guns are fixed chokes.

[Farmboy91]

I tried the 29g no.6 pigeon power in the past but couldn't get on with them at all and not being able to source Express locally I haven't gone out of my way to try anything else of theirs although alot seem to have a good word to say about the English sporter. 

I think blue diamond are an excellent clay and decoy load, anyone used these and the Express to give a fair comparison?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I think there is to much emphasis on cartridges for pigeon shooting, now game dealers wanting steel shot pigeon until lead is truly banned I shall continue to use but I do not shoot that much or sell any, Edy found a cartridge to his liking although £115 seems a tad high we do not know where purchased or chokes used, at this moment I am using some Comp X 7.5s, now bearing in mind back in the 1960/70s it was only 6 shot Eley most used until some foreign imports came in that we used for clays, being cheaper it became our main pigeon cartridge, most  side by sides eg AYA  yeoman had half/ full choke, those foreign clay cartridges sort of patterned 1/4/3/4, fast forward today I now use 7.5s any brand that just cart selling cheap or bin end, I think we have passed the very cheap prices, ( remember the Kent's?) My average is not so good now 🤔 anyone using 7.5s my chokes are now 1/4 3/4 in theory improved/half ? over decoys maximum range 40 yards, saying the above its not so much the numbers just being out in fields👍

[Stonepark]

4 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

I think blue diamond are an excellent clay and decoy load, anyone used these and the Express to give a fair comparison?

Of the two, Blue diamond fibre are the better but slightly more expensive.

Last ones I had used ran 350 pellets/oz so almost a true No 7 UK, diamond shot patterend very well.

[Farmboy91]

34 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Of the two, Blue diamond fibre are the better but slightly more expensive.

Last ones I had used ran 350 pellets/oz so almost a true No 7 UK, diamond shot patterend very well.

Thank you, to be honest I never put them through the O/U but through the auto they were fine. 

Next O/U I'm going to go for something a bit heavier so the recoil shouldn't be an issue. They always felt a good quality cartridge.

[Shotguneddy]

On 24/08/2020 at 07:44, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I use 28g 7.5s most of the time, just add a bit more choke, £115 seem a bit expensive for 500, where did you buy from ? 

Just cartridges but that’s with  15 deliverey on top