high streets

[armsid]

Watching the old programs The Sweeny (nostalgia) you can see busy high streets bustling with people going about their daily activities shopping browsing etc. then fast forwards 40 yrs.If you are old enough (no disrespect meant) it should be possible to see why the high street has failed..Look at the jobs and industry lost in your local area compared to 40 yrs ago and you see the reason for the demise answers please 

[GingerCat]

The Internet killed the high streets. Why have high costs when you can run a store online and charge a little bit cheaper. Saves the customers costs getting there too amongst many other things. If they don't move with the times they go the same way as woolworths and blockbuster. 

[Walker570]

8 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

The Internet killed the high streets. Why have high costs when you can run a store online and charge a little bit cheaper. Saves the customers costs getting there too amongst many other things. If they don't move with the times they go the same way as woolworths and blockbuster. 

Yes, definitely the main reason. Our local town seems to survive on coffee shops and charity shops.

[Rob85]

Big brand names and big shops are suffering, apart from that I've noticed a lot of people in my area are shopping local now for a lot of grocery stuff. The farm shops and fruit and veg shops are doing a roaring trade where I am, certainly beats the "fresh" produce in Tesco with its regimentally straight carrots and tasteless spuds

[marsh man]

3 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Yes, definitely the main reason. Our local town seems to survive on coffee shops and charity shops.

I now find it depressing when we need to go up town , most of the shops are now shut and that include some charity shops , what few people go to the bank have to wait outside until someone call you in , as an instance for buying online , I wanted to renew my sun lounge roof and nobody local had what I wanted , a couple of places said they could get it  and when I checked the online price the cheapest one was nearly £500 more than I could have got it for , so I ordered it online , through the virus they said it would take up to three weeks to arrive , I then got the dispatched notice and it came on the last day of there predicted time , a friendly and helpful driver and was well pleased with the service .

Then I had another brainwave , while the roof was off I could replace my old worn out wooden tingle tiles with cladding boards , once again I enquired locally and one well known firm said they could get them in around three weeks , as the carpenter was tied up for a couple of weeks I paid and ordered them , up to now I still haven't got my boards and they were ordered nearly six weeks ago , you can see why people are now buying most of there building supplies on line

[fern01]

I agree the Internet is the main cause of the High Streets demise.

The Councils which have deliberately reduced on street parking and in some places charge £7 - 8 a day to park have made a bad situation worse.

Add the Parking wardens with quotas to fill  it makes going to Town a pain.

 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, fern01 said:

I agree the Internet is the main cause of the High Streets demise.

The Councils which have deliberately reduced on street parking and in some places charge £7 - 8 a day to park have made a bad situation worse.

Add the Parking wardens with quotas to fill  it makes going to Town a pain.

 

It’s not just that. It’s the council tax and business rates in town centres that are crippling. 
 

My mate looked to open a shop in Bridgend where the town centre is absolutely on its knees. I remember him saying that council wanted something like almost £30,000 a year in fees before he even paid to kit it out etc. 
 

He packed the idea in pronto... instead half the shops on the road sit empty going derelict.

[JTaylor91]

7 hours ago, Rob85 said:

Big brand names and big shops are suffering, apart from that I've noticed a lot of people in my area are shopping local now for a lot of grocery stuff. The farm shops and fruit and veg shops are doing a roaring trade where I am, certainly beats the "fresh" produce in Tesco with its regimentally straight carrots and tasteless spuds

I’m always wary of “farm shops” I used to work at a place that would sell wholesale fruit and veg. All the “farm shops” within maybe a 10 mile radius came to us for their stock, the majority of which came from abroad. There was only one in the area that was supplied directly from any farm and that was only the carrots and spuds. 

[Dave at kelton]

There is no single factor but a perfect storm of internet, large multiples, superstores and out of town shopping. Add to that the changes forced on us all by Covid and there is little prospect of change. This generation wants convenience be that one stop shop at Asda, home delivery or internet order from home.

Nostalgia has no place in regeneration of town centres. You have to get people back in by creating housing opportunities that will themselves create demand for services including retail.

[yates]

9 hours ago, Rob85 said:

Big brand names and big shops are suffering, apart from that I've noticed a lot of people in my area are shopping local now for a lot of grocery stuff. The farm shops and fruit and veg shops are doing a roaring trade where I am, certainly beats the "fresh" produce in Tesco with its regimentally straight carrots and tasteless spuds

👍

[discobob]

There is another reason - the rise in commuting for work because of centralization of a lot of jobs into the city metropolitan area. I bet in the old days it was 80% local employment and 20% within 30 miles - whereas now it will be 20% local and 80% within 60 miles.

Perhaps with CV and the rise of homeworking we may start to see improved local high street once this is all over but I fear that the damage has been done and there isn't enough left on the high street to attract people. I feel that councils need to be imaginative and perhaps look at different ways of doing rates along with the parking scenario.

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

There is no single factor but a perfect storm of internet, large multiples, superstores and out of town shopping. Add to that the changes forced on us all by Covid and there is little prospect of change. This generation wants convenience be that one stop shop at Asda, home delivery or internet order from home.

Nostalgia has no place in regeneration of town centres. You have to get people back in by creating housing opportunities that will themselves create demand for services including retail.

Sums it up well for me.

High Streets became too commercialised with either retail or office premises during the day and then had to rely on a night time economy of pubs and restaurants to maintain footfall.  There is no community as such.

When you remove any of these components it all starts to crumble, quite literally, as demand drops so does the ability to upkeep.

Get communities back into the centre of towns through innovative housing models and rebuild the demand that way.

[discobob]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

Nostalgia has no place in regeneration of town centres. You have to get people back in by creating housing opportunities that will themselves create demand for services including retail.

In our town they are building like anything and have been over the past 10 years. Currently 200+ houses being built just up the road from us, OP granted for 500. Meanwhile the high street is getting less and less with the only growth being in hair dressers and charity shops. The council is only concerned with the increased income from the council tax and rather than use that to offset business rates they want to employ their cousin as outreach workers etc....

[washerboy]

Phone shops, charity shops, primark. Plenty of coffee shops, discount sports and fashion shop. That's about it for s****horpe. I live in thorne between goole and Doncaster it has nothing, 3 supermarkets and a McDonald's. One bank, its like a ghost town. I haven't shopped there in 20 yrs. Parking is a joke, no market in the market square. 

 

[Dougy]

The biggest impact on town center shops is the likes of Sainsbury's,  Morrisons and Tesco style super markets being built on the towns outskirts. That started to impact on the smaller individual style shops. People started to change their shopping habits, another impact to town center shopping was the 7 day week shopping and late opening. 

I asked our local town council if they thought about having an 8 day week to increase the weekly takings in the town center shops.  

[itchy trigger]

in the early 70's I went to work for a thriving local family butcher, terraced corner shop on a main road junction, old fashioned, very busy little shop, council decided to put double yellow lines for 50 to 100 yards on both sides of the roads, after a lot of objections they did, 1/3 taken off the weekly takings straight away..

I bought the butchers when the guy retired, so can speak from experience, each out of town superstore will take 10% from your weekly take, there were none when I bought the shop, they built some of the first and biggest within a shout from me

for me yellow lines and pedestrianisation killed the town centres before the internet was heard of 

Edited September 11, 2020 by itchy trigger
changed wording

[AVB]

I posted on this recently. I live equidistant between two old market towns, Bishop’s Stortford and Saffron Walden. BS is dead, no market, coffee shops and charity shops only. SW seems to be booming, thriving market, lots of independent shops, a couple of butchers, fishmongers etc. I know where I prefer to shop. 
 

the demographics of the towns are similar, although BS has expanded more over the years, so I would be interested to know why there is such a big difference. Both have the same constraints on parking, both have traditionally been Conservative councils. 

[discobob]

4 minutes ago, AVB said:

I posted on this recently. I live equidistant between two old market towns, Bishop’s Stortford and Saffron Walden. BS is dead, no market, coffee shops and charity shops only. SW seems to be booming, thriving market, lots of independent shops, a couple of butchers, fishmongers etc. I know where I prefer to shop. 
 

the demographics of the towns are similar, although BS has expanded more over the years, so I would be interested to know why there is such a big difference. Both have the same constraints on parking, both have traditionally been Conservative councils. 

Catchment area??? SW has a naturally bigger catchment area than BS - and has been able to maintain that diversity in its shops?? whereas BS has a smaller catchment and as it hasn't been able to maintain such diversity people have gone to SW for it - and starts the cycle of decline??

[Dougy]

Burton councilors decided in their infinite wisdom to change the market, to improve it, up-date it and make it more enticing. 

 

They did that alright, 1st they closed the fish market, then moved the market stalls all around the town precinct then started the up-dating of the old market hall. Nearly 50% of the market traders never returned, now it looks like a version of Midsomers village rummage sale in a storm. 

 

Now its dead as a Dodo,,, well done to the brainless over paid thoughtless plonkers Burton council. 

Just now, Dougy said:

Burton councilors decided in their infinite wisdom to change the market, to improve it, up-date it and make it more enticing. 

 

They did that alright, 1st they closed the fish market, then moved the market stalls all around the town precinct then started the up-dating of the old market hall. Nearly 50% of the market traders never returned, now it looks like a version of Midsomers village rummage sale in a storm. 

 

Now its dead as a Dodo,,, well done to the brainless over paid thoughtless plonkers Burton council. 

I almost forgot, they replaced the outdoor market with a skating rink that you wouldnt have space to swing a lollipop stick let alone a cat. 

That lasted all of a couple of months. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

Interesting topic;

My local 'market town' has like most, suffered a decline.  I used to know one or two of the local shopkeepers quite well and their views were of particular interest.  My local town has several large thriving industrial estates on the outskirts and 20 years ago many of the employees on the industrial estates used to 'nip into town' at lunchtime for banking, post office, shopping, sandwich (grocery top ups, off license, magazines, tobacco etc.)

1. Parking was free for the first 1/2 hour on street or 1 hour in car parks - and always adequately available
2. There weren't any out of town stores nearby
3. Banking 'on line' was uncommon and most people used to visit the bank/building society branch regularly.

Then what happened was;

1. The 'free' parking was removed (though street is still free for 1/2 hour, but much reduced number of spaces and soon to go altogether)
2. There are several 'out of town' stores (Morrisons, Aldi, M&S at BP garage, CoOp) - all of which have free parking
3. The 8+ banks and building societies have been reduced to three - and on line is widely available.

What the shopkeepers I knew said was that the 'free' parking had originally been allowed by the local council - as it was effectively paid for by the business rates paid by the shops - and was used as an excuse for the (what they considered high) rates levied on small shops.  There was a major campaign by the small shopkeepers to retain teh free initial period for parking ......... but (allegedly) the council wouldn't listen and said ALL parking must be paid for ...... to meet emission/air quality targets.  The free parking went and rates didn't come down .......  and almost no one 'nips into town at lunchtime' these days - many empty shops, half the number of pubs, interspersed with charity shops.  Even the Greggs is closing now as no one goes there and also some of the expensive coffee shops are closing.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Surprised you still have 3 banks!

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surprised you still have 3 banks!

Lloyds, HSBS and Halifax at present.  We used to also have Barclays, Nat West, TSB, C&G, Nationwide, Bradford and Bingley, Abbey National and probably others ....

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Lloyds, HSBS and Halifax at present.  We used to also have Barclays, Nat West, TSB, C&G, Nationwide, Bradford and Bingley, Abbey National and probably others ....

Not many left in Stamford and none in the village.

[Scully]

My home town was once the County town of Westmorland, with Assizes, a Police station, a thriving weekly market, a Dairy and cheese factory which employed most of the town at one time or another, and a high street where you could buy everything a family needed, including nine pubs, six hotels and nine garages and filling stations. 

First came the bypass, which meant no passing trade and spelled the death knell for five of the filling stations and four of the garages and three hotels, plus one of the three newsagents. 
Subsequent shortsightedness ( and greed ) by council members who wanted the town to remain a quaint little market town, saw several big business concerns turned down, which as a result located to Kendal and elsewhere. 
A supermarket opening up 12 miles away saw the slow demise of three greengrocers, and now that town has at least a dozen, and so it goes on.
An Irish company bought the dairy 23 years ago and promptly closed it ( they just wanted the milk ) with all the ensuing effects this sort of thing has on families. 
Another company ( which became a huge national concern ) started by a local man, was denied the chance to expand, so moved his entire concern to Carlisle.
There are now four garages in town, only one serves fuel. Four hotels have closed, as have four pubs. 
There are charity shops and vacant shops, but despite all this, and the internet, the town is doing ok. I can’t say it’s thriving, but it’s a big improvement on what it was some years ago.

The biggest threat to the town, is by two greedy landlord property owners, who own most of the commercial ( and an awful lot of private dwellings ) who seem simply intent on buying properties but spending nothing whatsoever on their upkeep. 

Edited to add, both our banks have closed, one is a fabulous butchers the other is being developed into flats. We still have a PO. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Scully
Addition

[Stour-boy]

9 hours ago, itchy trigger said:

in the early 70's I went to work for a thriving local family butcher, terraced corner shop on a main road junction, old fashioned, very busy little shop, council decided to put double yellow lines for 50 to 100 yards on both sides of the roads, after a lot of objections they did, 1/3 taken off the weekly takings straight away..

I bought the butchers when the guy retired, so can speak from experience, each out of town superstore will take 10% from your weekly take, there were none when I bought the shop, they built some of the first and biggest within a shout from me

for me yellow lines and pedestrianisation killed the town centres before the internet was heard of 

I fully agree that it kicked of with yellow lines and traffic wardens, car park charging ,that was the thin end of the wedge,

By-By High Street. 😞