rapid .25 Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 12 hours ago, Scully said: I have read them. Are you stating that shooting was included in the ban until BASC lobbied to have it made exempt? I'd give up if I were you scully you seem to be getting nowhere 😁😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, rapid .25 said: I'd give up if I were you scully you seem to be getting nowhere 😁😁 I am also waiting to see a reply from basc because the government have NEVER listened to them so why would they start now and during this current mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 England Hockey have been advising clubs across the country on what to do during Covid. They've confirmed the recent position due to the rule of 6. They don't have people gunning them down as glory hunters!!! BASC need to get more things right, and are brushing some very serious threats to shooting under the carpet, but I think some of the mindsets here are a bit antagonistic to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Shooting did not appear in the list by magic - it was there due to lobbying. It did not say on the list, despite opposition, but for lobbying. Those that say otherwise … perhaps they have evidence from Parliament to back it up? Interested to hear what the other issues that are allegedly being brushed under the carpet are ta David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, David BASC said: other issues that are allegedly being brushed under the carpet are PM inbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, David BASC said: Interested to hear what the other issues that are allegedly being brushed under the carpet are ta David two words LEAD BAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Lead shot has not been banned apart form on some wetland sites and from some species as I as sure you know BASC has no power to ban lead shot There is increasing pressure from the EU to ban lead shot almost immediately, that BASC is opposing, as you can see on the BASC web site BASC and others are asking for a gradual phase out of lead over 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 I just want to make a general (e.g. not specific to this thread and those posting on it) observation. BASC have been posting updates on and off on PW for several years, and inevitably these have attracted an amount of justified challenge, along with a certain amount of regretable axe-grinding. BASC is not perfect, and I personally have been far from happy with some more recent developments to the extent I am no longer a member, but at least their reps are trying to engage constructively with us. It needs to be remembered that during a period in the last 18 to 24 months there was a time where updates were not being posted, and those BASC reps who are members on here were sledged for not having done so. Now they are posting again and we are back to normal regarding the reception they are getting. I know feelings are strong, but please try to debate without it being personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 hours ago, David BASC said: Shooting did not appear in the list by magic - it was there due to lobbying. It did not say on the list, despite opposition, but for lobbying. Those that say otherwise … perhaps they have evidence from Parliament to back it up? Interested to hear what the other issues that are allegedly being brushed under the carpet are ta David So are you claiming that shooting was on a list of organised sporting events which would not be allowed to take place under the new legislation, which came into force last Monday, and BASC lobbied to have it made exempt? I don’t understand the sentence ‘It did not say on the list, despite opposition, but for lobbying.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 BASC lobbied to make sure it was on the list , lobbied to make sure it remained on the list - simple as that. This started many months ago with pigeon shooting and other forms of pest control and deer management too and extended to game shooting as we came towards the game season. All this has been reported on the BASC website and in emails to members, and we have tried to keep non members up to speed with what we are doing by posting on forums and social media too. Glad to say other organisations joined in the lobbying too. There was opposition to it being included as has been widely reported in the media, which we have also been dealing with this week. But as some have claimed this did not happen due to lobbying by BASC et al or that it would have happened anyway, is this just personal opinion or have you actually checked this with Parliament? Edit for correction , it was a typo, say should have been stay - maybe that's where the confusion is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, David BASC said: BASC lobbied to make sure it was on the list , lobbied to make sure it remained on the list - simple as that. This started many months ago with pigeon shooting and other forms of pest control and deer management too and extended to game shooting as we came towards the game season. All this has been reported on the BASC website and in emails to members, and we have tried to keep non members up to speed with what we are doing by posting on forums and social media too. Glad to say other organisations joined in the lobbying too. There was opposition to it being included as has been widely reported in the media, which we have also been dealing with this week. But as some have claimed this did not happen due to lobbying by BASC et al or that it would have happened anyway, is this just personal opinion or have you actually checked this with Parliament? Edit for correction , it was a typo, say should have been stay - maybe that's where the confusion is? Thankyou. As I said, shooting was already exempt because it was never on a list of those sporting events affected by last Monday’s legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Scully said: Thankyou. As I said, shooting was already exempt because it was never on a list of those sporting events affected by last Monday’s legislation. yes, and by having that pointed out to the public, this is what you are now getting on social media. Some people are now thinking that shooting is getting preferential treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: yes, and by having that pointed out to the public, this is what you are now getting on social media. Some people are now thinking that shooting is getting preferential treatment. I understand your point, but don’t really care what others think, as they would be against shooting regardless. Shooting is deemed exempt because Mondays legislation deems it exempt, and not for any other reason. It is an organised sporting event ( even the antis have to admit it’s a ‘sport’.....field sport, or blood sport as they prefer to call it ) and as such isn’t effected by the legislation, just as football, cricket etc. It’s as simple as that. I was discussing this today with a woman I know who provides the food for our big commercial shoot. She is unaffected also, and will be supplying the food as usual; the only people affected are the guns, and that is only by the social distancing aspect. The beaters are employed to participate in an organised sporting event, so unless I’m mistaken are not affected in the same manner as others prone to gather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: yes, and by having that pointed out to the public, this is what you are now getting on social media. Some people are now thinking that shooting is getting preferential treatment. Those will be the peeps too thick or biassed to comprehend that most shooting is done in very wide open fresh air whilst gardens in cities will not have such UV cleansed air with fresh oxygen from trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scully said: I understand your point, but don’t really care what others think, as they would be against shooting regardless. Shooting is deemed exempt because Mondays legislation deems it exempt, and not for any other reason. It is an organised sporting event ( even the antis have to admit it’s a ‘sport’.....field sport, or blood sport as they prefer to call it ) and as such isn’t effected by the legislation, just as football, cricket etc. It’s as simple as that. I was discussing this today with a woman I know who provides the food for our big commercial shoot. She is unaffected also, and will be supplying the food as usual; the only people affected are the guns, and that is only by the social distancing aspect. The beaters are employed to participate in an organised sporting event, so unless I’m mistaken are not affected in the same manner as others prone to gather. I fully agree with you, it was always covered under the organised sporting event exemption. I also see why some thought it necessary to have that confirmed, what with police forces making laws up as they see fit. I also see your point about the antis, but it is not just them reading it, the image wasn't on a anti shooting page, it was on a news story about stricter lockdown measures, and with the public's general mood at the moment and the antis pushing a shooting is getting preferential treatment, it doesn't look good, even though it is false. Edited September 17, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: I fully agree with you, it was always covered under the organised sporting event exemption. I also see why some thought it necessary to have that confirmed, what with police forces making laws up as they see fit. I also see your point about the antis, but it is not just them reading it, the image wasn't on a anti shooting page, it was on a news story about stricter lockdown measures, and with the public's general mood at the moment and the antis pushing a shooting is geeting preferential treatment, it doesn't look good, even though it is false. I see your point, but the same could be said about any organised sporting event. It’s also false that only posh Tories shoot. It all depends where ones bias is based I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry2016 Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 14/09/2020 at 19:43, Scully said: BASC didn’t get ‘ shooting specified’ or exempt from Covid regulations; shooting was never included. Hi Scully, Shooting was not on the list of exempt sports, I would agree that as an organised event it could still go ahead however this means we are interpreting the legislation. Shooting is now listed, and when you click the link on the covid government website it takes you straight to the BASC covid guidance. This is due to the work of BASC. it is surely no coincidence that the guidance directed to by the government is BASCs website. Whilst we could argue that it was exempt (to which I would agree) it was not on the list, this just gives us as shooters belt and braces as it is now specified. The very reaction of the anti shooting lobbyist shows that it was an achievement .. For this i think the organisations deserve credit .. Best Wishes Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Scully, Big Thanks for pointing out this issue to the members. Zapp, thank you for highlighting the minimal BSAC content on this site.... and I reckon that will be a fair representation of its minimalist representation of its' contributors interests and wishes. C O G - do you mind if I ask if your recent flurry of activity on PW might be the result of a fall in membership income and grumbling at t'Mill ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Shooting was not on the original list of exempted sports publicised last week. The list was amended to ensure shooting was included as an exempted activity after interventions by BASC, other organisations and MPs over the weekend. The old list was then taken down and a new list with shooting included replaced it on Monday 14th. The Government’s decision to allow shooting to continue in its current format in England was the right one. Like other team sports, shooting is able to operate under social distancing guidance, and its benefits to the rural economy and well-being makes its inclusion significant. Most grateful for the appreciation in various posts in this thread for the work of pro-shooting MPs and BASC staff over the weekend to ensure that shooting is on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Terry2016 said: Hi Scully, Shooting was not on the list of exempt sports, I would agree that as an organised event it could still go ahead however this means we are interpreting the legislation. Shooting is now listed, and when you click the link on the covid government website it takes you straight to the BASC covid guidance. This is due to the work of BASC. it is surely no coincidence that the guidance directed to by the government is BASCs website. Whilst we could argue that it was exempt (to which I would agree) it was not on the list, this just gives us as shooters belt and braces as it is now specified. The very reaction of the anti shooting lobbyist shows that it was an achievement .. For this i think the organisations deserve credit .. Best Wishes Terry Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Shooting was not on the original list of exempted sports publicised last week. The list was amended to ensure shooting was included as an exempted activity after interventions by BASC, other organisations and MPs over the weekend. The old list was then taken down and a new list with shooting included replaced it on Monday 14th. The Government’s decision to allow shooting to continue in its current format in England was the right one. Like other team sports, shooting is able to operate under social distancing guidance, and its benefits to the rural economy and well-being makes its inclusion significant. Most grateful for the appreciation in various posts in this thread for the work of pro-shooting MPs and BASC staff over the weekend to ensure that shooting is on the list. I wasn’t aware there was a list, as it was stated last week prior to the legislation that organised sporting events wouldn’t be affected. I’ve done a few searches ( not thoroughly admittedly ) on relevant Gov websites and can find plenty regarding what we should do while participating in organised sports, but cannot find a list of those organised sports exempted by the Gov. Do you have a link? 1 hour ago, Terry2016 said: Hi Scully, Shooting was not on the list of exempt sports, I would agree that as an organised event it could still go ahead however this means we are interpreting the legislation. Shooting is now listed, and when you click the link on the covid government website it takes you straight to the BASC covid guidance. This is due to the work of BASC. it is surely no coincidence that the guidance directed to by the government is BASCs website. Whilst we could argue that it was exempt (to which I would agree) it was not on the list, this just gives us as shooters belt and braces as it is now specified. The very reaction of the anti shooting lobbyist shows that it was an achievement .. For this i think the organisations deserve credit .. Best Wishes Terry Thanks Terry, but I’m not sure anything needed interpreting for the reasons I’ve already given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, harkom said: Scully, Big Thanks for pointing out this issue to the members. Zapp, thank you for highlighting the minimal BSAC content on this site.... and I reckon that will be a fair representation of its minimalist representation of its' contributors interests and wishes. C O G - do you mind if I ask if your recent flurry of activity on PW might be the result of a fall in membership income and grumbling at t'Mill ? As above all points 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 There is nothing wrong with lobbying, but claiming credit afterwards may be unwise. The statement that “… after substantial work by BASC and other organisations with government ministers and pro-shooting MPs, shooting has been included in the activities that are exempt from the rule of six” concentrates on the political lobbying and provides no background information. It was inevitably going to be interpreted in some quarters as “Toffs lobby their friends in high places and the Tory government allows game shooting to continue, while the lives of ordinary people remain severely restricted”. It might have been better to omit the bragging and just say something on the lines of: “We explained how shooting, as an open-air activity in which participants are widely spaced, is extremely unlikely to result in transmission of coronavirus, and government agreed that restrictions are not required.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 I think BASCs new slogan on this forum should read 'damned if we do, damned if we dont' Its baffling why so many here are so bitter towards them. Feel free to start your own Org and see how well you do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said: I think BASCs new slogan on this forum should read 'damned if we do, damned if we dont' Its baffling why so many here are so bitter towards them. Feel free to start your own Org and see how well you do.... there’s a easy solution when people ask a straight question give a straight answer instead of the sad old bashing claim act give no cause you get no complaints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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