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spurs 14
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Hi all , long story short , after many years of it being turned down a developer has got permission to build a tiny bedsit bungalow in what was a car park to the rear of us 

 now it’s half up and according to the plans  they have put doors in the wrong place , opening roof windows x4 open plan roof trusses , looks like they may put in an attic style bedroom but after complaining to planning office all this has been let slide !!! 

We have now discovered it’s just over half a meter too tall , told planning who told enforcement who told developer and that was last we heard ! They even said in emails it’s a breech , but now we get an email saying it’s been remeasured using an agreed ground level and suddenly it’s ok and passed ! How ? There is nowhere they could measure it on site to get to that level , half a meter , waiting to hear back from planning to see where this piece of ground is but so far nothing 

 anyone can they do this , how far from a building can they measure , I’d have thought you had to measure beside the building as surely with damp course etc that’s the height from the ground ? 

 Any help lads would be appreciated.       

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26 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Hi all , long story short , after many years of it being turned down a developer has got permission to build a tiny bedsit bungalow in what was a car park to the rear of us 

 now it’s half up and according to the plans  they have put doors in the wrong place , opening roof windows x4 open plan roof trusses , looks like they may put in an attic style bedroom but after complaining to planning office all this has been let slide !!! 

We have now discovered it’s just over half a meter too tall , told planning who told enforcement who told developer and that was last we heard ! They even said in emails it’s a breech , but now we get an email saying it’s been remeasured using an agreed ground level and suddenly it’s ok and passed ! How ? There is nowhere they could measure it on site to get to that level , half a meter , waiting to hear back from planning to see where this piece of ground is but so far nothing 

 anyone can they do this , how far from a building can they measure , I’d have thought you had to measure beside the building as surely with damp course etc that’s the height from the ground ? 

 Any help lads would be appreciated.       

Sounds like a ‘brown envelope’ job. 

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4 minutes ago, AVB said:

Sounds like a ‘brown envelope’ job. 

This

We experienced it with two houses built up the lane - originally had to re-instate the lane back to condition and put in a passing place. This mysteriously disappeared  when we questioned planning after the houses. One of the "builders" bought land, built, moved in for 6 months and then sold - unfortunately he got caught by the 2008 crash and the house ended up being repossessed and auctioned off at less than half the price they put it up for - so he knew the dodgy ones I reckon!

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36 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Hi all , long story short , after many years of it being turned down a developer has got permission to build a tiny bedsit bungalow in what was a car park to the rear of us 

 now it’s half up and according to the plans  they have put doors in the wrong place , opening roof windows x4 open plan roof trusses , looks like they may put in an attic style bedroom but after complaining to planning office all this has been let slide !!! 

We have now discovered it’s just over half a meter too tall , told planning who told enforcement who told developer and that was last we heard ! They even said in emails it’s a breech , but now we get an email saying it’s been remeasured using an agreed ground level and suddenly it’s ok and passed ! How ? There is nowhere they could measure it on site to get to that level , half a meter , waiting to hear back from planning to see where this piece of ground is but so far nothing 

 anyone can they do this , how far from a building can they measure , I’d have thought you had to measure beside the building as surely with damp course etc that’s the height from the ground ? 

 Any help lads would be appreciated.       

Short answer is yes they can. Building is an imprecise science at the best of times. give or take .5m from an undefined ground level (probably never part of the APP). Hard therefore to say that its .5m too tall. 

I worked on the development of the bridge between the Hyatt Hotel and the International Convention Centre Birmingham. The bridge was made to plan but the ICC was built 2m further away from the drawing result the bridge was made too short.

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Sadly, corruption is endemic in this respect, and all councils are up to it. My local council have recently given the go ahead to 243 new homes on agricultural land (very prone to flooding) at the edge of town. This despite the proposal being turned down three times for various reasons including increased traffic, no facility for extra drainage, not enough affordable housing, no extra facilities and so on. Lo and behold, the plans were submitted for a fourth time, there was massive objection, it went to committee (again) and the very people who have turned it down three previous times suddenly unanimously approve the (unchanged) plans. No one does anything to stop it, so it will carry on. Banana Republic Britain. 

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Slightly off topic. I haven’t a lot of experience with planning but a few years ago my application for an extension was rejected. I discussed with my architect the approach we should take when we met the planning officer. However, that all went Pete Tong when the planning officer turned out to be a young, beautiful, blond woman wearing a low cut top. We just sat there making no eye contact, nodding and agreeing to whatever demands she made. 

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58 minutes ago, adzyvilla said:

Sadly, corruption is endemic in this respect, and all councils are up to it. My local council have recently given the go ahead to 243 new homes on agricultural land (very prone to flooding) at the edge of town. This despite the proposal being turned down three times for various reasons including increased traffic, no facility for extra drainage, not enough affordable housing, no extra facilities and so on. Lo and behold, the plans were submitted for a fourth time, there was massive objection, it went to committee (again) and the very people who have turned it down three previous times suddenly unanimously approve the (unchanged) plans. No one does anything to stop it, so it will carry on. Banana Republic Britain. 

I trained as a planner and worked in and with planning, all my working life, across seven Local Authorities and at a Central Govt Ievel. I did not once come across a case of corruption in planning, so I hardly think that what may occur at the margins can be seen in any way as endemic. What is more likely to happen is a change in guidance or a trade off in policy terms. 

Edited by oowee
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Thanks guys some good points , it just seems in the replies from the clown at planning just seems to be changing answers and trying to close it , at the end of most email# it’s.         Therefore the matter is closed and no further action can be taken !           Not for me its not ! it’s three quarters built but the way they have carried on I just want to be a pain in the **** 

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

I trained as a planner and worked in and with planning, all my working life, across seven Local Authorities and at a Central Govt Ievel. I did not once come across a case of corruption in planning, so I hardly think that what may occur at the margins can be seen in any way as endemic. What is more likely to happen is a change in guidance or a trade off in policy terms. 

Wow. I take it all back. There's definitely no corruption in local planning. 

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5 hours ago, spurs 14 said:

Hi all , long story short , after many years of it being turned down a developer has got permission to build a tiny bedsit bungalow in what was a car park to the rear of us 

 now it’s half up and according to the plans  they have put doors in the wrong place , opening roof windows x4 open plan roof trusses , looks like they may put in an attic style bedroom but after complaining to planning office all this has been let slide !!! 

We have now discovered it’s just over half a meter too tall , told planning who told enforcement who told developer and that was last we heard ! They even said in emails it’s a breech , but now we get an email saying it’s been remeasured using an agreed ground level and suddenly it’s ok and passed ! How ? There is nowhere they could measure it on site to get to that level , half a meter , waiting to hear back from planning to see where this piece of ground is but so far nothing 

 anyone can they do this , how far from a building can they measure , I’d have thought you had to measure beside the building as surely with damp course etc that’s the height from the ground ? 

 Any help lads would be appreciated.       

What difference does it make to you exactly .? 

The difference it can make to the hard working lads on site .can mean the difference in going to work this week or being sent home  and then struggling to find work for the next 6 months .unless this is causing u a REAL problem .then wind your neck in .as you may find the builders wind it in for you .

There is a real new world phenomenon  of sticking noses into other peoples business  and it causes massive unnecessary  problems .(especially true in todays climate of no jobs ) 

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3 hours ago, adzyvilla said:

Sadly, corruption is endemic in this respect, and all councils are up to it. My local council have recently given the go ahead to 243 new homes on agricultural land (very prone to flooding) at the edge of town. This despite the proposal being turned down three times for various reasons including increased traffic, no facility for extra drainage, not enough affordable housing, no extra facilities and so on. Lo and behold, the plans were submitted for a fourth time, there was massive objection, it went to committee (again) and the very people who have turned it down three previous times suddenly unanimously approve the (unchanged) plans. No one does anything to stop it, so it will carry on. Banana Republic Britain. 

What evidence do you have that corruption has taken place?

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If someone is ignoring planning then it should be looked into.

As for no one should do anything because some lads might not work that week does not and should not be a factor at all. 

If the builder has done all by the book any neighbors sticking their oar in would and should be ignored. 

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18 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

What difference does it make to you exactly .? 

The difference it can make to the hard working lads on site .can mean the difference in going to work this week or being sent home  and then struggling to find work for the next 6 months .unless this is causing u a REAL problem .then wind your neck in .as you may find the builders wind it in for you .

There is a real new world phenomenon  of sticking noses into other peoples business  and it causes massive unnecessary  problems .(especially true in todays climate of no jobs ) 

Thanks for that , kind words etc 

let me tell you why , they are going to access this through our small cul de sac which in turn will turn it in to a thoroughfare that anyone can walk through , so turning a safe area where our kids can play safely into a short cut to town every Tom **** and Harry can use , plus people realising if they park near here it’s a short walk to shop , parking is a premium now so tearing down our boundary we lose two parking spaces ! Plus if they do use the roof windows we and our neighbours are overlooked ,shall I mention because it’s oversize it cuts out light into our garden , shall I go on or do you get the picture I’m sorry I’m being a selfish ***** ! 

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3 hours ago, oowee said:

I trained as a planner and worked in and with planning, all my working life, across seven Local Authorities and at a Central Govt Ievel. I did not once come across a case of corruption in planning, so I hardly think that what may occur at the margins can be seen in any way as endemic. What is more likely to happen is a change in guidance or a trade off in policy terms. 

Agree in respect to householder applications, just too small fry. The difference in height of 500mm could well have been regarded as de minimis and subject of a NMA. We specialise in winning planning against previous refusals on high value sites. Our clients always come to us claiming there has been corruption against them. We work to policy or make suitable compromises and justification when policy cannot be adhered to et voila ... permission approved.

In commercial applications google ‘Nick Kavanagh LIVERPOOL’. https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/kavanagh-among-five-arrested-by-merseyside-police/ The Council have enough power to sway planners. We have used it when in the overwhelming public interest. Perhaps others use it to line their nests. 

Edited by WalkedUp
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31 minutes ago, harrycatcat1 said:

What evidence do you have that corruption has taken place?

Purely anecdotal I will admit. My part of the world is Norfolk, where housebuilding is absolutely booming at the moment. In my district there are in the region of 5000 homes either currently being built or in the planning stages. Numerous local campaigns against them (local referenda, petitions etc) are ignored, councillors suddenly change their mind about applications despite being elected on a promise to fight them, lots of cronyism at district and county level (I.e big local builders or their family members getting elected and going straight on to the right committees and so on). If I wasn't busy working 60 hour weeks and raising a family, I might be inclined to do more about it. Time used to be that local papers would investigate these things, but with the importance of advertising revenue and the homes and housing supplement to think about, they are strangely silent too. 

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12 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

The Council have enough power to sway planners

And often for political spite.  Planning for 5 houses in a settlement of 70 stone, or "stone" and render, in an area of protected landscape  to be built in yellow brick. 

Quote from labour head of planning committee at objection  "We could let them be bright red brick, it's only a tory area"

Planning was given but fortunately they have been built in "Stone"  -  Still an eyesore and out of keeping but not quite as bad.

Needless to say this was not "recorded" in the minutes and sadly this was before he and his main crony lost their seats.

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5 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

And often for political spite.  Planning for 5 houses in a settlement of 70 stone, or "stone" and render, in an area of protected landscape  to be built in yellow brick. 

Quote from labour head of planning committee at objection  "We could let them be bright red brick, it's only a tory area"

Planning was given but fortunately they have been built in "Stone"  -  Still an eyesore and out of keeping but not quite as bad.

Needless to say this was not "recorded" in the minutes and sadly this was before he and his main crony lost their seats.

Like this https://environment-analyst.com/uk/76665/wirrals-labour-group-denies-green-belt-carve-up

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One of the biggest house builders in the country where building near us and folk had moved in to some of the streets and it turned out they didn't have planning permission , the council closed the streets down for two weeks planning permission was granted and live goes on , I still laugh as i drive up the motorway and see the large advertisement signs 

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I don’t understand why planners let developers get away with so much. Around my way there have been a lot of new developments and the developers are forever having roads closed for months on end to enable services to be laid. Often there are workarounds that would mean less disruption but the council let them get away with the easy (for them option). I bet you if they were to say “ok you can have your development but you aren’t closing that road for two months” the developer would soon find an alternative option. 

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