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Smart Meter


Dougy
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I had a call earlier about the fuel meters needed changing to smart meters.

Scare tactics used telling me the ones I have are unsafe, and unsuitable. The caller kept pushing telling me I had to have these meters.

I told them basically its codswallop and not a legal requirement, and if they insist on these selling tactics I will change provider.

Has anyone else had these calls from their fuel provider ?  

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2 minutes ago, Dougy said:

I had a call earlier about the fuel meters needed changing to smart meters.

Scare tactics used telling me the ones I have are unsafe, and unsuitable. The caller kept pushing telling me I had to have these meters.

I told them basically its codswallop and not a legal requirement, and if they insist on these selling tactics I will change provider.

Has anyone else had these calls from their fuel provider ?  

I had a new boiler fitted by British Gas two yrs ago and the salesman that priced everything up told me we needed to have smart meters by law , whilst speaking to someone about it he gave them his paycode  number well I asked if got paid for signing up new customers  no he said ,two weeks later a bloke comes to fit the meters and says he didn't have them because he flitted about to get the best deals from the energy companies , he said the sales man got £15 for each meter the lying scroat , so the fitter that also worked for British Gas put the meters back in his van and had an early breakfast .

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4 minutes ago, B725 said:

I have said it before as it's been asked a couple of times at some point you will end up with a smart meter it belongs to the supplier and in the end they will fit them.

Not if you tell them that there is a very poor phone signal in the vicinity of the meter which would inhibit the transmission of meter data. This is in fact true but they were happy to accept my declaration that it is the case. No meter for me !

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Just had a new 'reconditioned' meter to replace the curent one which was 20 years old.

Energy supplier had been sending letters for months trying to get a smart meter fitted but I insisted would only accept another dumb meter.

 

Finaly arranged a meter refit on condition of amother dumb meter.

New 'reconditioned' meter was from early 2010 and started on 250010 (so I would think reused rather than reconditioned & reset).

Edited by Stonepark
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1 hour ago, Dougy said:

I had a call earlier about the fuel meters needed changing to smart meters.

Scare tactics used telling me the ones I have are unsafe, and unsuitable. The caller kept pushing telling me I had to have these meters.

I told them basically its codswallop and not a legal requirement, and if they insist on these selling tactics I will change provider.

Has anyone else had these calls from their fuel provider ?  

Dougy you are absolutely correct as Martin Lewis says on his program you can not be forced to change. 

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10 hours ago, Velocette said:

Not if you tell them that there is a very poor phone signal in the vicinity of the meter which would inhibit the transmission of meter data.

SMETS 2 (the meters now being installed) do not use the mobile phone network.  They have a dedicated network (that has its own different issues and so called 'not spots') that is different to mobile phones.  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/smart-living/why-you-dont-need-mobile-signal/

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There are (like so many things), both good points and bad points.  I see them (for SMETS 2 - SMETS 1 is obsolete and was poor) like this;

Bad

  • Reliability of 'smart' part questionable for reasons of both radio signal variation to SMETS network and to in house display
  • It has the capability to remotely 'switch you off' - though this is not likely to be used, it could be hacked/operated in error, or by a rogue company/employee
  • Not all gas meters (e.g. the older large capacity U16) have smart replacements
  • There are issues with flats etc where meters may be at a distance from the consumer
  • If you are interested in saving energy, the relevant information is already available (slightly less conveniently) from existing sources
  • Tariffs will favour those who have smart - and penalise those who don't (as with the old coin or token meters where you paid more)

Good

  • Will have favourable tarriffs
  • In theory - more accurate billing
  • A very few people may reduce consumption as a result of using 'smart' display

For my own case, I feel fairly 'neutral'.

  • My electricity is a very consistent circa 10 KWh per day - summer and winter.  I will learn little
  • My gas varies wildly from very low in the summer to over 100, occasionally even 200 KWh per day on a cold windy winter day.  Seeing how that varies in more detail would be mildly informative, but I believe my gas supply is of a type with no smart replacement planned (U16).  This is for historical reasons (now removed gas Aga) - but it is not clear if I can go back to a standard meter size without additional survey work (at my expense).
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I actually wanted a smart meter so the export from the panels could be optimised. There was a good signal according the installer but it didn’t work.

After a few months of calling I gave up. They blamed the “data centre”. Still not working after 2 years. One of the support people claimed that up to 2/3 don’t work properly. If true, that’s another outrageous waste of tax money.

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16 hours ago, Dougy said:

I had a call earlier about the fuel meters needed changing to smart meters.

Scare tactics used telling me the ones I have are unsafe, and unsuitable. The caller kept pushing telling me I had to have these meters.

I told them basically its codswallop and not a legal requirement, and if they insist on these selling tactics I will change provider.

Has anyone else had these calls from their fuel provider ?  

Ours pushed it until we gave in and said if you must, some threat of not having the same tariff. No space on the board for it 😁 I'm not rewiring the house fot their benefit.

 

I saw a good piece talking about how smart metres could act as a throttle on your power draw at times of national shortage. Interesting thought. 

 

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40 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

I saw a good piece talking about how smart metres could act as a throttle on your power draw at times of national shortage.

There is a long way to go before that is possible - because it would have to selectively turn off 'non essentials'.  For example fridges and freezers can be turned off for short periods with no overall detriment, as can many car charging operations (which will be BIG power users). 

The present generation smart meters have the capability to turn off and on - but there are huge safety issues;

  • Someone for whom power is critical (e,g. medical application)
  • Power off - then user switches on a ring/heater - which doesn't come on - and leaves something flammable nearby - power comes back on remotely - and a fire ensues
  • Gas cannot be safely switched off then on again as there is a risk of air getting in when the pressure is removed.
  • Older gas appliances don't shut off gas when it temporarily stops

The idea that when there are lots of electric cars to charge - you tell 'a management system' when you need the car next, so that charging can be fitted into slack periods before then is a sound idea - and load management like that will be needed to prevent massive power demand surges when everyone gets home in the evening - on a windless evening at dusk when there is no wind and solar power - and puts their car on charge and starts cooking dinner, has a shower/bath etc.

The present grid and local distribution network is already in many places near maximum capacity, and taking the huge heating and motor fuel away from oil and gas to electricity will need a HUGE increase in transmission and distribution capacity.  It is not clear how this is intended to be achieved in the timescales that have been proposed for 'zero carbon' emissions.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

The present grid and local distribution network is already in many places near maximum capacity, and taking the huge heating and motor fuel away from oil and gas to electricity will need a HUGE increase in transmission and distribution capacity.  It is not clear how this is intended to be achieved in the timescales that have been proposed for 'zero carbon' emissions.

That’s not what the national Grid say. Quote

“Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.”

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

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9 minutes ago, AVB said:

That’s not what the national Grid say.

Let me quote my own house.  My supply maximum capacity is 80A, or about 16 KW.  That is the 'master fuse' rating.  Current typical peak demand is about half that with oven, hob, some water heating etc.  No electric space heating.

A current type car charger is about 7KW, which gives about 30 'miles worth of charge' per hour.  So I could have a 7KW car charger and still use my present oven, kettle etc. ....... just. 

However - IF I had to use electricity for space heating (rather than gas, which currently has about 60 KW max capacity) - and I assume a steady state requirement of about 10 KW, I am in trouble.  I would have to turn off the heating when cooking or charging the car.  To be sensible with some flexibility, I would need maybe 20- 25 KW total capacity as a minimum.

My understanding is that the local network where a substation may support a street or two works on a basis of 'average' where it cannot support every connected house drawing full power all at once - hence the thoughts about 'smart' throttling back.  Every gallon of petrol/diesel/heating oil you use is about 30 KWh equivalent of electricity, so if we used no oil or gas based fuels locally, 30 KWhr would need to be available instead of each gallon saved.

I am dubious of the grids figures because every winter we hear that there is a risk the grid may have to 'throttle back' large industrial users - and indeed I believe it has occasionally done so - known as 'load shedding'.

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17 hours ago, Dougy said:

I had a call earlier about the fuel meters needed changing to smart meters.

Scare tactics used telling me the ones I have are unsafe, and unsuitable. The caller kept pushing telling me I had to have these meters.

I told them basically its codswallop and not a legal requirement, and if they insist on these selling tactics I will change provider.

Has anyone else had these calls from their fuel provider ?  

Utter codswallop!

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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I would have to turn off the heating when cooking or charging the car. 

You have that backwards, you would turn off the car charging when heating.  See video.

Note the device advert-orial-ised below can be fitted regardless of whether you have a smart meter.

Further, government grants available for EV charging points require fitting of a 'connected' charging point.

 

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

That is the 'master fuse' rating. 

It's called a cut-out or service head fuse.

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3 minutes ago, Medic1281 said:

Some vehicle charging systems are actually being used to power the grid now. Due to the huge storage capacity of the batteries in these cars it’s possible to power the grid when the car isn’t needed. 

they are even developing air batteries - so solar power runs compressors to put into a big container and then at night, the compressed air is used to drive turbines to power the grid

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