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Cartridge hard to extract


flippermaj
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I have recently bought an AYA no 3 mag.   When trying to remove a fired cartridge from the right barrel it is very tight and hard to pull out. The extractor lifts it fine but it’s still a struggle to pull it out, doesn’t matter if it is high or low brass shells.   
 

can this be fixed by polishing the first 10mm or so of the chamber?  Is there another fix?  If I polish it I have a drill but what bit do I use?

 

cheers

flipper

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Often cheap cartridges can cause this. Steel case heads nowadays not brass so they don't shrink back, as does brass, on firing. Go easy of the polishing as if you polish the chamber but in fact enlarge around its "waist" so to speak you've then only created a further obstacle to easy extraction as you've made in effect a classic bulged chamber. Which I do hope isn't what you've actually got passed on to you when you bought the gun?

Edited by enfieldspares
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In essence yes. Bulges in chambers tend to always be a little bit further down the chamber as, of course, the pressure curve of a cartridge starts off low and then climbs. So this therefore happens as the wad and shot charge (or in a bulleted weapon the bullet) is a little bit further along its way. So a bulged chamber in normal or more correctly abnormal use is usually an overloaded cartridge. I hope that it isn't the case here. With paper or plastic case shotgun cartridges it is hard to tell when looking at the cartridge whereas with a firearms where the cartridge is an all metal case you can usually see the bulge in any cartridge (even of standard safe pressure) subsequently fired in that bulged chamber. The other cause of what would on the face of it appear a cartridge stiff to extract is...on an ejector gun..one of then ejectors being worn so that it doesn't engage full with the whole available part of the cartridge's rim. But as you No3 is an extractor gun that's unlikely unless, again, that extractor leg is worn.

Edited by enfieldspares
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Hello, is the cartridge tight in the lip of right hand barrel  ejector ? I seem to remember my AYA number 3 game gun did this back many years, the Eleys went in tight on closing gun, the gunsmith had a reamer for this very problem, a few turns cleaned the rough edges and all sorted, was like a bib and brace with a reamer tool for 12 guage, 

Edited by oldypigeonpopper
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The other test is maybe measure the diameter of a fired case at 1/4" intervals using a gentle hand and an accurate micrometer or calipers. Also break the gun, remove the extractor and see if a fired cartridge from the left barrel will easily enter the right barrel and vice versa. And THEN if a fired cartridge from the right barrel will easily enter that same right barrel once it's been extracted some time previously both in the same alignment when fired and also rotated 180 degrees around from the position when it was fired. After doing that turn it and see if there's a point where it binds as you try to turn it in the barrel. If it does say turn OK for 1/3 but sticks for the other 2/3 you've likely a bulge. Or not a bulge but an area in the chamber that has become enlarged through aggressive treatment to remove a "scab" of rust....so in fact mechanically then enlarging the chamber at that point.

Edited by enfieldspares
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Today after bagging two pinks I did some testing with the used carts.  Any cart is fine in the left barrel.  I took a used cart that had been fired from the left barrel.  I placed it into the right barrel and had the same problem in that it is hard to extract.   I slowly inserted the fired cart into the right barrel and it was free to move up and down and rotate until the point that the brass came into contact with the chamber.  These were hi brass carts and the first little bit was tight but not too bad, push the cart fully home and you could feel it getting tighter and it then became a tug of war to remove the cart.

I think this suggests that the first 5mm or so of the chamber needs polished or reamed to give a fraction more space?

Wire wool has been suggested, what about wet and dry paper wrapped around a bore mop or similar?

Cheers

 

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8 minutes ago, flippermaj said:

Today after bagging two pinks I did some testing with the used carts.  Any cart is fine in the left barrel.  I took a used cart that had been fired from the left barrel.  I placed it into the right barrel and had the same problem in that it is hard to extract.   I slowly inserted the fired cart into the right barrel and it was free to move up and down and rotate until the point that the brass came into contact with the chamber.  These were hi brass carts and the first little bit was tight but not too bad, push the cart fully home and you could feel it getting tighter and it then became a tug of war to remove the cart.

I think this suggests that the first 5mm or so of the chamber needs polished or reamed to give a fraction more space?

Wire wool has been suggested, what about wet and dry paper wrapped around a bore mop or similar?

Cheers

 

I would put a vernier caliper across both chambers before removing any metal.

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1 hour ago, flippermaj said:

I placed it into the right barrel and had the same problem in that it is hard to extract.   I slowly inserted the fired cart into the right barrel and it was free to move up and down and rotate until the point that the brass came into contact with the chamber.  

IMHO you extractor is perhaps worn on its side that serves the right barrel and therefore the head of the cartridge is expanding more on one side than the other. Or its leg is worn on the LEFT side. In effect this is now allowing the fired case head to develop a bulge. Either by expanding in to the worn part of the ejector or...by the leg being worn...by when fired pushing the extractor over to the left.

It's more a problem with ejectors as usually the right ejector and/or its leg becomes worn but it may also happen with a extractor. A test is to undo the screw (or "pin") that holds the extractor in place and see if the thing can be wobbled right to left now it is slightly freer than with the pin that secures it in place removed.

 

CART.png

Edited by enfieldspares
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Hi Enfield spares.

if you are correct (and you know a lot more than me on the matter!) surely if the cartridge is bulging then when I put that fired cartridge into the left barrel it should also be hard to extract from there as well?   As it stands I can put the fired cartridge into the left barrel and it can be pulled out just fine.

cheers

 

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  • 1 month later...

Okay an update on the problem!

i had a much closer look today after scrubbing the chamber yet again.  It appears that the problem is caused by the extractor.

With the barrels off the gun and the extractor duly seated flush with the chambers a fired cartridge will fit comfortably in both barrels and is easy to pull out.

Assemble the gun and try to insert the same cartridge into the right barrel and it is very tight, but at this point the extractor is fully extended so it appears the problem is with the extractor, I guess it is slightly bent some where???

Whats the fix, a new extractor?  If so is this a home job, I can only see one screw that may hold it in place?

cheers

flipper

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Okay an update on the problem!

i had a much closer look today after scrubbing the chamber yet again.  It appears that the problem is caused by the extractor.

With the barrels off the gun and the extractor duly seated flush with the chambers a fired cartridge will fit comfortably in both barrels and is easy to pull out.

Assemble the gun and try to insert the same cartridge into the right barrel and it is very tight, but at this point the extractor is fully extended so it appears the problem is with the extractor, I guess it is slightly bent some where???

Whats the fix, a new extractor?  If so is this a home job, I can only see one screw that may hold it in place?

cheers

flipper

Again looking further it appears the extractor when fully out is slightly twisted.  Looking at the photo you will see the top left corner is lower then the top right corner.   Can I knock this back into shape?   I guess a previous owner knocked it out of shape somehow?

B8C4DD2C-BD80-4687-A1E1-00A7D8815F0C.jpeg

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