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Environment Bill - lead shot ban from 1st January 2023


rbrowning2
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44 minutes ago, clangerman said:

when the anti nuts start claiming steel wounds more birds i will be agreeing with them i used the rubbish so don’t be telling me it’s as good  i could always invite the antis to a demo using both 

Thanks for taking a break from your valuable work with MENSA to contribute to the thread.

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Hi the bill or proposed bill referred to,the banning of lead shot gun pellets, for environmental reasons. Steel shot isn’t in question. If shooters insist steel pellets are no alternative they will also be banned. There is a new type of bismuth,sphero, that can be used in all guns. I can’t believe any anti shooter would take up your invite to watch any wildlife killed or injured. The type of ammunition used would be up to the individual. 

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4 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

The only issue we will have is older guns. 

Just may be an issue with small gauge guns like 28ga and .410 also especially if the biodegradable wad agenda is required, but then again is it acceptable to exchange one environmental issue, lead shot with another non biodegradable plastic wads that will be around for many decades? 
 

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1 hour ago, clangerman said:

when the anti nuts start claiming steel wounds more birds i will be agreeing with them i used the rubbish so don’t be telling me it’s as good  i could always invite the antis to a demo using both 

Wow. So a shooter hapoy to turn on the sport. Arent you a good one. Im sorry but steel is more than capable of killing. End of!! if you are wounding your aim is off. Simple as that! 

16 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Just may be an issue with small gauge guns like 28ga and .410 also especially if the biodegradable wad agenda is required, but then again is it acceptable to exchange one environmental issue, lead shot with another non biodegradable plastic wads that will be around for many decades? 
 

Early stages of this transition. Hopefully all manufacturers will be able to overcome this. And i always have used fibre when shooting lead. Steel, plastic wad has been the only option until now. As for the cases, i pick them up and dispose of them properly. And as for the plastic for decades, yes but wads are a drop in the ocean compared to other products. 

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6 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Hopefully all manufacturers will be able to overcome this. 

An old boss of mine once said "if you're full of hope go and buy a lottery ticket. Make sure you're on top of things and leave nothing to chance". Now it would seem to me that these shooting organisations have left a lot to chance with their 5 year transition commitment, with manufacturers claiming they weren't consulted. The pressure is now on them to come up with the goods, and it's US that will pay for it. Such a big change won't come cheap in the shooting industry.

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6 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Wow. So a shooter hapoy to turn on the sport. Arent you a good one. Im sorry but steel is more than capable of killing. End of!! if you are wounding your aim is off. Simple as that! 

you don’t turn on shooting MORE than basc robbing shooting of the best tool for the job if steel is that wonderful what are you worried about is there something to hide here i’m starting to think a invite to the antis is a good idea with all your protesting 

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13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

you don’t turn on shooting MORE than basc robbing shooting of the best tool for the job if steel is that wonderful what are you worried about is there something to hide here i’m starting to think a invite to the antis is a good idea with all your protesting 

Ive said I have no issues with steel, you not got glasses on if you need them? 

You just love to blame BASC for everything. 

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Re .410 I’m sure  in New Zealand it’s exempt and allowed to use lead. 28gauge bio wads will come sometime. I have used many thousands of steel cartridges in 28gauge for more than 10 years. If lead is banned people will still shoot and manufacturers will still make cartridges. I’m not up to using 12gauge and 10gauge now so l went with small gauge. A change of pellets in the cartridges won’t stop me shooting. It shouldn’t stop anyone shooting.

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43 minutes ago, clangerman said:

and who are we supposed to blame for losing the best tool for the job tooth fairy didn’t come up with the idea to call for a lead ban when it’s YOUR idea good or bad YOU take the credit 

Its now clear to me all you will do is moan and blame BASC. So no point me saying anything or putting my opinion across. I will enjoy my season using both lead and steel and in the knowledge that I will kill what I hit, unless I misplace the shot. Then I'll send the dog to retrieve 

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50 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Its now clear to me all you will do is moan and blame BASC. So no point me saying anything or putting my opinion across. I will enjoy my season using both lead and steel and in the knowledge that I will kill what I hit, unless I misplace the shot. Then I'll send the dog to retrieve 

if you think claiming it’s a case of blame or moaning when it’s a FACT basc called for the lead ban good luck to you 

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10 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Wow. So a shooter hapoy to turn on the sport. Arent you a good one. Im sorry but steel is more than capable of killing. End of!! if you are wounding your aim is off. Simple as that! 

Early stages of this transition. Hopefully all manufacturers will be able to overcome this. And i always have used fibre when shooting lead. Steel, plastic wad has been the only option until now. As for the cases, i pick them up and dispose of them properly. And as for the plastic for decades, yes but wads are a drop in the ocean compared to other products. 

Drop in the ocean?, but if you are shooting over ground where the owner does not allow plastic wads and it is their land so their choice, then what? I too only shoot fibre wads because all my permissions will not allow plastic wads to littered the ground. 
 Plus google Denmark and find the study they did on plastic waste on the foreshore plastic wads were in the top ten so much for being a drop in the ocean. 
think it could be a very long time before we see a biodegradable wad for 28ga and .410 suitable for steel shot and then at what price. Shooting is fast becoming a rich persons sport, what long term future for the youngsters that first taste was a days pigeon shooting, when possibly cartridges will be around £350 to £400 a thousand.
Then do you think the likes of WJ will leave us alone once we swap lead shot pollution for non biodegradable plastic littering the environment?

 

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20 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

when possibly cartridges will be around £350 to £400 a thousand

Lead is already at that price though. Plastic waste is a huge problem be it a wad or a straw from McDonald's. Fibre can also have a pas cup due to the fibre not being robust enough to take the force of the bang. Eco wads are now in 12b so id imagine the manufacturers will know how ro replicate them into smaller bores.

 

Yeah its all a bit of a mess right now but pointing fingers and saying its all down to an org is just a bit infantile in my opinion. End of the day something was going to happen be it an org or higher pushing it through. We are at the bottom of the chain and just have to tow the line. 

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3 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

 

 

Yeah its all a bit of a mess right now but pointing fingers and saying its all down to an org is just a bit infantile in my opinion.  

you must be the only person not to have heard from basc OWN mouth a lead ban was their idea anyone want to help this chap out and tell him who called for the ban as he is either in denial or missed it 

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Clangerman.  I thought the phasing out of lead leading to a ban in 5 years was signed up to by all the organisations and the cartridge makers organisation.

The Proposed lead ban referred to at the start of this thread, is a proposal put forward by the Labour Party, which still has to be voted on, and is unlikely to get approval in the present Parliament

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1 hour ago, clangerman said:

you must be the only person not to have heard from basc OWN mouth a lead ban was their idea anyone want to help this chap out and tell him who called for the ban as he is either in denial or missed it 

Was stood next to someone from basc yesterday bud.. No mention of that when chatting to them about the new eco wads and covid info for this season. No denial here. Yes lead definitely does work. But then so does steel. 

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It was not only BASC that signed up to the phasing out of lead,but it just seems Clangerman has a real beef with BASC.Lead is going so the sooner we get our heads around it ,the better it will be.Wildfowlers have been using steel for what seems forever,in fact my son's know no other load over wetlands and have no complaints .The cartridge manufacturers will adapt and bring out different loads for different guns. The lose of lead will not be the loss of shooting not for me ,my family or my friends.

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1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

Was stood next to someone from basc yesterday bud.. No mention of that when chatting to them about the new eco wads and covid info for this season. No denial here. Yes lead definitely does work. But then so does steel. 

don’t worry about it bud obviously wasting my time supporting game shooting if nobody will admit voluntary or not the lead ban came from basc 

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those that convert to steel sooner are those going to be shooting more and probably better with whats available. its going to happen. soon? later? dont know.

i still think people will reload. reload and use steel and lead. i have guns for steel and i have "a" gun for lead or soft nontoxics. 

i think there is a race on to get a viable "degradable" eco plastic, that can be used for lots of wads and has protective properties. plastic needs to break down, not break to billions of micro plastic particles. get a patent and its worth gold. the issues also what manufacturers want to make. the transition of steel loads means steel equivalent of lead loads. 1,1/8 oz is a standard load in lead. but that in steel starts to transition into 3". 3" are expensive but probably viable for steel fibre loads.

steel should be cheaper because the raw materiel are cheaper. but that is directly against what manufacturers want to make. they want to make "money".

there will be a ton of spin on all the new shells coming out, because manufacturers will loose out on 70% of there varied loads. how many lead loads overlap? 

i`m pretty sure the punter will pay. will be on the receiving end. 

i think gamebore probable will be the most viable, theyve adapted years ago. brought out some decent shells and export shells too. 

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Bio wads are on the way and will be in all gauges. We have on order 20gauge Steel with bio wads. Most cartridge components come from Italy and they must be trying out new wads. When gamebore/Kent made ITM cartridges they passed the cold weather test in the USA . Gamebore are ahead with their wildfowling cartridges. The manufacturers in Europe produced all the components for their bio cartridges in lead and steel. Different gauges won’t be a problem for them. A lot of small gauge shot guns are used on the Continent and in USA. We have used steel and heavy types of shot in .410 to 10gauge so I’m sure large companies can mass produce them. The question maybe is it lead and plastic that’s bad for the environment or the people using them.

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53 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

steel should be cheaper because the raw materiel are cheaper. but that is directly against what manufacturers want to make. they want to make "money".

The raw material might be cheaper, but converting it into small balls uses many times more energy than lead and therefore costs much more.

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