Time for independence?

[markm]

34 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Here's hoping 🙏 

I presume you want independence for Scotland?

I have 50 questions I’d like to ask you, but I’ll as you one and tell you what I’d fight for. 
 

1. What Currency will you use?

I live in Northumberland and spend a lot of time in Scotland (wife is Scottish). If Scotland chooses to leave (if they ever get a second vote) it can’t be made easy for Scotland. So no £, hard borders, challenging paperwork when crossing, significant share of union debt paid for before leaving, removal of BBC / MSM, no military support other than NATO and a ‘get back in clause after 5 years*’

 

* but on significantly different terms, higher rates for tax to cover GERS shortfall and total removal of devolved gov. 

[WalkedUp]

1 minute ago, markm said:

a ‘get back in clause after 5 years*’

 

* but on significantly different terms, higher rates for tax to cover GERS shortfall and total removal of devolved gov. 

Good idea. I like it, also have the negotiations before the vote rather than after. So it’s a choice between to concrete options rather than the status quo and some attractive fairytale to lure in gullible fools. 

[Westward]

If the politicians had any experience of real life and real people they would have realised Devolution was a really stupid idea that would have the opposite effect to what they expected. 

It didn't placate the indie brigade it at all, instead it motivated them try harder to achieve what they think they want. Because the SNP's fight for independence was never about money or economics, it has always been 100% emotional. 

For my money perhaps an independent England is a step too far, but at the very least there should be an English assembly and a total overhaul and recalculation of the Barnett formula.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Westward

[WalkedUp]

I posted about an English Parliament previously but was shot down. I think all devolved parliaments should have the same legislative powers. The UK parliament should govern international and defence matters etc. Ideally there should be almost no crossover in powers. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

If the politicians had any experience of real life and real people they would have realised Devolution was a really stupid idea that would have the opposite effect to what they expected. 

It didn't placate the indie brigade it at all, instead it motivated them try harder to achieve what they think they want. Because the SNP's fight for independence was never about money or economics, it has always been 100% emotional. 

For my money perhaps an independent England is a step too far, but at the very least there should be an English assembly and a total overhaul and recalculation of the Barnett formula.

 

On the money. The halfwits who advocate independence have clearly never grasped economics. London subsidises the rest of the UK. An independent Wales or Scotland would go bankrupt rather rapidly. I look at the two leaders who advocate independence and I see nothing but limited, rabble rousers, stronger on rhetoric than intelligence.

[Newbie to this]

9 hours ago, markm said:

I presume you want independence for Scotland?

I have 50 questions I’d like to ask you, but I’ll as you one and tell you what I’d fight for. 
 

1. What Currency will you use?

I live in Northumberland and spend a lot of time in Scotland (wife is Scottish). If Scotland chooses to leave (if they ever get a second vote) it can’t be made easy for Scotland. So no £, hard borders, challenging paperwork when crossing, significant share of union debt paid for before leaving, removal of BBC / MSM, no military support other than NATO and a ‘get back in clause after 5 years*’

 

* but on significantly different terms, higher rates for tax to cover GERS shortfall and total removal of devolved gov. 

I'll still use the GBP, I don't care what an 'independent' Scotland use. 

If they want it, let them have it, but make it clear, there is no route back, and their share of the national debt is the ONLY thing they leave with.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Newbie to this

[Raja Clavata]

16 hours ago, oowee said:

and become a dominant force in the North Sea. 

LOL

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well, if it ever comes to a vote again, whether it be Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland. Then it should also be put to the voters of England to have their say!

[discobob]

It has been announced this morning the Reckless has now joined the Abolish party in Wales

A number of years ago a guy round the corner put up an England flag for the Euro's or something football - he had a note shoved through his letterbox saying "if you want to support England ***** off and live there". I said to him if that had happened to me I would have put up a sign saying "if you want the English subsidy then ***** off and live there"

[Capt Christopher Jones]

10 hours ago, Gordon R said:

On the money. The halfwits who advocate independence have clearly never grasped economics. London subsidises the rest of the UK. An independent Wales or Scotland would go bankrupt rather rapidly. I look at the two leaders who advocate independence and I see nothing but limited, rabble rousers, stronger on rhetoric than intelligence.

And then add Brexit into the pot. GB is in no different position to Wales or Scotland, in 20 yrs we, will be dealing in €s

20 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well, if it ever comes to a vote again, whether it be Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland. Then it should also be put to the voters of England to have their say!

with a sensible % win vote NOT FPP, that has been too devicive already

[Gordon R]

Quote

And then add Brexit into the pot. GB is in no different position to Wales or Scotland, in 20 yrs we, will be dealing in €s

An Olympic standard leap in logic, although it is nonsense.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

27 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

with a sensible % win vote NOT FPP, that has been too devicive already

Yes I agree, make it a win by 10%

[ehb102]

England, England by Julian Barnes is a great (comedic) read about events that lead to devolution.

[AVB]

32 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

And then add Brexit into the pot. GB is in no different position to Wales or Scotland, in 20 yrs we, will be dealing in €s

 

More chance of the Euro disappearing within 10 years. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, AVB said:

More chance of the Euro disappearing within 10 years. 

Yes I have to agree!

[Capt Christopher Jones]

51 minutes ago, AVB said:

More chance of the Euro disappearing within 10 years. 

😅

[Westward]

12 hours ago, Gordon R said:

 London subsidises the rest of the UK. 

London, with about 15% of the UK population, produces over 30% of the national wealth. Greater London and the southeast of England are the only regions in the entire UK that generate more revenue than they spend.

[enfieldspares]

Of course what nobody yet has mentioned is that if you live by the sword then you die by the sword. Thus as Johnson and Gove are asserting in a post-Brexit Britain a two hundred mile fishing limit so if there were to be an independent Scotland I'd assume that Ms Sturgeon would then use the same argument deployed by them to assert a two hundred mile fishing limit for Scotland?

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Of course what nobody yet has mentioned is that if you live by the sword then you die by the sword. Thus as Johnson and Gove are asserting in a post-Brexit Britain a two hundred mile fishing limit so if there were to be an independent Scotland I'd assume that Ms Sturgeon would then use the same argument deployed by them to assert a two hundred mile fishing limit for Scotland?

And so they should. Unfortunately fishing isn’t a big revenue generator (£750mln iirc) and a lot of that is already from Scottish ports.  

[deeksofdoom]

19 hours ago, oowee said:

With Wales looking to close the borders, with Scotland looking at the same and the need for the Tunnel diminished is it time to make the move to independence? England standing alone could break free of all of this sniping on it's door step and become a dominant force in the North Sea. 

 I was looking at this and about to reply, then I thought this is a wind up, I'd better read the rest of the posts and I did.... but its not..... the entire educational system over in the UK must be ****ed, no concept of anything.... whatever ye want to call yerselves England, (not so) Great Britain..... ye are all completely doomed.

[southeastpete]

6 minutes ago, deeksofdoom said:

 I was looking at this and about to reply, then I thought this is a wind up, I'd better read the rest of the posts and I did.... but its not..... the entire educational system over in the UK must be ******, no concept of anything.... whatever ye want to call yerselves England, (not so) Great Britain..... ye are all completely doomed.

Talking about the British education system when you can’t spell ‘you’.

Stereotypically, aren’t the Irish renowned for being thick?

[Zapp]

Keep things civil please

[Mice!]

 

I'm agreeing with both the above,  they either need to be brought to heel, its all well and good trying to undermine Gov when they are actually paying for everything or they need to be cut loose, but how long will it be before Wales and Scotland are broke and knocking on the door asking for help??

[SpringDon]

53 minutes ago, deeksofdoom said:

 I was looking at this and about to reply, then I thought this is a wind up, I'd better read the rest of the posts and I did.... but its not..... the entire educational system over in the UK must be ******, no concept of anything.... whatever ye want to call yerselves England, (not so) Great Britain..... ye are all completely doomed.

Shhh! You’re the only person that noticed.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, deeksofdoom said:

 I was looking at this and about to reply, then I thought this is a wind up, I'd better read the rest of the posts and I did.... but its not..... the entire educational system over in the UK must be ******, no concept of anything.... whatever ye want to call yerselves England, (not so) Great Britain..... ye are all completely doomed.

Not half as doomed as your lot in Southern Ireland come January 31st 

Thank Mr Barnier and the rest of the EU big wigs for leaving you out in the cold.

The consolation is , you can always leave the EU , become INDEPENDENT and join our little UK trading bloc 😏