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Time for independence?


oowee
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Just now, button said:

May be surprised but its fact

Another flaw in the SNP masterplan

You're right, I AM surprised! I used to live in north-east Scotland (including four years in Aberdeen itself) and rigs were built at Ardersier and Nigg, and at Kishorn in the west, but, d'you know, I can't recall ever hearing of one being built in Aberdeen...... Which yard did the construction there?

 

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1 hour ago, AVB said:

Yes we did. Like it or not the majority of the U.K. did vote for Brexit.  I am not sure what your point is. 

The point being that the UK voting for self governance rejecting central management is a reflection of the situiation that we have now within the UK. Brexit will add to that UK complexity because the basic systems are not in place.

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I dont believe its a matter of who is in power locally or nationally. The recent Covid response is a demonstration that the management system of UK plc is not fit for purpose. Could Wales have closed the border to other UK residents? Could Scotland refuse to install new infrastructure to Faslane? These things all become more likely if there is a lack of involvement and accountability. 

Look at Andy Burnham with Manchester. Forget the symptoms of the issue (political divide) and focus on the underlying lack of process and structure to properly engage devolved power in central administration. 

Brexit will highlight these deficiencies further.

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32 minutes ago, aldivalloch said:

Oh, and I forgot to ask you to explain why building oil-rigs in Aberdeen is "another flaw in the SNP masterplan".

Do tell!

Apologies I was talking about the oil not the rigs, despite their denial oil revenues were part of their plan which knowing what we know would never have worked

Edited by button
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38 minutes ago, oowee said:

The point being that the UK voting for self governance rejecting central management is a reflection of the situiation that we have now within the UK. Brexit will add to that UK complexity because the basic systems are not in place.

Didn’t we always have self governance? Or so the remainers told us?

i would argue that we have problems with devolved governments, whether that be Scotland, Wales or Manchester because we let them. Take the powers away and the problem goes away. One government for all. 
 

The problem with the EU was that it tried to coexist with national government. It would have been better If the EU had said that you could only join the EU if you gave up your national identity and government. The problem is that if they had done that nobody would have joined!

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11 minutes ago, AVB said:

Didn’t we always have self governance? Or so the remainers told us?

i would argue that we have problems with devolved governments, whether that be Scotland, Wales or Manchester because we let them. Take the powers away and the problem goes away. One government for all. 
 

The problem with the EU was that it tried to coexist with national government. It would have been better If the EU had said that you could only join the EU if you gave up your national identity and government. The problem is that if they had done that nobody would have joined!

You need the people on side force will only work for a while. 

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13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well that shows how narrow minded your view of brexit is, with a fundamental change to how the UK operates bought on by brexit and all the changes that brings, even the most staunch remainder or brexiteer has to admit there will be pros and cons no matter what your overall opinion is. 

Simply put your views of brexit can't be taken seriously as your so bias you can't be taken seriously. 

time will tell & history the judge

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4 hours ago, oowee said:

Could Scotland refuse to install new infrastructure to Faslane? These things all become more likely if there is a lack of involvement and accountability

I doubt very much that Scotland pay for things being done at Faslane,  but the money earned by working at Faslane will be of massive importance to the area.

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4 hours ago, button said:

May be surprised but its fact

Another flaw in the SNP masterplan

Clarification on it is a fact that oil rigs are built in Aberdeen in their deep water harbour then changed to you were meaning the oil not the rigs.

It seems to be pigeon watch contributors are in denial about the popularity of the SNP in Scotland. A quick Google would show that they took 48 of the 59 Scottish seats in the House of Commons in the last election and that they have 63 seats in the Scottish parliament ,more than twice the amount that the Conservatives hold and not far off three times the Labour seats held. The Telegraph poll reckons that the SNP are likely to increase their seats in the next Scottish parliament elections.

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25 minutes ago, Konor said:

Clarification on it is a fact that oil rigs are built in Aberdeen in their deep water harbour then changed to you were meaning the oil not the rigs.

It seems to be pigeon watch contributors are in denial about the popularity of the SNP in Scotland. A quick Google would show that they took 48 of the 59 Scottish seats in the House of Commons in the last election and that they have 63 seats in the Scottish parliament ,more than twice the amount that the Conservatives hold and not far off three times the Labour seats held. The Telegraph poll reckons that the SNP are likely to increase their seats in the next Scottish parliament elections.

You have lost me on the first bit

Support for SNP does not follow that they also support independence 

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Quote

 

You have lost me on the first bit

Support for SNP does not follow that they also support independence 

 

Button - he seems intent on picking an argument - why - who knows.

I also agree with the second part. With the people who actually vote, the SNP is clearly doing well at the moment. However, no party enjoys permanent popularity and there will come a time when Krankie and co are out of power. My concern is the damage their current popularity might do to Scotland - long term. I can't claim to have hundreds of Scottish friends, but among those I have, the SNP are seen as a one trick pony. Banging the independence drum can only mask their incompetence for so long.

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5 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

You're right, I AM surprised! I used to live in north-east Scotland (including four years in Aberdeen itself) and rigs were built at Ardersier and Nigg, and at Kishorn in the west, but, d'you know, I can't recall ever hearing of one being built in Aberdeen...... Which yard did the construction there?

 

The platforms for the Forties field in the 1970s were built on Teeside and Nigg bay  before final assembly off Aberdeen prior to being towed out and commissioned

Aberdeen being deep enough to handle the support vessels, massive cranes etc rather than the rigs itself and the closest deep water harbour to the oil field.

Aberdeen, being the only viable harbour for a long way north or south attracted all the associated industries as well. Plus the airport, it became the Dallas of the Highlands.

Edited by Vince Green
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4 hours ago, button said:

Apologies I was talking about the oil not the rigs, despite their denial oil revenues were part of their plan which knowing what we know would never have worked

I was querying your explanation that you were referring to “the oil not the rigs”. As I read it you first stated that it was a fact that oil rigs were built in Aberdeen’s deep harbour water then changed to say that  you were referring to the oil not the rigs. 

I didn’t mention independence I was commenting on the popularity of the SNP in Scotland.

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6 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Button - he seems intent on picking an argument - why - who knows.

I also agree with the second part. With the people who actually vote, the SNP is clearly doing well at the moment. However, no party enjoys permanent popularity and there will come a time when Krankie and co are out of power. My concern is the damage their current popularity might do to Scotland - long term. I can't claim to have hundreds of Scottish friends, but among those I have, the SNP are seen as a one trick pony. Banging the independence drum can only mask their incompetence for so long.

Personally I have been impressed with the way Nicola Sturgeon has conducted herself during the pandemic.

I wasn’t picking an argument I was asking for clarification on a post.

The days of “Its Scotland’s Oil” harks back to the 1970s things have changed, discussion now is around when to turn the taps off and the transition of jobs from oil and gas to renewables.

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7 minutes ago, Konor said:

I was querying your explanation that you were referring to “the oil not the rigs”. As I read it you first stated that it was a fact that oil rigs were built in Aberdeen’s deep harbour water then changed to say that  you were referring to the oil not the rigs. 

I didn’t mention independence I was commenting on the popularity of the SNP in Scotland.

Apologies that's me not been very clear

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