Gun fitting

[Lucasnorth]

Hi chaps, 

im after having my new gun fit to me properly and wondered if anyone had any recommendations from experience.

looking to have it done in the West Yorkshire area if possible as I live in Leeds. But willing to travel if needs be. 
I think it’s a little short. A little low in the comb and for some reason that iv never had with any other miroku’s before 

when looking down the rib the centre bead is to the right of the front bead, it’s like having another 2 beads on the right hand side of the front bead and the center bead is the outer one, hope that makes sence😄

land before anyone asks. I bought the gun un seen on its outstanding condition. Thinking it would fit ok. And it’s not far off to be fair but I’d rather it be spot on. The gun is a Miroku 3800. 
thanks in advance. 
 

lucas

[Saltings]

sorry fella dont know where to send you other than wisemans at cannock  or elderkins at spalding  both are proper gunsmiths  both have a 👍 from me

[Shearwater]

The easiest/cheapest way is to part exchange your gun for another at your local gun dealer and he will make sure the new one fits

[welshwarrior]

Find a gun fitter, not all instructors are gun fitter and even fewer shops/RFDs. 
 

If someone says their a gun fitter ask where they where trained, APSI or time served at/with are good answers, Bob at the pub or I’ve been in this shop for 50 years aren’t IMHO.  
 

From experience most people don’t really understand gun fit and many don’t know they don’t.

[WalkedUp]

I don’t know anyone who has had a gun fitted by a professional fitter and regretted it. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, what do you mean by a little short ?

[JohnfromUK]

I am sure someone from here will come on with someone in your area.  You will not regret having a gun properly fitted, but a few caveats first (and forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know);

1. Any fitter can only fit a gun if the subject has already done enough to have a consistent and reasonable 'style' - especially gun mount.
2. Fitting is likely to involve a pattern plate, maybe a try gun, and probably some moving targets (e.g. clays).
3. Go with an open mind (not preconceived ideas) and follow instruction.  This is important as you may have developed 'bad habits' if you have 'learned' to use a poorly fitted gun (such as by altering your natural instinctive mount to align your eye along the rib).
4. A good experienced fitter will notice these things ........ which you may be doing quite unconsciously.

The aim is to have a gun that when you raise and mount it naturally whilst watching the target - it points where you are looking (i.e. also the target).  You will find that you don't consciously 'see' the gun, rib, bead(s) etc. as you confidence in the fit builds and can 100% concentrate on the target

Note that no-one can fit a gun standing in a gunshop whilst trying to sell you a gun. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Amen to the above!

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Shearwater said:

The easiest/cheapest way is to part exchange your gun for another at your local gun dealer and he will make sure the new one fits

Hello, as above would be my choice to, 

[London Best]

The OP says he thinks the gun fit is, “not far off”.  From what he describes on length and cast it sounds as if it is a long way off.

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Shearwater said:

The easiest/cheapest way is to part exchange your gun for another at your local gun dealer and he will make sure the new one fits

I cannot agree.  It will give you a different gun, different fit, might be fine, but very possibly different problems. 

Most local gun dealers are NOT fitters and having a dealer choose a gun he thinks fits from his racks and telling you that is the perfect fit etc., is unlikely to be right (in my opinion).  You may get lucky, but it is likely you may get a bit nearer, and think you have a 'perfect fit', but the if you want a gun that fits - the only real way to be sure is to see a gun fitter.  A good dealer may well have an excellent fitter he uses and recommends, but many will sell you a gun based on observations made in the shop - and that is not a good way and may achieve him selling a gun, but may not take you forward at all.

Gun dealers deal in guns

Gun fitters fit guns

Two different things.

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

Gun dealers deal in guns

Gun fitters fit guns

Two different things.

This.

And gunmakers make guns.

And (many) ‘gunsmiths’ ruin them.

Two different things.

[old'un]

7 hours ago, Lucasnorth said:

Hi chaps, 

im after having my new gun fit to me properly and wondered if anyone had any recommendations from experience.

looking to have it done in the West Yorkshire area if possible as I live in Leeds. But willing to travel if needs be. 
I think it’s a little short. A little low in the comb and for some reason that iv never had with any other miroku’s before 

when looking down the rib the centre bead is to the right of the front bead, it’s like having another 2 beads on the right hand side of the front bead and the center bead is the outer one, hope that makes sence😄

land before anyone asks. I bought the gun un seen on its outstanding condition. Thinking it would fit ok. And it’s not far off to be fair but I’d rather it be spot on. The gun is a Miroku 3800. 
thanks in advance. 
 

lucas

Is it possible that the gun has left hand cast, are you left handed?

[johnphilip]

I may get shot down here , but if you have a gun fitted , then logically  what ever your wearing on the day of fitting you should wear the same everytime your out . Gunfit does not take into consideration  the seasons were you may wear more or less clothing. 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

I may get shot down here , but if you have a gun fitted , then logically  what ever your wearing on the day of fitting you should wear the same everytime your out . Gunfit does not take into consideration  the seasons were you may wear more or less clothing. 

No - not shot down at all - in fact you are logically quite correct, but in practice you should go for fitting in something akin to normal shooting wear (i.e. not just a t shirt!).  There is some tolerance IF you start with the right fit, but yes, clothes do make a small difference.

Edited October 23, 2020 by JohnfromUK

[Walker570]

As above. Wear what you would normally wear to go shooting. Clay shooter/clayvest   Rough shooter/ Barbour or similar, Driven shooter is more difficult because the sport varies from Mid August to end January probably starting in shirt sleaves and ending wih a vest thick shirt jumper and waterproof coat. I had two guns fitted and on both occasions I just put on my average normal mid Nov/Dec coat/shirt etc.  That was 40yrs ago and I have not changed shape that much and both of those guns just work i do not have to think,  just look at the bird and that is how it should be.Money well spent.  My little 410 just felt right in the shop and I shoot it in the same way.  There is a very good American instructor on youtube and he says don't look at the gun rib, if you point with your finger it doesn't have sights on it does it.  However your comment regarding the barrels being out of line suggests the gun does not fit you well.  I think once fitted correctly you will not have to bother your brain looking at the rib etc because it will be pointing in the right place anyway, the rest is up to you.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Or have two butt pads, a longer one for the warm months and a shorter version for when more layers are worn.

Edited October 23, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Gordon R]

Quote

From experience most people don’t really understand gun fit and many don’t know they don’t.

Correct.

Quote

I may get shot down here , but if you have a gun fitted , then logically  what ever your wearing on the day of fitting you should wear the same everytime your out . Gunfit does not take into consideration  the seasons were you may wear more or less clothing. 

I have had the same gun for 8 years. It fits me perfectly. Last Sunday, it felt a bit cold, so I put on a neck warmer and an extra fleece. After a couple of stands, I noticed I was struggling to get my head on to the stock properly, because of the clothing. Took the neck warmer off, which almost solved the problem and pushed my head down a little more firmly. Clothing can make a real difference.. 

[oowee]

13 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Correct.

I have had the same gun for 8 years. It fits me perfectly. Last Sunday, it felt a bit cold, so I put on a neck warmer and an extra fleece. After a couple of stands, I noticed I was struggling to get my head on to the stock properly, because of the clothing. Took the neck warmer off, which almost solved the problem and pushed my head down a little more firmly. Clothing can make a real difference.. 

Do you reckon gun fit is as important for shooting vermin as clays? I am using two or three different guns none of which have been fitted and most of the time I can swap from one to the other without issue. Wild birds maybe don't have the uniformity of flight of clays and shot starting positions vary more with wild birds than the common starting position with clays so the mount is likely to be more variable? What do you think? 

[JohnfromUK]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Do you reckon gun fit is as important for shooting vermin as clays? I am using two or three different guns none of which have been fitted and most of the time I can swap from one to the other without issue. Wild birds maybe don't have the uniformity of flight of clays and shot starting positions vary more with wild birds than the common starting position with clays so the mount is likely to be more variable?

I know people who can pick up most 'normal' guns and shoot 'fairly well' with them; for example a good friend of mine is much taller, broader and generally larger than me.  I'm quite small at about 5'8", 11 st and shoot a 14 1/2" stock - he is about 6'4", 15 st and shoots a long stock - and yet he can shoot quite well with my guns, though it requires some deliberate mounting.  In contrast, I can barely mount his gun and can only shoot it rather averagely pre mounted and suspect I couldn't take an overhead shot.  It is just too long for me to mount using my normal technique.

The thing with a fitted gun is that you just concentrate on the target and shoot.  No worries about fit, mounting high enough in the shoulder, getting the cheek on the stock - moving the head - just watch the target and shoot.  I don't think the type of target makes a lot of difference - though if you have to 'adapt' to an ill fitted gun - it makes you slower and may be more difficult in say overhead shots.

In my case, I am right shouldered, left eyed (so just blink my left eye when shooting), and the style I was taught was the 'follow the smoke trail and pull through' type where you are actually mounting the gun as you begin the 'follow the smoke trail' part with the muzzles as you mount.  For me anyway, it gets the gun moving and works with a light fast handling gun with significant cast (for the right shoulder) can be shot without thinking of the gun at all - and it is a fast and instinctive action.  Guns with no cast don't work for me as I find I have to 'lean over' the stock to ensure my eye aligns with the rib and alter my focus to do so - which means a fractional delay whilst I refocus on the target.  I can do it - but it needs thought and is not instinctive and makes shots slower spoiling the timing.

When you dry mount a gun - such as in a shop, you inevitably tend to look at the rib/bead (because there isn't a target on which to focus) and you are trying to see if the gun can be 'aligned' to your eye.  If you can easily align your eye - there is a tendency to think - Yes - it fits!  But that only means that by concentrating on the gun you can make yourself fit the gun - which is not the way it should be. 

When the gun really fits - you have no perception of either the rib or bead - just hopefully the broken clay/birds head folding back that indicates success.

That is the best way I can try and explain it.

[Scully]

I have a mate who is well into Miroku shotguns and has been for decades. He insists that the MK 38 and MK 3800 have totally different handling characteristics, with one handling like a Miroku and the other a Browning 525, because that’s what one of them is, although I can’t recall which one! Whether he’s right or not I have no idea, but I thought it May be of interest and worth mentioning. 
Are you closing your eyes before and while you dry mount the gun? I do this with all my guns on a regular basis, with the aid of a mirror. 
Have you tried it with a comb raiser on or with a stock extension to see what difference it makes? You can codge either with a bit of creative thinking, just to see what effect it has. 
Unless you consistently mount the gun in the same place each and every single time you mount that gun then you’re wasting your money having it fitted in my opinion. 
 

[Scully]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Do you reckon gun fit is as important for shooting vermin as clays? I am using two or three different guns none of which have been fitted and most of the time I can swap from one to the other without issue. Wild birds maybe don't have the uniformity of flight of clays and shot starting positions vary more with wild birds than the common starting position with clays so the mount is likely to be more variable? What do you think? 

I think the two important, but for wing shooting fit is crucial. As you know with clays we have the luxury of knowing where the bird is coming from and where it’s going, and if we choose to can pre-mount the gun just as we call for it, or as some do start with gun up. 
I don’t do it as often as I once did, but I used to do a lot of rabbit shooting, either bolted by ferrets or combine, and with either you don’t know exactly where or when it’s going to happen ( it can happen behind you!🙂) so fit has to be bang on, which is why I dry mount my guns on a regular basis. Muscle memory is a marvellous thing. 
 

[The Heron]

On 23/10/2020 at 12:51, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Or have two butt pads, a longer one for the warm months and a shorter version for when more layers are worn.

Exactly. 

[Salopian]

Try Brian Webster , B K Webster Gunsmith , West Tansfield , Ripon , Yorkshire , tell him I recommended you to him , he will look after you and do a good job.

[Taileron]

On 23/10/2020 at 17:28, Scully said:

I have a mate who is well into Miroku shotguns and has been for decades. He insists that the MK 38 and MK 3800 have totally different handling characteristics, with one handling like a Miroku and the other a Browning 525, because that’s what one of them is
 

I had my 32” 525 “fitted” at on rather posh and expensive RFD, couldn’t hit a barn door with it. I then changed my gun multiple times until I ended up with an MK38, 32” with a trap fore-end, which I can hit a barn door with. Many people have said the exact same thing to me, a 525 is essentially a MK38 (or vice versa) so much so that I started to believe them and had another go with a mates 525. Blanked two stands at millride, couldn’t even hit the “training birds” with it. My other pal then bought his 30 year old MK 70 out and I had a go with that, i now own one of those, neither has been fitted but I shoot better than I ever have. I only wish I had spent the money on a proper fitting session from a fitter, not an RFD as I must have blown 10 times the cost on PX of guns to luck into finding two that actually fit out of the box. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Taileron