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3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The fact you think kneeling a dog in the guts to stop it jumping up at you says to me you are not even a good dog owner

 

It wasn’t his dog. 
He wasn’t training it.

He wasn’t walking it. 

He wasn’t looking after it. 
 

It was a completely random dog that came over and tried to jump all over him. He gave the dog a negative response and the dog stopped that and didn’t try it again. 

 

One time I was out walking my sister Cavapoo (stupid designer cross, but a lovely pet dog) when two staffies charged over from 2-300 yards away and ploughed into the cavapoo, genuinely intent on killing it. If they hadn’t been muzzled my sisters dog would have been dead in seconds. 
 

I didn’t parade around telling the other dog owner that it’s ‘just not cricket’ to let their dog behave in that way.

 

I didn’t have a quiet word with them that perhaps their dog training was slightly lacking and perhaps they would like to consider alternative methods as their chosen method appeared to be ineffective. 
 

I didn’t ask them if they had perhaps tried positive reinforcement and tried giving the dog a piece of tasty sausage every time it didn’t try and savagely attack and kill someone else’s dog. 
 

 

What I did do, was kick that staffy so bloody hard in the side that I thought I broke my own foot! The dog got a very negative response for its behaviour, and stopped trying to kill the cavapoo. 
 

The owner shouted in protest until I calling him an F’ing idiot and asked him what he expected... after a moment of reflection he said “yeah alright, fair enough!”... 

 

I took no pleasure in kicking that dog. In truth it quite upset me. I don’t go around taking joy in dishing out punishment of any sort to anyone or anything... anyone who enjoys that sort of thing isn’t quite right... but I hardly see Walkedup going around kicking random dogs and taking pleasure in it. 
 

Reading between the lines (which isn’t hard) he notes that If any dog is playing up then a negative will reduce that behaviour. 
 

 

I believe that positive reinforcement is very effective way of training dogs without having to resort to harsh methods, but acting like giving a dog a negative is no longer effective or done in any situation is a bit mad. Dogs learn from one another how to behave, and if one dog over steps the mark another will normally give it a telling off, it’s a simple and effective response to a behaviour. 
 

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8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

It wasn’t his dog. 
He wasn’t training it.

He wasn’t walking it. 

He wasn’t looking after it. 
 

It was a completely random dog that came over and tried to jump all over him. He gave the dog a negative response and the dog stopped that and didn’t try it again. 

 

One time I was out walking my sister Cavapoo (stupid designer cross, but a lovely pet dog) when two staffies charged over from 2-300 yards away and ploughed into the cavapoo, genuinely intent on killing it. If they hadn’t been muzzled my sisters dog would have been dead in seconds. 
 

I didn’t parade around telling the other dog owner that it’s ‘just not cricket’ to let their dog behave in that way.

 

I didn’t have a quiet word with them that perhaps their dog training was slightly lacking and perhaps they would like to consider alternative methods as their chosen method appeared to be ineffective. 
 

I didn’t ask them if they had perhaps tried positive reinforcement and tried giving the dog a piece of tasty sausage every time it didn’t try and savagely attack and kill someone else’s dog. 
 

 

What I did do, was kick that staffy so bloody hard in the side that I thought I broke my own foot! The dog got a very negative response for its behaviour, and stopped trying to kill the cavapoo. 
 

The owner shouted in protest until I calling him an F’ing idiot and asked him what he expected... after a moment of reflection he said “yeah alright, fair enough!”... 

 

I took no pleasure in kicking that dog. In truth it quite upset me. I don’t go around taking joy in dishing out punishment of any sort to anyone or anything... anyone who enjoys that sort of thing isn’t quite right... but I hardly see Walkedup going around kicking random dogs and taking pleasure in it. 
 

Reading between the lines (which isn’t hard) he notes that If any dog is playing up then a negative will reduce that behaviour. 
 

 

I believe that positive reinforcement is very effective way of training dogs without having to resort to harsh methods, but acting like giving a dog a negative is no longer effective or done in any situation is a bit mad. Dogs learn from one another how to behave, and if one dog over steps the mark another will normally give it a telling off, it’s a simple and effective response to a behaviour. 
 

I wasn't going to chip in again but there's a difference there, you've done what you felt necessary to defend your dog and yourself from being attacked by aggressive dogs, walkedup kneed a dog hard on the stomach that was simply jumping up to say hello, he claims he's a dog trainer yet states he wouldn't train an aggressive dog he'd put a bullet in it,the guy clearly hasn't a clue. 

Nowhere have I said you shouldn't give a dog a negative response but a good dog trainer knows that there are far more effective methods that should usually be tried first, so I don't know why your trying to make out I've said otherwise. 

Everyones a dog expert because they own a dog and read a couple of books, which is great until they start spouting nonsense to people who know no better, that's how dogs with serious behavioural issues are born. That's the only reason I got involved in this thread.

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30 minutes ago, fatchap said:

I find bribing my dog with treats works fine, does as he is told gets a treat, misbehaves then I make him watch the cat eat the treat which really upsets him

Now that’s cruelty 🤣

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There is far too much sensitivity about dogs, they are not your baby. I have shot many, many foxes just for attacking pheasants. An aggressive dog near me or my children wouldn’t cause me a moment’s hesitation. People need to be much less hysterically over protective and more realistic about animals. 

Also you are deliberately conflating two issues. Of course I do not use punishment in training. Anyone who has trained HPRs to have the confidence to work and hold point 100s of metres from you knows that the last thing you can do is beat them down. But you do need to set acceptable behaviour and have the steel in you to enforce it. If you set out on the right track from day one then the dog has a lovely, happy life. If you let some eegit baby the dog so much it can’t behave in a way acceptable to society then it’s going to have an awful, awful existence and a bullet would be an act of mercy. You can’t blame the dog, just the soft dopey owner. 

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54 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

There is far too much sensitivity about dogs, they are not your baby. I have shot many, many foxes just for attacking pheasants. An aggressive dog near me or my children wouldn’t cause me a moment’s hesitation. People need to be much less hysterically over protective and more realistic about animals. 

Also you are deliberately conflating two issues. Of course I do not use punishment in training. Anyone who has trained HPRs to have the confidence to work and hold point 100s of metres from you knows that the last thing you can do is beat them down. But you do need to set acceptable behaviour and have the steel in you to enforce it. If you set out on the right track from day one then the dog has a lovely, happy life. If you let some eegit baby the dog so much it can’t behave in a way acceptable to society then it’s going to have an awful, awful existence and a bullet would be an act of mercy. You can’t blame the dog, just the soft dopey owner. 

I am a member of a few "Country" forums and while I do understand your methods as they get results, a majority of dog owners especially a few on these Country forums would not appreciate a comment like the one in bold. We are talking outrage on a biblical scale. And phone calls would be made. One member I won't mention her name would probably be halfway through a four page response to your post wishing every STD imaginable. She is beyond a dog lover, I believe she has 6 and a couple of cats. And from what I have read they pretty much rule her life...literally. Remember one post was about her Pomeranian not letting her on the sofa, she said I should tell her off but she looks soooooooo cute when she snarls. Pretty much says it all really, dogs do what they like and she lets them get away with it because they are sooooo cute My dog has a basket which he sleeps in. If I am on the couch he will sort of ask if he can join me, I have come home from work and caught him sound a sleep on it. And the look of "OH ****!! HE'S HOME AND I'M ON THE SOFA" when he wakes up, needless to say he's off it lively. 

Dogs should know their place in the human home and what I am trying to say is there are many methods of drumming that home. Some frowned upon, some agreed with. I trained my dog to the best of my ability and am still training him, What I would like to know is who taught him " High Five" when he's getting a treat, cute yes but hardly important such as sitting at the curb edge.

 

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1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

There is far too much sensitivity about dogs, they are not your baby. I have shot many, many foxes just for attacking pheasants. An aggressive dog near me or my children wouldn’t cause me a moment’s hesitation. People need to be much less hysterically over protective and more realistic about animals. 

Also you are deliberately conflating two issues. Of course I do not use punishment in training. Anyone who has trained HPRs to have the confidence to work and hold point 100s of metres from you knows that the last thing you can do is beat them down. But you do need to set acceptable behaviour and have the steel in you to enforce it. If you set out on the right track from day one then the dog has a lovely, happy life. If you let some eegit baby the dog so much it can’t behave in a way acceptable to society then it’s going to have an awful, awful existence and a bullet would be an act of mercy. You can’t blame the dog, just the soft dopey owner. 

I'm confusing nothing, I've worked dogs my entire life and for many years have made a living doing so, if I didn't get results I wouldn't be doing very well. 

You clearly haven't a clue and any self professed dog trainer that recommends shooting a dog with behavioural issues rather than solve them is not fit to refer to themselves as such, full stop. 

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Well we disagree and I don’t think we ever will agree. I would happily destroy any dog with aggressive behavioural issues, whilst you wouldn’t. I don’t hold any antipathy towards you or anyone who has a different view to myself. The pounds up here are full with badly trained dogs like that, you could take your pick. These dogs could have all been great, loyal dogs in living homes but some daft owners have ignored or encouraged bad, antisocial or dangerous behaviour and then abandoned the problem for someone else to suffer from. How many times have I had to get a grip of a dangerously out of control dog to be too “he’s a rescue” 🙈 followed by “he only bites/barks/attacks because he’s nervous”. 

The best advice we can all agree is that as when your dog runs up and jumps at the wrong stranger it could end up seriously injured, it is a good idea to train your dog to keep its four paws on the floor - same goes with barking/growling etc 👍

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Sad reading that, Lots of mentions of Pitbulls, officially there is no such breed so what where they? American Kennel club and the UK kennel club do not recognise Pitbulls as a breed of dog. 

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No, it’s just to demonstrate that your so called progress is smoke and mirrors - a fashion. Added to that you’ve not shown any evidence of your handling dogs. 

And what happens when dogs are poorly trained. 

And why you do not let dogs jump up at you or show any aggression. 

Try to argue any of those dogs shouldn’t have been destroyed long before they killed or disfigured children.

People like you who do not see dogs as dangerous are the problem. 

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11 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

No, it’s just to demonstrate that your so called progress is smoke and mirrors - a fashion. Added to that you’ve not shown any evidence of your handling dogs. 

And what happens when dogs are poorly trained. 

And why you do not let dogs jump up at you or show any aggression. 

Try to argue any of those dogs shouldn’t have been destroyed long before they killed or disfigured children.

People like you who do not see dogs as dangerous are the problem. 

You've just demonstrated your an idiot, that's all. 

I don't let dogs jump up either but I don't need to knee them in the guts to achieve it. I don't feel the need to post videos of my dogs, or others I've trained as Im very secure in my ability as a handler, I make part of my living out of it and I don't think I'd be doing very well if I didn't get results. 

As for the random dog attacks you've posted, what has any of that got to do with modern dog training, who's to say any of them, bar maybe the police dog have had any training at all. Like all things, time marches forward and with it our knowledge and understanding gets better, you can stick your rose tinted glasses on and eat a pack of werthers while you go around booting dogs to get results, I'll stick with proven and tried techniques that dont involve harming man's best friend and solving people's issues with problem dogs, you can carry on putting bullets in them. 

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Let’s agree to disagree. You now seem to just be trying to provoke and offend without cause whilst I am happy to have an open discourse.

You keep coming back to this idea of kneeing a dog being recommended as training, which at no point anyone said it was and it would be ridiculous to try and frame it that way. 

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1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

Let’s agree to disagree. You now seem to just be trying to provoke and offend without cause whilst I am happy to have an open discourse.

You keep coming back to this idea of kneeing a dog being recommended as training, which at no point anyone said it was and it would be ridiculous to try and frame it that way. 

That's one thing we can agree on, forcibly kneeing a dog in the stomach is not dog training, but then neither is shooting dogs that you can't be bothered or more likely don't possess the knowledge to train. So as long as you stop giving training advice out which is likely to create more dogs with behavioural issues I have to sort out we'll leave it there. 

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Trying to twist words when they are printed in black and white just paragraphs above only highlights the ludicrous baiting that is being attempted. Many guns on this forum have shot over my dogs and so I’ve got nothing to hide nor exaggerate. 

I can only apologise to the gentleman who wanted to discuss a simple matter of dog training and we have absolutely nuked it on this ridiculous tangent. I am sure we will meet again on another thread but next time let’s try and keep it relevant 👍

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1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

This is getting as bad as that bloke who's got a vendetta against me because I said that statistically labradors would make better retrievers than HPR's  

Is it the same protagonist? If it is I believe that he doesn't even have a dog but sits in his third floor council flat talking to his budgerigar all day whilst trolling dog owners on social media. 

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3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

This is getting as bad as that bloke who's got a vendetta against me because I said that statistically labradors would make better retrievers than HPR's :lol: 

What's worse is the person responsible for booting that dog in the guys and then moans in the same breath about other peoples dogs with behavioural issues is totally unaware that its people like him who often create these dogs, unfortunately he'll never see it because it's be like trying to explain to a caveman how a mobile phone works, it's that far past his comprehension you can't even have a logical debate about it. 

By the way, I'm with you on the lab question, a dog bred to do a certain task is always more likely, though obviously not guaranteed to exhibit the desired behaviour required to do what their breed was created for. 

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