For The Times They Are A Changing

[marsh man]

I know it's a bit sad but the other afternoon when it started to rain hard I made a cuppa and went and sat in the garage to listen to the radio , sitting there on my comfortable office chair who should come on was Bob Dylan singing that ole classic For The Times They Are A Changing , with all that's going on in the country with the virus and in the shooting field with the talk on the lead ban in the next few years it got me thinking about the changes I have seen since I started shooting around 60 years ago , some I might have forgot and I am sure the good folk on P W will remember them and help me out once again .

At 13 I bought my first gun after doing a Summers job down the seafront , this was no problem as my brother who is a bit older came with me to Darlow's in Norwich , I then had to get a gun licence at the post office for 10/0d ( 50p ) , next I had beg steal and borrow for a box of Yellow Wizard cartridges for 12/6d , shooting on our estuary was free then and you could go both sides which was close on 9 miles .

The first change came when they moved our county boundary in between Norfolk / Suffolk , this made a slight difference because you could shoot wildfowl on a Sunday in Suffolk but not in Norfolk , note I said a slight difference as nobody was sure where the boundary was , more so on a wild Sunday night with plenty of fowl moving about .

At one time we used to pray for hard weather as the old saying was , fouler the weather the better the fowling , then in 1962/63 our prayers were answered with what turned out one of the coldest winters in living memory , all the Broads were frozen over and we had just about every species of fowl you could get , the estuary looking like the Artic circle with massive ice flows that you could stand behind while waiting for a shot , after a few weeks the wading birds were dying in there 100s and the duck were to thin to shoot , then right towards the end of the season W A G B I and no doubt other people put a hard weather ban on wildfowling and that was the first I could remember , since then we have had a few more and we will never shoot fowl in those conditions again , not that I would want to .

Around this time we lost the Waders from the shooting list and a big part of our early season shooting was gone and never to be replaced .

Our next major change was in 1968 when they made the estuary into a nature reserve , you could still get a shooting permit which I did for many years but the nails had started to go into the coffin .

One of the biggest changes to come as far as fowling go's was the lead ban and the move over to non toxic shot , also another change for wild fowlers was the move from the main body W A G B I to the upmarket sounding B A S C .

Now I was well into pigeon shooting and everything was going well , dead easy to get perms and once the dealers could export pigeons you could get good money for the dead pigeons , as an example we could buy cartridges ( Baikal ) at £40 a 1000 and Pigeons were making 40/45p each with small and feral pigeons 15 /20p each , over the years the price of dead pigeons went down and now there is very little demand for frozen pigeons .

Moving on to near the present times , last year three people managed to stop shooting pigeons with a change on the General Licence and the threat will still be there for the years ahead , then this year it was stopped again due to the virus , now we are back up and running but with all what is going on around us we have to ask ourselves for how long .

I have no doubt left a few changes out and some like price increases are to be expected , so what other ones have you seen ?

I haven't got round to game shooting yet , but like Bob Dylan said , The Times They Are A Changing .

THANKS    MM

 

[JDog]

A good post MM.

I cant bear to think about those things. I have had the very best of sport in my life time. Those that follow may not be so lucky.

[Westley]

Yep, I too had a 10 bob gun licence, oh, and do not forget the dog licence at 7 shillings and 6 pence  !  Shot thousands of Baikal and Sellior and Bellot catridges, probably why I need to use an auto on occasions, when the right shoulder demands it  ! A lot of my shooting is now under bricks and mortar and there is still more to come. I stick to clays now, far less hassle.

[Walker570]

10/- gun license, now your taking me back aways.  I had access to my grandfathers 12 gauge anytime I needed it and he bought me a bolt action 410 on my 12th birthday (1952)  I think your about right with the price of cartridges but 410s back then where about the same. I used to shoot the all brass cases as they where the only ones I could buy at the local newspaper shop.  We had a big double egg box full of 12 gauge ...all sorts left over from the Home Guard... all with the little black arrow stamped on them.

Things have changed dramatically since those days, when a 12yr old walking down the village street with a 410 or even a 12 gauge under his arm didn't bat an eyelid.

I suppose I still look back at those years as the good old days, but I only saw it through the eyes of a young kid. 

62/63 saw me break all records for falling off a Lambretta and I remember have a day off and sitting in an Uncles field pigeon shooting over a kale field with a foot of snow everywhere. A covey of grey partridge came over the hedge from behind me and I snapped shot and 'browned' four of them.

[Jacko3275]

I’m just getting started at a late age really  but live in hope the things a do not change too much or disappear as I have got a buzz for pigeon shooting that I think is some of the best sport/hobby/job  ever whether it is field craft to pull them in close or hit that one beautiful long one while flightline shooting  fingers crossed I will be able to do it for may more years 

[mossy835]

im sure there will be a few years left for us.

[Farmboy91]

I was talking to the old boy in Gallyons recently about shooting and fishing etc and how things have changed. Throughly enjoy listening to his stories, much the same as I do reading the ones by you older lot on here 🤭.

The best days of fieldsports have long gone and to me it's sad that I didn't get to experience it. 

Thanks for sharing MM 👍

[marsh man]

45 minutes ago, Westley said:

Yep, I too had a 10 bob gun licence, oh, and do not forget the dog licence at 7 shillings and 6 pence  !  Shot thousands of Baikal and Sellior and Bellot catridges, probably why I need to use an auto on occasions, when the right shoulder demands it  ! A lot of my shooting is now under bricks and mortar and there is still more to come. I stick to clays now, far less hassle.

I must have also forgot the dog licence when it was in force as I can never remember getting one , same as the game licence , the village where I worked had several shooters who done a bit pigeon shooting and they turned up on the cock shoot at the end of the season , in those days we had two cock days , one for the beaters and another for estate staff and the helpers , one day I was asked by the secatary if I could go to the village post office to buy the boss a game licence , when I went in the shop and told the owner what I wanted she took ages finding the book that were the licences , after a while she finally found it and low and behold the last person to buy one was the same bloke who I wanted one for , no one in the village had bought one , so most , if not all who were on the cock day never had a game licence 

[captainhastings]

The days of the country side as we new it are gone. The  little bits that are left are going. In ten years time if you mention a longnet no one will have a bloody clue what your on about. I am hoping for a grand son so I can get the little fella sneaking around at night with a net lol

[clangerman]

never knew how good it was until gone i would not walk through the village with a 12 bore on my arm now and i have a license these days 

[greylag]

I don't think there were many had a game licence,I bought one once,only because I had been invited to a day's shooting,a friend of mine asked the girl at the p.office for a game licence and she gave a bit of a blank look and asked what type of game he wanted it for.

So many things have changed,but there must be a future for us,we can't let people who are anti everything to stop us.The countryside and the wildlife will be the poorer for the loss.

[wymberley]

11 hours ago, marsh man said:

Re the Game Licence

Couldn't help but laugh.

Went on to the farm one day and the farmer called me over. This was just a few weeks after he'd phoned saying that there was 2 foxes after the free range hens and which were then both (foxes) dead within 20 minutes of the call. As you're doing all the work, he explained, and "the two idiot lots" - this is what he called the two syndicates that had the rights on the land he tenanted -  have now packed it in, I've put the rights on my tenancy, they're yours as a thank you. Consequently, I thought I'd better play it fair and get a game licence which I did from the main town post office. And, yep, when I renewed it a year later my name was the last one in the book.

Still got this - Father kept it - my first one.

Cracking first post.

 

[The Heron]

What a great post brought back many happy memories of my friend and myself going ferriting two on one bike ferrits in a hessian sack and a single barrel baikal. 

Happy days. 

[Gas seal]

Hi don’t forget the instructions on the back.  always got asked for the gun and dog license . The gun licence was to carry and use, nothing about keeping. I used to borrow neighbours guns they said they didn’t need a license unless they took the gun out. 

[marsh man]

27 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Couldn't help but laugh.

Went on to the farm one day and the farmer called me over. This was just a few weeks after he'd phoned saying that there was 2 foxes after the free range hens and which were then both (foxes) dead within 20 minutes of the call. As you're doing all the work, he explained, and "the two idiot lots" - this is what he called the two syndicates that had the rights on the land he tenanted -  have now packed it in, I've put the rights on my tenancy, they're yours as a thank you. Consequently, I thought I'd better play it fair and get a game licence which I did from the main town post office. And, yep, when I renewed it a year later my name was the last one in the book.

Still got this - Father kept it - my first one.

Cracking first post.

 

Cheers wymberley , I have also got three of my early 10/0d licences , 62 / 63 and 64 , I see your one was in 58 and was still 10s , so do you , or anyone else know when the 10 bob licence started ? , I know when it finished as we had to start filling forms in and get a photo taken , for someone who found it easier to go and shoot a couple of duck in the pitch dark than filling up a form with words that had more than four letters in, this was was certainly a candidate to be in the major changes list .

Back to the game licence , we had a cock day many years ago where the head keeper at the time lined the guns out around the edge of the field that border the road that ran through the village , the only house that was on the end of the field used to be the Police house / station , this was occupied by a ex police inspector who was not that happy seeing birds shot , anyhow , just as the drive finished a police car pulled up and the driver headed towards the keeper and told him they have had a complaint of people shooting to near to the road , he then started to take names and addresses from one or two who were standing near by while others seem to disappear through the edge and come back with a stick instead of a gun , after the keeper told him we were all well within the law he went away and said he would come back and see him when the shoot was finished , one of the guns was the retired estate agent and knew the local police force well , he must have had a word with the right person and we never heard another thing about the complaint , from then on there was talk about getting a licence for part of the season but for how long it took for the ole boys to make there minds up about spending a few bob the game licence ended up being abolished   

[wymberley]

28 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Cheers wymberley , I have also got three of my early 10/0d licences , 62 / 63 and 64 , I see your one was in 58 and was still 10s , so do you , or anyone else know when the 10 bob licence started ? , I know when it finished as we had to start filling forms in and get a photo taken , for someone who found it easier to go and shoot a couple of duck in the pitch dark than filling up a form with words that had more than four letters in, this was was certainly a candidate to be in the major changes list .

Back to the game licence , we had a cock day many years ago where the head keeper at the time lined the guns out around the edge of the field that border the road that ran through the village , the only house that was on the end of the field used to be the Police house / station , this was occupied by a ex police inspector who was not that happy seeing birds shot , anyhow , just as the drive finished a police car pulled up and the driver headed towards the keeper and told him they have had a complaint of people shooting to near to the road , he then started to take names and addresses from one or two who were standing near by while others seem to disappear through the edge and come back with a stick instead of a gun , after the keeper told him we were all well within the law he went away and said he would come back and see him when the shoot was finished , one of the guns was the retired estate agent and knew the local police force well , he must have had a word with the right person and we never heard another thing about the complaint , from then on there was talk about getting a licence for part of the season but for how long it took for the ole boys to make there minds up about spending a few bob the game licence ended up being abolished   

1920 from the Post Office, but see this:

https://www.shootersrightsassociation.co.uk/journal-60

Because I wasn't in the UK for long - in Aden when father sent me out the forms for the indestructible white one -  and I can't remeber the need for a photo for those.

[hawkfanz]

u missed out 1968 when the post office gun licience ended and police issued ones came in.luckily we had a jp on our shift in the glass works,he countersigned all our applications for the new licience.

[Walker570]

23 minutes ago, hawkfanz said:

u missed out 1968 when the post office gun licience ended and police issued ones came in.luckily we had a jp on our shift in the glass works,he countersigned all our applications for the new licience.

Yep, I was a country Bobby that year and my in box suddenly became filled with applications that I had to go out and verify. No department handling it then. The local village policeman went around and sorted it.  Definitely the good old days of common sense before the input of the highly educated in 1974 and it basically went down from there on.

[CharlieT]

7 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Yep, I was a country Bobby that year and my in box suddenly became filled with applications that I had to go out and verify. No department handling it then. The local village policeman went around and sorted it.  Definitely the good old days of common sense before the input of the highly educated in 1974 and it basically went down from there on.

I can't remember anyone in the village ever buying an old post office gun license or ever been asked to show one, but I do remember when those white ones came in. Our village Bobby used to always do his licensing rounds on a Sunday morning around breakfast time and never once refused a fry up. Dear old chap, he was a reliable source of local info and could always be relied upon to tell us village lads where he'd seen an old fox skulking around when doing his early morning rounds. When a couple of the Estate keepers caught a couple of us poaching and took us to the police house he spent ages trying to talk them out of insisting we were prosecuted, regrettably he failed and we were summoned to court and fined. Interestingly, neither our Bobby nor the court asked to see our gun or game license. 

 

[wymberley]

17 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

I can't remember anyone in the village ever buying an old post office gun license or ever been asked to show one, but I do remember when those white ones came in. Our village Bobby used to always do his licensing rounds on a Sunday morning around breakfast time and never once refused a fry up. Dear old chap, he was a reliable source of local info and could always be relied upon to tell us village lads where he'd seen an old fox skulking around when doing his early morning rounds. When a couple of the Estate keepers caught a couple of us poaching and took us to the police house he spent ages trying to talk them out of insisting we were prosecuted, regrettably he failed and we were summoned to court and fined. Interestingly, neither our Bobby nor the court asked to see our gun or game license. 

 

I never saw my first two although the second one may not have existed as I asked if I could not have it as I didn't actually have a gun at that time. I had no option but to have the first one though. It's the "carry and use" bit. ATC night and in a break a few of us were trying out a pistol that one of the lads had refurbished. All was OK until one guy decided to aim at a bush instead of the tree we had been shooting at and from behind said bush appeared Plod shouting don't shoot. We're now all up in front of the CO and Plod was very apologetic explaining that he was in the park trying to catch some vandals which were attempting to destroy the shelters, but he was not able to "uncatch" us. It ended up with an invitation. We all had a letter inviting us to "buy" the licence we should have had at the time but didn't and also the one we now also needed. Apart from the guy whose pistol it was, we all asked to be let off the second one which was accepted. In view of this I thought it prudent to cough up when I did get a gun a couple of months later.

[Gas seal]

Hi Hawkfanz the start of the police licence. My doctor signed for my brother and myself then charged me a pound. I think the new licence was a pound for three years. Cheaper than the post office one but look were we are now..

[old'un]

1 hour ago, CharlieT said:

I can't remember anyone in the village ever buying an old post office gun license or ever been asked to show one, but I do remember when those white ones came in. Our village Bobby used to always do his licensing rounds on a Sunday morning around breakfast time and never once refused a fry up. Dear old chap, he was a reliable source of local info and could always be relied upon to tell us village lads where he'd seen an old fox skulking around when doing his early morning rounds. When a couple of the Estate keepers caught a couple of us poaching and took us to the police house he spent ages trying to talk them out of insisting we were prosecuted, regrettably he failed and we were summoned to court and fined. Interestingly, neither our Bobby nor the court asked to see our gun or game license. 

 

Had a similar experience in my wayward youth, me and my mate had a small farm we shot that boarded acres of disused coal board land, it was a haven for ducks and game, it became part of our walk about (unofficially) one day after shooting a couple of ducks, one pheasant and three partridges we made our way back to the farm, out of nowhere two coppers approached us and asked us what we had shot, opening the game bag to reveal our efforts one of the coppers said, very nice bet you will enjoy them, after a bit of a chat they informed us someone had complained about us shooting the wildlife and the matter would be reported to the coal board and they went on there way, about three weeks later we were summoned to court and fined £5 each for armed trespass on coal board land.

again no one asked to see our gun or game license, that was in 1966/7 I wonder what would have happened if that was yesterday? Armed response no doubt and all that follows that.

[JDog]

My regret about changing times is not about gun licences or dog licences or intolerance. My reflections are that as a late teenager and young man I used to be invited to shoot wild Grey partridges in East Yorkshire and when the bag would be anything between 30 and 50 brace.

One great joy for me here in the Lincolnshire Wolds is to see them again, not in prolific numbers but enough to please me. 

[hawkfanz]

i still see a few greys on my perms,but way back they were our mainstay walkedup target,but i havent raised agun to them in years,dont suppose i will again,unless numbers suddenly surge.

[wymberley]

14 minutes ago, JDog said:

My regret about changing times is not about gun licences or dog licences or intolerance. My reflections are that as a late teenager and young man I used to be invited to shoot wild Grey partridges in East Yorkshire and when the bag would be anything between 30 and 50 brace.

One great joy for me here in the Lincolnshire Wolds is to see them again, not in prolific numbers but enough to please me. 

Well said.

I was just getting ready to post the following in the Bluefin Tuna thread, but in view of your comment, it's probably just as applicable here - if not more so:

"I would settle for simply being able to once again catch the odd bass on occasion."