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20 minutes ago, alan123shooting said:

Yes I wish people would stop comparing ATAs to a Beretta  they are as different as chalk and cheese, I don’t like the way Berettas handle never have, never will, the handling of my SP elegance is great and it suits me but that’s me, may not be for everyone. I have owned  it for a year, it been fine, however this subject has been done to death. 


Nothing wrong with that at all Alan, appreciate it for what it is 👍🏻

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12 minutes ago, London Best said:

As others have been trying to point out, there is a secondhand market which allows “mere plebs” (your words, not mine) to purchase better quality stuff. 

Well someone must have bought them new in the first place ?
Or the 2nd hand market wouldnt be fed , would it ?

And 'quality' is subjective, ask anyone whos owned a Range Rover.

8 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

It is a pretty middle class hobby. 

I dont agree with that , maybe it was once, but its very accessible these days.

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1 minute ago, London Best said:

Well, this ‘mere pleb’ would rather have a secondhand Jaguar/Audi than a new Vauxhall/Renault. 

Apples with apples .
New Vauxhalls , Renaults and Fords arent the 'cheap' cars they were, and reliability and quality wise, you might be surprised at who comes out on top.
As far as second hand Jags go, if the body hasnt fallen to bits, the engine and box soon will.
Older Audis, yes , Ill give you that, but repairs can be expensive when needed.

Second hand Berretta with no warranty , or ATA with, at the same price or cheaper ?
Its a no brainer Im afraid for someone just starting out.

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1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

 

Second hand Berretta with no warranty , or ATA with, at the same price or cheaper ?
Its a no brainer Im afraid for someone just starting out.

It is certainly a no brainier to anyone who knows anything about shotguns!

Incidentally, I have an ATA baseball cap in bright orange which I don’t really need. It was sent to me by a friend who attended the ATA launch at a gun shop somewhere. If you would like it PM me and I will post it to you.

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Just now, London Best said:

Incidentally, I have an ATA baseball cap in bright orange which I don’t really need. It was sent to me by a friend who attended the ATA launch at a gun shop somewhere. If you would like it PM me and I will post it to you.

Im good thank you :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

Second hand Berretta with no warranty , or ATA with, at the same price or cheaper ?
Its a no brainer Im afraid for someone just starting out.

This is the position I was in, and I brought the ATA thinking that well if anything goes wrong, I'll be covered, but I ended up out of pocket and and left with a gun I had lost all confidence in.

Ok, a big part of that was down to the two RFD's that messed both me and the gun about, but had I brought that Beretta in the first place, it most likely wouldn't have happened. 

I'm far from a gun snob, I've had plenty of cheap and nasties that have been treated the same as the more expensive ones I've had. It's not nice to see someone having issues with any gun, as Scully said, it can lead to a ruined day. When my ATA double discharged we was out on the clays and it was extremely disappointing and scary to be honest, then having to cut the day short to get it back to the shop, on the other side of that it's good to see that people are getting good use from them and not having problems, I just don't agree with the whole ' Beretta in disguise' because they simply aren't.

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15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I dont agree with that , maybe it was once, but its very accessible these days.

 

Accessible if you own your own estate? 
 

Rough shooting is becoming harder and harder to come by, more and more people competing for less and less land. 
 

Years ago driven shooting was £20-25 a bird. Now it’s creeping up to £40-50 a bird. 


Shotgun - £50-1000 for an ‘entry level gun’. Although on average say £500. 
 

You can join a fowling club for about £200, or go clay shooting say every other week, 50 clays and 50 carts about £30. That’s average £60 a month, £720 a year. 
 

Clothing, travel, accessories etc, all on top of that. 
 

I don’t see many people finishing up on the local shoot and then heading off to the food bank. 

Everyone I know that Shoots is middle class, or if they are what would normally be classed as ‘working class’ they are often in a skilled trade or role. They don’t work down B&M’s. 

 

 

Whilst there are some people who are able to get decent walked up shooting and rough shooting, where you can buy a £50 side by side and have good sport every year, they are few and far between. 
 

 

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41 minutes ago, London Best said:

As others have been trying to point out, there is a secondhand market which allows “mere plebs” (your words, not mine) to purchase better quality stuff. 

I like being a pleb as it means that I don't disappoint anyone which is handy when you come to ask for a favour.

34 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

It is a pretty middle class hobby. 
 

 

Nah. Photography is a hobby - shooting is a way of life.

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5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Second hand Berretta with no warranty , or ATA with, at the same price or cheaper ?
Its a no brainer Im afraid for someone just starting out.

This.

Good luck finding a SP for 'pleb money' from a dealer.  Maybe £900 if you're lucky.

Compare that to £600, buy it now, with a warranty (whether or not you think it's worth having).

Like @alan123shooting said, I actually prefer the handling of the ATA over an SP.  Bit more mass, and balance slightly further aft.  Maybe my build is more like the average Turkish male!

 

59 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Dont ATA make parts for Beretta?

Allegedly were a sub-contract manufacturer and made the barrels for lower end models, such as the Silver Pigeon.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

This is the position I was in, and I brought the ATA thinking that well if anything goes wrong, I'll be covered, but I ended up out of pocket and and left with a gun I had lost all confidence in.

That shouldnt have happened, but as you say , its an issue with the 2 shops, and Ive made no secret of my lack of confidence in SGC.

 

7 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

but had I brought that Beretta in the first place, it most likely wouldn't have happened. 

Thats a bit of a wild assumption, guns, especially 2nd hand ones break..lots !

 

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Accessible if you own your own estate? 

You dont need your own estate to go and shoot some clays Lloyd !
And finding some rough shooting isnt a matter of wealth, but location.

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16 minutes ago, London Best said:

Incidentally, I have an ATA baseball cap in bright orange which I don’t really need. It was sent to me by a friend who attended the ATA launch at a gun shop somewhere. If you would like it PM me and I will post it to you.

I love orange!

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9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Whilst there are some people who are able to get decent walked up shooting and rough shooting, where you can buy a £50 side by side and have good sport every year, they are few and far between. 

 

 

Most, if not all, of those £50 SxS’s would originally be FAR better made than a gun which sells at £5/600 retail today.

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2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

That shouldnt have happened, but as you say , its an issue with the 2 shops, and Ive made no secret of my lack of confidence in SGC.

 

Thats a bit of a wild assumption, guns, especially 2nd hand ones break..lots !

Have to disagree, I've had a beaten up A303 sporter, which never missed a beat, only failing to cycle comp x, but I can't hold that against it lol I then had the 686 special, which I had to part with last Christmas unfortunately. It balanced on the hinge pin, swung beautifully and again, never let me down once. The last one is the one I still have, a 687 f/c which again, has never missed a beat and handles spot on.  All of those guns were from 85-87 going by the serial numbers and that a303 had definitely had a hard life. 

Based on that I wouldn't hesitate to buy another older Beretta, as I said above I wouldn't by a new one, to me a new silver pigeon isn't worth 3x the price of a base ATA, they dont have the feel or I don't know, just that little something the older guns do. 

My local RFD has a 687 at the moment, m/c with two flush and two extended 30" barrels all for £850, to me that represents great value for money and a great start for either clays or game.

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9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You dont need your own estate to go and shoot some clays Lloyd !
And finding some rough shooting isnt a matter of wealth, but location.

 

When I worked out the cost of going clay shooting twice a month and shooting 100 clays and carts it would be cheaper to join a smallish driven pheasant syndicate and a slab of game carts for the season. 

 

As I said about rough shooting, nothing to do with wealth but a lot of luck. 
 

There are a lot of people who wish they had it. 
 

 

 

Lurchers and Terriers always used to be the more ‘working class’ country sport. 

 

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7 minutes ago, London Best said:

Most, if not all, of those £50 SxS’s would originally be FAR better made than a gun which sells at £5/600 retail today.

Why are they £50 then :lol:

 

2 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

Have to disagree, I've had a beaten up A303 sporter, which never missed a beat, only failing to cycle comp x, but I can't hold that against it lol I then had the 686 special, which I had to part with last Christmas unfortunately. It balanced on the hinge pin, swung beautifully and again, never let me down once. The last one is the one I still have, a 687 f/c which again, has never missed a beat and handles spot on.  All of those guns were from 85-87 going by the serial numbers and that a303 had definitely had a hard life. 

Ive got a Rem 1100 , 50 years old , it just shoots on and on , but sometimes its impractical to use, like I say , when the ATA packs up out of warranty, Ill buy another, its paid for itself already as far as Im concerned.

3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

When I worked out the cost of going clay shooting twice a month and shooting 100 clays and carts it would be cheaper to join a smallish driven pheasant syndicate and a slab of game carts for the season. 

So you can join a syndicate that runs twice a month , every month , and it costs the same as doing clays twice a month ?
Must be a cheap syndicate that.

But thats not really what you mean is it ?

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2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Why are they £50 then :lol:

 

Ive got a Rem 1100 , 50 years old , it just shoots on and on , but sometimes its impractical to use, like I say , when the ATA packs up out of warranty, Ill buy another, its paid for itself already as far as Im concerned.

Because the barrels are the wrong way round 🤭😂

I don't know, I'm just not a fan of the disposable/throw away culture I guess? I wouldn't knock someone for owning one any more than I would for the car they drive, I just think it doesn't hurt to look past the low price and warranty because there's far more to a gun than that.

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