Next round of smart meters

[clangerman]

41 minutes ago, AVB said:

 

Electric cars will last longer than ICE cars due to less moving parts. Batteries can be replaced/recycled and regardless it’s not the age of batteries that degrade them it’s the charging cycles and they are very efficient at doing that. 

before rushing out to buy a electric car check out the price of replacing the battery something car manufacturers keep very quite about 

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

before rushing out to buy a electric car check out the price of replacing the battery something car manufacturers keep very quite about 

Do car manufacturers routinely quote the cost of replacing an engine? Of course not as most cars are scrapped before the engine needs replacing. Why would it be different for an electric car? 

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, AVB said:

Do car manufacturers routinely quote the cost of replacing an engine? Of course not as most cars are scrapped before the engine needs replacing. Why would it be different for an electric car? 

that’s because the engine will out last the battery version several times over electric cars are one big con if you need a new battery your car is scrap 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Do car manufacturers routinely quote the cost of replacing an engine? Of course not as most cars are scrapped before the engine needs replacing. Why would it be different for an electric car? 

Because a battery is not, and not analogous to an engine .......... which would equate to the electric motor(s). 

Typically a modern petrol/diesel engine lasts a very long time (though you do have to change it's starting battery!) - in 45 years of owning cars I have never had to replace or even have any major work done on an engine.  Keep the oil clean and fresh and the adjustments right and belts etc. good - and they will last decades - or 100's of thousands of miles.

A battery by contrast is only expected to last a number of cycles/years - currently I would suggest around 8 to 10 years.  Although they will get cheaper with time - currently they are VERY expensive.

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

that’s because the engine will out last the battery version several times over electric cars are one big con if you need a new battery your car is scrap 

Absolute bullcrap. There are electric cars on the road that have done 900,000 Kilometres. The design brief for the Tesla was for it to do 1 million miles. I believe the current cost of replacing a set of Tesla batteries is £3,000  (the warranty is 8 years) and getting cheaper all the time  

 

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Because a battery is not, and not analogous to an engine .......... which would equate to the electric motor(s). 

Typically a modern petrol/diesel engine lasts a very long time (though you do have to change it's starting battery!) - in 45 years of owning cars I have never had to replace or even have any major work done on an engine.  Keep the oil clean and fresh and the adjustments right and belts etc. good - and they will last decades - or 100's of thousands of miles.

A battery by contrast is only expected to last a number of cycles/years - currently I would suggest around 8 to 10 years.  Although they will get cheaper with time - currently they are VERY expensive.

I agree that the battery Vs engine comparison is wrong. However, you have been lucky as engines/gearboxes do need replacing. My Defender needed a new engine, albeit after 165,000 miles, and my Range Rover a new auto gearbox after 40,000 miles. Both with full service histories. Things with moving parts will always be prone to breaking. 

[clangerman]

6 minutes ago, AVB said:

Absolute bullcrap. There are electric cars on the road that have done 900,000 Kilometres. The design brief for the Tesla was for it to do 1 million miles. I believe the current cost of replacing a set of Tesla batteries is £3,000  (the warranty is 8 years) and getting cheaper all the time  

as the son in-law is a mot tester and high end diagnostic technician garages call when stumped think i will stick with his advice not to buy a electric car until forced to thanks 

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, AVB said:

Things with moving parts will always be prone to breaking. 

That is true, but also true of things with no moving parts!  Some electric cars have a good reliability record, some less so - though to be fair that is probably less about the power train items.

I agree that batteries are probably quite good now - and will certainly get better.  I would happily have an electric car now for my 'daily use' except that it doesn't make economic sense for me - principally because I do a low mileage and so spend very little on motoring - and the investment in a new (or newish) car of whatever type is not worthwhile - especially when my current 'fleet' costs very little to run.  There is no doubt that (assuming I'm still alive and driving(!)), I will need to swap to one eventually - but not yet.

If I did get an electric 'runabout', I would also need to hire a car for (the very occasional) longer runs (like holidays).

 

[del.gue]

I spent 18 months fitting Smet1 and started to fit the latest Smet2 when i packed it in

They can save you money if you want to watch the display 24/7 but some old people have been panicked by the display and turned off things like their heating.

The only real advantage was no estimated bills. However, it had also been suggested that smart meters, in the future, could help the national grid from crashing should everyone plug their electric car in at the same time.

I have key meter... i pay, use my electric, then buy some more... no bills.

[Bangbangman]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

Because in time we will get 'free' electricity or paid to take it off peak and charged very high rates at peak. You currently use energy you dont need to even though you are are not aware of it. Washing machines, fridges etc can all run off peak no issue. We are also moving to electric cars that may be handy as feeders and off peak offset earning money for the owners. Much of it is mind set. Of course you can have your roast dinner at 1700 but you may have to pay £5 for the privelidge.

The grid is currently dumb where solar from house roofs is mostly burnt off as heat. We want to use this power and put it back in the grid and the grid needs to be more responsive. Electric (with small scale nuclear) will become the power that we rely upon more and more as fossil fuels tail off and we move to 2050 targets. At the same time we dont want to build hundreds and hundreds of new power stations so need to spread loads. 

 

Octopus Agile already has negative pricing periods ("plunge events") where Smart meter users can make (a little bit of) money by using power. Eg. Charging up a power wall or equivalent (like a re-purposed old EV battery array) for use in peak periods (4-7pm)

 

5 hours ago, Fisheruk said:

 

And what happens when they have dug all of the Lithium out of the ground?!

You should Google that (both source of lithium and battery development)

You can recycle/repurpose EV batteries (see above) more than you can oil.

There is a lot of misinformation about EVs, smart meters etc. People seem to be happy to regurgitate this stuff without actually fact checking or doing their own research. If they did, they might be surprised (I was, and made changes, and I'm glad I did.)

 

 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Bangbangman said:

 

Octopus Agile already has negative pricing periods ("plunge events") where Smart meter users can make (a little bit of) money by using power. Eg. Charging up a power wall or equivalent (like a re-purposed old EV battery array) for use in peak periods (4-7pm)

 

 

 

 

That's very interesting. I worked on a number of the smart grid trials with Western Power , the OU and Oxford Uni. We looked to put expended EV batteries into eco homes. An early trial with Nissan was to balance power using EV's but Nissan were at the time reluctant to cycle batteries in case of early failure. 

[Sciurus]

Thanks oowee and John for your response. Call me a cynic, but I just think smart meters are there for energy suppliers to monitor our energy use and help them introduce dynamic pricing. I can certainly see the benefits of charging less for ‘off peak’ electricity but I am blowed if I will give them the ammunition to charge me more on between 6 & 7 pm on a Sunday because they know Mrs Sciurus cooks a nut roast at that time!

I can’t ever envisage suppliers producing so much electricity they have to pay us to use it off peak.

[Bangbangman]

28 minutes ago, Sciurus said:

Thanks oowee and John for your response. Call me a cynic, but I just think smart meters are there for energy suppliers to monitor our energy use and help them introduce dynamic pricing. I can certainly see the benefits of charging less for ‘off peak’ electricity but I am blowed if I will give them the ammunition to charge me more on between 6 & 7 pm on a Sunday because they know Mrs Sciurus cooks a nut roast at that time!

I can’t ever envisage suppliers producing so much electricity they have to pay us to use it off peak.

As per my post above, negative pricing already occurs and those on the Octopus Agile tariff get paid to use power at those times.

 

This is a fact, so you don’t need to envisage it. You can download the OctopusWatch app if you fancy monitoring the prices “live”, out of curiosity. On Octopus’s website you can also download the previous year’s prices for your area (hour by hour- so make plenty of coffee!) to get an idea of hourly costs and how they vary.

These negative-price periods are rare, however, and to get the most out of such a tariff requires more involvement than my family would be bothered with, so I am on a different tariff that is predictable.

 

Most people, myself included, would be better-off on the Agile tariff but find it hard to accept the big variations  from peak to off-peak periods.

[Sciurus]

Thanks, Bangbangman. Very interesting, I have learned something.  I had a look on the Octopus and understood most of it. As you say, it does take some involvement/commitment - much more than I would like to undertake . For a technophobe like me , it does seem to make life far too complicated.

[Bangbangman]

1 hour ago, Sciurus said:

Thanks, Bangbangman. Very interesting, I have learned something.  I had a look on the Octopus and understood most of it. As you say, it does take some involvement/commitment - much more than I would like to undertake . For a technophobe like me , it does seem to make life far too complicated.

That's exactly why I went for their "Go" tariff. Easy compromise without having to nag wife/kids about timings of usage nor buy loads of tech kit to save pennies over the pounds I'm already saving.

 

Edit: For anyone who wants to switch, if you use this referral code you get £50 off your bill (as do I!)

share.octopus.energy/blond-sage-128

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Bangbangman

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Sciurus said:

For a technophobe like me , it does seem to make life far too complicated.

I don't yet have a 'smart' meter, but the idea of a tumbler drier running in the small hours whilst I am asleep upstairs doesn't appeal (fire risk).

[Raja Clavata]

A wholly owned company under Capita Group called SmartDCC have the monopolised contract on implementing the secure network for all smart meters along with the interfaces into all the energy companies.

Their network has greater reach than any cellular network provider in the UK.

I would imagine the network is a key enabler for IoT and there must be numerous business streams to develop based off the back of it 😉

[Sciurus]

John, a few years ago, our tumbler did catch fire six month after we bought it, I and certainly wouldn’t run it at night. However I can see the benefit of using the immersion at night.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Sciurus said:

John, a few years ago, our tumbler did catch fire six month after we bought it, I and certainly wouldn’t run it at night. However I can see the benefit of using the immersion at night.

Yes, I would use an immersion, but heating the water by gas is so cheap (my summer gas costs are about £1 a week, so little incentive to change - even if electricity was much cheaper).

[JohnfromUK]

On 15/11/2020 at 18:11, JohnfromUK said:

I don't yet have a 'smart' meter, but the idea of a tumbler drier running in the small hours whilst I am asleep upstairs doesn't appeal (fire risk).

To update on an old thread, I did eventually (Autumn 2021) have Smart Meters fitted. 

Gas couldn't be done when the fitter arrived on site because he wasn't qualified to remove the old meter I have - and repeated contacts afterwards have made no progress.  So I only had Electricity made 'smart'.  After 6 months Electricity has now stopped working (as a 'smart' meter) and it seems they can't contact it.  So looks like I'm back to manual monthly readings - which now has to be done at the meter as the In Home Display stopped working a few days after the Smart meter.

Don't you just love technology.

[Old Boggy]

43 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

To update on an old thread, I did eventually (Autumn 2021) have Smart Meters fitted. 

Gas couldn't be done when the fitter arrived on site because he wasn't qualified to remove the old meter I have - and repeated contacts afterwards have made no progress.  So I only had Electricity made 'smart'.  After 6 months Electricity has now stopped working (as a 'smart' meter) and it seems they can't contact it.  So looks like I'm back to manual monthly readings - which now has to be done at the meter as the In Home Display stopped working a few days after the Smart meter.

Don't you just love technology.

I have been pestered non stop by Eon to have a smart electric meter fitted and have so far resisted on the basis that the reports I hear have all been quite negative. No doubt that I`ll have to have one fitted eventually, but manage quite well without. I`m still not sure how they will help save the planet, if you are to believe the TV advertisements as I`m sure most people can decide for themselves how to save energy. The only energy (and money) that I see them saving is them not having to carry out meter readings.

OB

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

The only energy (and money) that I see them saving is them not having to carry out meter readings.

I think you are right - but in my case, no real saving as owing to the gas, I still have to send in manual readings, and they still have to visit to check the installation and seals etc.  So far it has been nothing but a waste of everyone's time and money.  I suspect I will end up sending in Electricity readings too - because it is no extra trouble if I have to log on etc to do the gas.

[miki]

On 13/11/2020 at 17:27, The Heron said:

EDF keep telling me that I need one personally I can't see the point in them

I have one, my house 'sits' at around 420W in the day, I can tell at a glance if I have left the garage lights on or if the clay trap batteries are fully charged. I find it quite handy to see what power i'm using at any given moment.

It doesn't cost you anything to have it fitted, my mate doesn't plug his in and keeps it in the drawer. i'd say go for it.

[Ratlegs]

We had one years ago now changed supplier when the new meters were fitted              fitter said they cost 70P a week to run

Binned it

[Dougy]

My last call from EDF 2 weeks ago was again similar to the last one, funny. 

I am being told that having a smart meter will help me with fuel saving, i ask the woman that called me what are the benefits and cost savings of having a meter. 

 

Apparently i was told-

"having a smart meter lets you know how much electricity you will use"

And

"you get an up to date bill showing the amount of fuel that you have used"

So, i asked a couple of questions on these selling points. 

My monthly reading that i supply  you "EDF" with do you receive these ? Yes she replied.

And the monthly on line bill that i can see when i log into my account is that correct ? Yes she replied. 

So what are the benefits of having a smart meter fitted then ? Well you dont have to read the meter as it will be done automatically. 

(Well blow me down with a feather, its not like i need to make a packed lunch and flask up to adventure out into the wilderness to read my meter.)

But where is the cost saving you said i get ? No answer to that question, only to say that i cant be forced into having one. 

 

So basically a load of cow pat