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The BBC's got problems (shocker!)


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58 minutes ago, stagboy said:

Slightly misleading, because in practice if the TV is in a condition to receive live broadcasts they will use this as evidence  for a prosecution. Sadly, over-worked magistrates tend tend to accept such evidence as being compelling. Prosecutors simply say: "If you didn't intend to use the equipment, why was it plugged in to the antenna?" The key bit of the primary legislation (Communications Act 2003) states: 

(3)A person with a television receiver in his possession or under his control who—

(a)intends to install or use it in contravention of subsection (1), or

(b)knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use it in contravention of that subsection,

is guilty of an offence.

 

My TV does not have to connect to an antenna, it all comes through the cable or internet these days but once you have a subscirption and a password to log in with you can watch it on your phone or ipad. So these arguments are getting a lot more complicated

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I quite like the BBC.

I’m not blind to their faults, and I will concede that they have many.

However, on balance, they perform a useful service. Their coverage of news and current affairs at least attempts to be consistent and convey factual information.  I’ve had cause to complain about their “take” on current events many times in the past, and I will undoubtedly have occasion to do so in the future, but in the grand scheme of things they provide a service which would be sorely missed if it were to cease.

 A TV channel which consistently reports current affairs or world events in a manner which always conforms to a particular view of the world provides no useful function.
 

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Most evenings in house a question is asked: "Anything on TV tonight"? 9 times out of 10 the answer is something like: "Nope, as usual". And that's because we don't watch any of the pulp TV which has become the BBC's (and others) bread and butter output.

The BBC rarely produces or commissions any quality drama these days and even when they do the producers are in the iron grip of the "Diversity" and the "Social Conditioning" police which all too often means a loss of reality in order to tick the box labelled We Represent the Nation.

Last night though we watched The Repair Shop and The Fall of Anne Boleyn. These are both bought in products available on non terrestrial channels so I'm confident that when I cancel the licence next May and pull the co-ax aerial cable we won't miss very much.

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2 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

i invited them in because all out stuff was in the van waiting outside. there was absolutely nothing in the house. it was bare. he had a good rummage. but it was funny, they even looked in the kitchen cupboard. toilet, and the fixed wardrobe in the bedroom. it was absolutely bare. 
it was more comical than anything else. he was getting frustrated. because i was winding him up something cronic. (very politely though). 

i know not to let anyone in under any other circumstances.

As he left you should of said haha, we watch it in the attic and watch them come back with a ladder lol

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

That is still live television being broadcast.  People have tried this and come unstuck.  I've removed the word 'live' from my previous post for the avoidance of doubt.  Live means 'as they are broadcast' in this context, not whether the programme was pre-recorded or transmitted live.

 

Correct.  It's the act of watching live TV that requires a licence, not ownership of a device which can.  TVL even say so on their own website

Note the weasely words for point no 2 - live on an online TV service does not mean 'watch youtube videos', it means watch Premier League broadcasts.

I was under the impression it was only bbc, not itv or channel 4?

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We haven’t a tv licence, haven’t for the last two years. We barely watch anything, if we do it’s on amazon prime or similar. My daughter has lots of dvds also. I do have Disney+ but am recently disgusted at their content which you assume to be safe, but my daughter is 6, and it often seems to centralise around tight clothing, snogging etc.

The amount of threatening letters we’ve had from the tv licence people is appalling. They are less often now, but for the first year every two months or so, letter with big words in capital letters in red, things like you’re committing an offence, you will be fined, you can be taken to court. Me and the wife just laugh at them, but you can see how gullible, vulnerable, less educated people could be scared by them, and pay up out of fear.

i deliberately don’t tell them I don’t need a licence. A) because I don’t see why I should have to, you don’t tell the government you don’t need a driving licence, and B) I quite like them wasting their money sending me threatening letters and laughing at them. They cycle from you could be in violation, to an inspector will be in your area soon, we are going to visit your property, you could be fined etc, then back to the beginning. It’s pathetic. Imagine if any other business in the country sent out letters like that! (Other than parking fine people, but they’re a bunch of pirates too!)

I used to appreciate the value, the quality of programmes. But these days it’s mostly reality tv and such like... yawn. 

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3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

All live TV as it is Broadcast.

I suspect that the reason/justification for this is that the actual broadcasting apparatus (transmitters, masts, aerials, cabling, microwave links between transmitter sites etc.) is partly funded from the 'license fee'.

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Regardless whether you feel you should buy a TV licence or not I am surprised that so many people claim not to watch any live broadcast tv at all. I know that a lot is available on catch up etc but no live tv?

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22 minutes ago, AVB said:

Regardless whether you feel you should buy a TV licence or not I am surprised that so many people claim not to watch any live broadcast tv at all. I know that a lot is available on catch up etc but no live tv?

Aside from sport, there are two things I'll actually sit down and watch live. Only Connect and Saving Lives At Sea. Apart from those two, we just don't bother with live any more. My partner will watch all those strictly come-factor-voice-X things, but almost always on catchup

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53 minutes ago, AVB said:

I am surprised that so many people claim not to watch any live broadcast tv at all

When we moved into this house in 2017 I decided it was time not to bother with a TV Licence.  Missus at the time wasn't bothered either way.  So although I'd completely rewired the place, including aerial* connections to every room, I never bothered tying them into a distribution unit/amplifier in the loft.  

In other words, even had I desired it, I couldn't actually receive a live TV broadcast on any of the TVs in the house.

I haven't missed it.

Yes I know, these days the various TV Channel's on-demand services allow you to watch live TV via the IP connection, but I never bother with them.

*Note: it is an aerial, NOT an antenna.

 

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Regardless whether you feel you should buy a TV licence or not

Forgive my pendantry, but feelings don't enter into it, TVL sets out the conditions for requiring a licence on their website - their interpretation of the law as it stands - And if you meet the conditions, you need a licence.  If you don't meet the conditions, then don't get one.  Do not feel coerced into getting one, "just in case".  As a bonus, you do your part to 'defund' Kwis. 😁

 

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42 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

When we moved into this house in 2017 I decided it was time not to bother with a TV Licence.  Missus at the time wasn't bothered either way.  So although I'd completely rewired the place, including aerial* connections to every room, I never bothered tying them into a distribution unit/amplifier in the loft.  

In other words, even had I desired it, I couldn't actually receive a live TV broadcast on any of the TVs in the house.

I haven't missed it.

Yes I know, these days the various TV Channel's on-demand services allow you to watch live TV via the IP connection, but I never bother with them.

*Note: it is an aerial, NOT an antenna.

 

Forgive my pendantry, but feelings don't enter into it, TVL sets out the conditions for requiring a licence on their website - their interpretation of the law as it stands - And if you meet the conditions, you need a licence.  If you don't meet the conditions, then don't get one.  Do not feel coerced into getting one, "just in case".  As a bonus, you do your part to 'defund' Kwis. 😁

 

My point was simply that there are some people who do need a TV licence but don’t have one because they want to defund the BBC. There are other who claim they don’t watch live broadcast TV but probably do and don’t have a TV licence.  Personally I watch a fair bit of broadcast TV and have a licence. Am I happy that it funds the BBC?  No but there is no legal alternative at the moment. 

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17 minutes ago, oowee said:

Happy to pay for my TV licence the cost is negligible and the benefit huge. I would happily pay the licence fee just for the News.

 

I saw today that the BBC news is rated lower than all of the terrestrial news services, even channel 4, in respect of impartiality. 

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25 minutes ago, oowee said:

Happy to pay for my TV licence the cost is negligible and the benefit huge. I would happily pay the licence fee just for the News.

 

Similar, I think that R6 is well worth less than 50p a day, then there is the rugby... Billy bargain.

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27 minutes ago, AVB said:

My point was simply that there are some people who do need a TV licence but don’t have one because they want to defund the BBC. There are other who claim they don’t watch live broadcast TV but probably do and don’t have a TV licence.  Personally I watch a fair bit of broadcast TV and have a licence.

You don't mention the third group, those who don't have a TV Licence and don't need one.  

I suspect (but have no means of knowing) that the 2 groups you mention are a small but vocal minority, with the third group I mentioned making up the silent majority.

894000 people cancelled their licence in FY2018 (TVL's own figures)

I haven't watched broadcast TV in 3 years, other than when visiting my elderly parents, or when someone's had it on in the background when I've visited them (BC, Before COVID).  Crikey the BBC's output was...cloying.  Barely concealed agenda on display in every programme I saw.  What I don't understand is why.  Surely by being so blatant, they are causing people to 'check out', mentally.

Linear television, as it is called, is an irrelevance to anyone under 25 anyway.  In a similar manner, any screen that isn't a touchscreen appears to be broken to the vast majority of people born this century.  Show them a floppy disk "Oh look, grandad's 3D printed a save icon..."

Basically, one way or another, the BBC is going to change the way it is funded.  The question is, will another financial year of record cancellations, and a new MD finally wake them up the necessity of needing to jump before they are pushed?

You'd hope so, but I doubt it.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You don't mention the third group, those who don't have a TV Licence and don't need one.  

I suspect (but have no means of knowing) that the 2 groups you mention are a small but vocal minority, with the third group I mentioned making up the silent majority.

894000 people cancelled their licence in FY2018 (TVL's own figures)

I haven't watched broadcast TV in 3 years, other than when visiting my elderly parents, or when someone's had it on in the background when I've visited them (BC, Before COVID).  Crikey the BBC's output was...cloying.  Barely concealed agenda on display in every programme I saw.  What I don't understand is why.  Surely by being so blatant, they are causing people to 'check out', mentally.

Linear television, as it is called, is an irrelevance to anyone under 25 anyway.  In a similar manner, any screen that isn't a touchscreen appears to be broken to the vast majority of people born this century.  Show them a floppy disk "Oh look, grandad's 3D printed a save icon..."

Basically, one way or another, the BBC is going to change the way it is funded.  The question is, will another financial year of record cancellations, and a new MD finally wake them up the necessity of needing to jump before they are pushed?

You'd hope so, but I doubt it.

 

 

I wasn’t aware of the term ‘linear television’ so thank you for that. I can’t see how the status quo can continue for the simple reason that it’s become impossible to easily differentiate between linear and non-linear TV and therefore enforcement becomes increasingly difficult. I can legally watch a tv show on ITV hub without a licence but can’t watch the same programme when it is broadcast on ITV! And I can’t watch a BBC programme on BBC iPlayer or broadcast  ‘live’ without a licence but I can watch the same programme on Netflix!  impossible to police. 

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15 hours ago, discobob said:

For those of you getting "harassed" with communication from the BBC with their correspondence may I draw your attention to "ferguson v british gas trading ltd" - could make you a bit of money from the BBC

Only if you’ve gone on and told them you don’t need one.

i quite like letting them waste their letters on me...

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On 26/11/2020 at 03:02, 12gauge82 said:

Apart from anything else, I think the BBC is a vile organisation, they send intimidating letters out to everyone, threatening debt collectors and legal action and send people out, demanding to be let in to their homes to anyone who doesn't pay for a licence, including those who legally don't need one. It's amazing it's allowed to go on in todays age, it is effectively state sponsored intimidation,with a presumsion of guilt. 

 

Here here well said👍

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22 hours ago, AVB said:

I wasn’t aware of the term ‘linear television’ so thank you for that. I can’t see how the status quo can continue for the simple reason that it’s become impossible to easily differentiate between linear and non-linear TV and therefore enforcement becomes increasingly difficult. I can legally watch a tv show on ITV hub without a licence but can’t watch the same programme when it is broadcast on ITV! And I can’t watch a BBC programme on BBC iPlayer or broadcast  ‘live’ without a licence but I can watch the same programme on Netflix!  impossible to police. 

Small point but the tvl website specifically names itv hub as one of the ones that does require a licence.

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11 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Small point but the tvl website specifically names itv hub as one of the ones that does require a licence.

Only if you use it to watch live TV (source money saving expert). For example. Watch Coronation Street live (on TV or hub) needs licence. Watch Corry on catch up on ITV hub doesn’t need licence. Watch Eastenders live or on catch-up on BBC iPlayer and you need a licence! 
 

on a slightly different matter but still BBC related. BBC news receives lowest impartiality score of any of the British rivals

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1365443/bbc-news-bias-impartiality-uk-viewers-ofcom-report-tim-davie-social-media-rules-presenters/amp

Just now, wigeon jim said:

So if I have sky but don't watch live programs on BBC (which I don't ) are you saying I don't need a  TVL ?   Jim.

As long as you don’t watch any live TV from any channel not just BBC. 

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