Environmental 'vandal', or considerate landowner?

[Jim Neal]

On 11/03/2022 at 07:51, Scully said:

This. I have quite a few farming friends, all of whom years ago dredged the dikes and gullies on their land to prevent them ‘silting up’ and flooding the land. Some of it still goes on, but far from prying eyes and on the quiet. 
If I recall correctly, during Storm Desmond a few local lads with 360’s helping out the locals in Glenridding, much to the annoyance of, and against EA policy. The fact it helped enormously was possibly why no action was taken against them. 
Edited to add: water doesn’t soak into tarmac or concrete, yet building houses on flood plains and marshy areas still seems to be common practise, at least around here. 🤷‍♂️

Some good family friends used to have the guest house called Mosscrag in Glenridding.  I'm not sure if this is its official title but the beck running alongside the road was called "Rattlebeck" because when it carried lots of flood water you could hear, and even feel through the ground, the rocks rattling along its bed!  We visited a fair few times and I've seen it in full flood.  I wouldn't want to fall over that wall into it.

I can understand why the EA would not be very happy with someone setting about it with diggers because surely that would have destroyed all the character of the beck?  I have memories of playing in there as a youngster, with a fishing net, jumping from rock to rock trying not to fall in.  I rarely came back with dry shoes 😅

I caught my first ever fish on the banks of Ullswater just along from the mouth of that beck - a brown trout just about legal size to take.  I have very fond memories of Glenridding

[Walker570]

I have done a fair amount of work on rivers and got an accolade for the work.  It is not that simple.  A great pity the farmer had not contacted the Wild Trout Trust first and they would have advised free of charge.  Turning rivers into canals only floods people further downstream. It is all about balance.   It is possible to move silt and open up spawning gravels without the use of 360 diggers or bulldozers, however I used 360s and backhoes but using common sense and our river amazingly continued to run, produce more wild trout and grayling which had been wiped out many years before by ignorance..  Unfortunately many young folk do not realise that flood meadows where there for a purpose and that was not to grow maize or build houses.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Walker570

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Some good family friends used to have the guest house called Mosscrag in Glenridding.  I'm not sure if this is its official title but the beck running alongside the road was called "Rattlebeck" because when it carried lots of flood water you could hear, and even feel through the ground, the rocks rattling along its bed!  We visited a fair few times and I've seen it in full flood.  I wouldn't want to fall over that wall into it.

I can understand why the EA would not be very happy with someone setting about it with diggers because surely that would have destroyed all the character of the beck?  I have memories of playing in there as a youngster, with a fishing net, jumping from rock to rock trying not to fall in.  I rarely came back with dry shoes 😅

I caught my first ever fish on the banks of Ullswater just along from the mouth of that beck - a brown trout just about legal size to take.  I have very fond memories of Glenridding

As do I. There was a fabulous shop in Glenridding which had a wall covered in sheath knives. It was paradise for a young lad. 
We would often visit Aira Force on the way there or back. 👍

[Jim Neal]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

As do I. There was a fabulous shop in Glenridding which had a wall covered in sheath knives. It was paradise for a young lad. 
We would often visit Aira Force on the way there or back. 👍

Possibly the same shop my Dad, after much badgering, bought my fishing "starter kit" consisting of crappy little fibreglass rod and cheapo reel!  I think he got me half a pint of maggots and we used a scavenged ring pull off a drinks can as a bite indicator!

I vaguely remember Aira Force, it made a mist that got you wet even standing some distance away.

[Dougy]

Even from my very young years when we did environmental studies st high school we looked into flood banks and there uses. Decades later I can't understand the reason, apart from that is, the planning  authorities are seen to be doing something to cover the ridiculous planning consents to keep building on flood plains. 

[Scully]

On 12/03/2022 at 23:01, Jim Neal said:

 

I vaguely remember Aira Force, it made a mist that got you wet even standing some distance away.

Still does! 😀👍

[Stonepark]

Another Farmer now found guilty

 

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/crime/damage-to-water-vole-habitat-costs-farmer-over-450000

Edited April 29, 2022 by Stonepark

[JohnfromUK]

After another long break, the farmer has been jailed and will have to pay £600K

https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/23469306.john-price-jailed-bulldozing-lugg-riverbank/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-65339969

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good grief!    

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good grief!    

You get less for mugging an old granny.

[discobob]

On 08/12/2020 at 00:59, manthing said:

It was planed and authorised work.

https://kingsland-pc.gov.uk/statement-on-the-recent-work-at-the-lugg/?fbclid=IwAR0oiDUCbQIuW0KbHqf8WCi93uiQzjNiKNXr2HdqWHj1aTMRQxhAtGvfLNE

https://yourherefordshire.co.uk/all/news/news-reports-that-farmer-bulldozed-land-next-to-river-lugg-to-protect-homes-from-flooding/?fbclid=IwAR0NIsfShBrciFcGpdyODktGoWU1njib-G-nhI94JBMveTwLF7DF78-plCE

But yet he has been done for it!!!!

[morgan]

The unnecessary destruction of British biodiversity is an unpatriotic act.

The trees aren’t going to grow back because he has ripped all the stumps out, if it was coppiced and then left pollards in between it might be a different matter. That is a lot of habitat unnecessarily destroyed. Doesn’t look like there will be much duck shooting happening there for a few decades. He could have just thinned and coppiced it. Whatever he did must be bad, because to be honest you can get away with blue murder environmentally in this country and walk away scot free.
His crimes were bad for the waterfowl and birds, bad for the small mammals and amphibians, bad for the fish stocks, bad for the insects, bad for the trees and riparian habitat, bad for flood mitigation……why do it, it’s totally unnecessary. In my mind that is just a serious a crime as theft or vandalism.He will be receiving subsidies from the tax payer, especially for a triple SSSI- he has responsibilities. 

65% of Britains biodiversity has disappeared in last 50 years.
If it was ignorance on his behalf they should have just fined him properly, but to be honest he had plenty of chances.  I cannot see any benefit in sending him to jail, but he brought it on himself by ignoring the reasonable demands of the law. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by morgan

[Dekers]

deleted post error!!!!

Edited April 21, 2023 by Dekers

[scolopax]

I said custodial sentence at the very start and that’s what he got. He was warned but carried on, it was obvious they were going to make an example of him.

 

[Rewulf]

14 hours ago, scolopax said:

I said custodial sentence at the very start and that’s what he got. He was warned but carried on, it was obvious they were going to make an example of him.

 

Laughable comment really 'Make an example of him' ?
If the courts made an example of some of the more serious criminals in todays society, we wouldnt be in the mess we are .

Yet this farmer , for no personal gain for himself , and at his own expense , tries to help his community, gets vilified , makes national press, jailed and heavily fined, is that what you would call a good days work for the judiciary ?

One resident whose home was flooded last year told the publication that Mr Price took on the work because the EA refused to listen to their appeals.       

She said: 'John has acted in the best interests of the local community.' 

[wymberley]

Anyone live close by that could photograph it now?

One for Charlie boy I fancy.

[Jaymo]

20 hours ago, wymberley said:

Anyone live close by that could photograph it now?

One for Charlie boy I fancy.

Exactly.

Along that stretch around Leominster, there are sections that border fields which aren’t populated with trees or other planting. 
Im always amazed by natures ability to regenerate and I’m sure that the site today, looks a lot more established and acceptable had the agency only just got involved. 
Look at any building project during construction and it’s an eyesore, but given a few months and things all start blending in. 
 

Personally, I do not feel that his sentence is justified. 

[Scully]

Something similar happened in Glenridding following storm Desmond, I think it was, when the locals were telling EA that the flooding wouldn’t stop unless they did something with the beck, but EA reckoned they knew best and wouldn’t do it. 
A local took it upon himself to do the work and it was a success. I don’t think EA were too chuffed but the result couldn’t be denied. 

[discobob]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

Something similar happened in Glenridding following storm Desmond, I think it was, when the locals were telling EA that the flooding wouldn’t stop unless they did something with the beck, but EA reckoned they knew best and wouldn’t do it. 
A local took it upon himself to do the work and it was a success. I don’t think EA were too chuffed but the result couldn’t be denied. 

This is endemic in all public departments nowadays from central government down to councils etc.. They think they are the God Given (or whatever religion they practice) and we the people 'don't know anything' - we are plebs

It is a total disconnect between these agencies and the people that they are supposed to actually work for

[derbyduck]

21 hours ago, wymberley said:

Anyone live close by that could photograph it now?

One for Charlie boy I fancy.

Just zoomed in on Google Earth ,it seems to be getting back to shape (less the trees),  but looking further down stream there are parts of the river that are as straight as a canal , so the clearing of the 3rd arch of the bridge and the removal of the spoil seems to pale in comparison to the previous works carried out ! 

its a case of do as I say not as I do ! 

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, derbyduck said:

Just zoomed in on Google Earth ,it seems to be getting back to shape (less the trees),  but looking further down stream there are parts of the river that are as straight as a canal , so the clearing of the 3rd arch of the bridge and the removal of the spoil seems to pale in comparison to the previous works carried out ! 

its a case of do as I say not as I do ! 

I saw a picture on FB last week, it looks fine, the big issue is has it flooded since?

EA and others will have pushed for the farmer to be punished,  shame they don't put the same enthusiasm into their work.

[Stonepark]

And just where are all these  Judges, prosecutors and environmentalists when it comes to the CR4P released on a daily basis into the waterways killing everything in the river for large stretches from water & sewage companies?

 

[old'un]

the villagers and Kingsland council were happy with what he did, my cousin lives a couple of miles up the road and said it does not look that bad and desperately needed clearing.

Next time I am down there I will take a couple of pictures.

The farm is Day House Farm….https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Day+House+Farm/@52.2530759,-2.817429,2933m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x48703f2ff7edaf65:0x9747ccc4b3fb55ef!8m2!3d52.2543891!4d-2.815306!16s%2Fg%2F11hcfmz74b

[400_racer]

Courtesy of someone the farming forum, taken a week or so ago.  600k in repair costs to be paid too!  Crazy.  It does sound like he had a fair bit of ‘previous’ over the years with ignoring rules/orders regarding his land, but it’s clear it needed doing, the EA wouldn’t do it and everyone in the area support him and are pleased with the work.  The EA are probably just annoyed that he’s showing them how to do their jobs 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by 400_racer

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, 400_racer said:

Courtesy of someone the farming forum, taken a week or so ago.  600k in repair costs to be paid too!  Crazy.  It does sound like he had a fair bit of ‘previous’ over the years with ignoring rules/orders regarding his land, but it’s clear it needed doing, the EA wouldn’t do it and everyone in the area support him and are pleased with the work.  The EA are probably just annoyed that he’s showing them how to do their jobs 

 

This is the impression I get too; can’t have the plebs knowing best!