MWildfowler Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Hi guys, How do I find out if a clay ground has a section 11 6? I have spoken to a few about bringing a non sgc holder with myself and they said it is fine as long a I supervise him the whole time he is there. Does this mean they have one? I would have thought he would have had to sign some paperwork? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 My only guess would be to ask the ground you wish to shoot on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MWildfowler Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 I assume it’s okay considering I’ve asked them if were allowed to bring someone and they’ve said yes as long as we supervise! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MWildfowler said: Hi guys, How do I find out if a clay ground has a section 11 6? I have spoken to a few about bringing a non sgc holder with myself and they said it is fine as long a I supervise him the whole time he is there. Does this mean they have one? I would have thought he would have had to sign some paperwork? And you will be responsible for your guest! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MWildfowler Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 Yes I’m fine taking responsibility. I will only ever consider taking someone out after I’ve gone through hun safety and am happy they know how to conduct themselves. I just wanted to make sure it’s okay for me to do this @TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robden Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 A friend of mine often brings his son (non-holder) but has to carry his gun as well.......ground rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnphilip Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 10 hours ago, MWildfowler said: Yes I’m fine taking responsibility. I will only ever consider taking someone out after I’ve gone through hun safety and am happy they know how to conduct themselves. I just wanted to make sure it’s okay for me to do this @TIGHTCHOKE If you put your location up some members maybe able to help more with local ground knowledge . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen-H Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Last few grounds i have taken people to have been fine with it only ground i found that had a problem was north wales shooting school the guest has to pay & do a 45 minute safety briefing is what we were told when we arrived & asked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wylye Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 I hate to harp on about the CPSA but if you take him to a CPSA Registered/Affiliated ground then they will have an 11.6 Exemption Certificate. Plus a safety officer - oh and insurance. Depends how far you want to go with this really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MWildfowler Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 Thanks for the info guys. I spoke to the ground (dartford shooting ground) today and they do have a section 11 6 in place As far as it can 😂. I’m new to the sport so trying to learn as much as I can’ @Wylye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie to this Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 If you had said it was Dartford... It's my local club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HDAV Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Most clay grounds have an 11/6 but many insist none SGC holders have a “lesson” so you have to ask at any ground oddly I don’t think I have ever been to a ground that has asked to see my SGC 🤔 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
webber Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) If you wish to take a none SGC holder shooting at a clay pigeon shoot, you really do need to ask the ground if they hold a section 11/6 exemption certificate. You should also ask about any insurance restrictions. The certificate is issued by the Chief Constable and allows the ground to put none prohibited person, in possession of a Section 2 Firearm - Shotgun for the purpose of undertaking instruction. Most grounds are OK with unqualified instructors supervising a friend; however, at R&ASC we have an insurance restriction in place preventing anyone who has held an SGC for less than 2 years from performing instruction. The reasoning should be obvious. As a BASC Shotgun Coach, and ground operator, I have on a few occasions had to step in, and stop proceedings when its been obvious that the partially sighted were attempting to lead the blind; on one occasion, I had a loaded gun pointed directly at me at 6 foot distance. Whilst I handled the situation, the end result was that the man in the stand discharged both barrels into the ground, meanwhile my client completely went to pieces. Its understandable that some grounds require a short lesson conducted by a qualified coach for beginners prior to embarking on a shooting experience with their mate. In the vent that something went wrong, and it was discovered that the ground did not hold an 11/6, both you, and the ground operator would be in the smelly stuff well past your lug holes. webber Edited January 19 by webber Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Westley Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I always insisted that the newcomer signed a 'statement' to the effect that they were NOT a prohibited person. If they had never shot before, we insisted that they had at least 1 lesson (including safety). If the person bringing the newcomer was known to us, then we let them do the instruction, but most preferred for us to do that initial lesson anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WalkedUp Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Westley said: I always insisted that the newcomer signed a 'statement' to the effect that they were NOT a prohibited person. If they had never shot before, we insisted that they had at least 1 lesson (including safety). If the person bringing the newcomer was known to us, then we let them do the instruction, but most preferred for us to do that initial lesson anyway. Sounds like a very sensible system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scully Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I’ve been reading this thread with interest, as I can’t think of a single time I’ve been asked in a clubhouse or caravan if I’ve brought anyone with me or/and if they have a SGC. Come to think of it, the only time I’ve even been asked for MY ticket at a clay ground was on one occasion when I bought cartridges at Westlands. I haven’t taken many non SGC holders shooting with me, but have to say I haven’t given any of the requirements a thought, nor was even aware of them to be honest; I’ve just turned up with whomever, either paid or got my card, and gone shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
webber Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Scully said: I’ve been reading this thread with interest, as I can’t think of a single time I’ve been asked in a clubhouse or caravan if I’ve brought anyone with me or/and if they have a SGC. Come to think of it, the only time I’ve even been asked for MY ticket at a clay ground was on one occasion when I bought cartridges at Westlands. I haven’t taken many non SGC holders shooting with me, but have to say I haven’t given any of the requirements a thought, nor was even aware of them to be honest; I’ve just turned up with whomever, either paid or got my card, and gone shooting. R&ASC operates within the Greater Manchester area. We have a letter on display from GMP reminding us that we are required to check original SGC at each shoot. Every person shooting is required to sign a declaration at time of booking on with the clerk. It takes only seconds. My clerk is a retired Police Officer and Magistrate. I can be confident that the checks are conducted diligently. I can think of a number of grounds that I've shot at in the past who have required no checks of any kind, but that dosn't make them right. webber Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scully Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just now, webber said: R&ASC operates within the Greater Manchester area. We have a letter on display from GMP reminding us that we are required to check original SGC at each shoot. Every person shooting is required to sign a declaration at time of booking on with the clerk. It takes only seconds. My clerk is a retired Police Officer and Magistrate. I can be confident that the checks are conducted diligently. I can think of a number of grounds that I've shot at in the past who have required no checks of any kind, but that dosn't make them right. webber I’m not disputing the fact it should be done, only that it’s never been something I’ve been asked. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Westley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 At the grounds that I visit on a regular basis, I am well known to the ground owners (you don't swing a closed gun around without someone noticing ! ) However, if I am visiting a ground for the first time I always produce my certificate to the 'desk' when signing on. Some grounds hold the certificate until you return the card/box/whatever, others just hand it back. IF I am taking a newcomer to whom I am about to give their first lesson to, I always clear it with the owners prior to visiting. Just common courtesy really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LeedsZeppelin Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 20/01/2021 at 19:03, Westley said: Some grounds hold the certificate until you return the card/box/whatever, others just hand it back. That doesn't seem right to me. I wouldn't be letting them keep hold of my ticket and they have no right to ask to do so. In fact, it could be argued that it would put you in breach of Section 48 of the Firearms Act 1968. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon R Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Quote In fact, it could be argued that it would put you in breach of Section 48 of the Firearms Act 1968. They would also be contravening the Data Protection Act. Once they have established that you are a licence holder, they have no legal right to copy it or retain it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pangolin Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) Just call the ground, never had any trouble. Same as Scully, I've not been to a clay ground where they even ask. Grounds that insist on a lesson are off putting, you dont even have to have experience to have a SGC in the first place so you could go to a clay ground with no shooting experience whatsoever but as you have a SGC they ask no questions. Some of the replies you tend to see on here show that people really overthink the simplest of things. Edited January 25 by Pangolin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon R Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Webber runs his ground to the book and within the rules set out by GMP. Grounds step outside those at their peril. When I finally get down to see John again, I will take my licence. That said, like Scully, I have never been asked for my licence in over 40 years clay shooting, in more counties than you can point a stick at. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Westley Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 hours ago, Gordon R said: They would also be contravening the Data Protection Act. Once they have established that you are a licence holder, they have no legal right to copy it or retain it. I am not going to name them , but, I know of 2 grounds that are reasonably local that retain your certificate until you return their clay counter. Either that or you do not shoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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