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Police charge 32 men with almost 200 sex offences against eight girls


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Just now, oowee said:

Foreigners committed the crimes' were they born in the UK? 

'Refuse to live in the manor that we do'. Who is we? 

No one is defending the perps. 

People of foreign decent then, following a different culture. 

We all know this, yes the odd white bloke gets done, probably more than we realise but these grooming gangs come from the same areas, same groups and it certainly reads like they are being defended. 

There should be zero tolerance for anything like this no matter what race, creed or religion the people or persons committing the acts are.

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I think this thread highlights the issues with tackling this sort of crime. You have certain individuals who are so over sensitive, believing that racism lurked behind the majoritys curtains, coupled with a number of people who don't think before they speak due to the anger at the severity of the crime, which is stoked by the woke denying there's a problem and before you know it, your having a discussion about race, instead of the crime, the drivers of it and what can be done to eradicate it. Which ultimately led to the police and wider system burying their heads in the sand for fear of being labeled instatutionaly racist. If problems can't be discussed openly, anger will build, the extremists of society will always feed on that. 

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Just now, 12gauge82 said:

I think this thread highlights the issues with tackling this sort of crime. You have certain individuals who are so over sensitive, believing that racism lurked behind the majoritys curtains, coupled with a number of people who don't think before they speak due to the anger at the severity of the crime, which is stoked by the woke denying there's a problem and before you know it, your having a discussion about race, instead of the crime, the drivers of it and what can be done to eradicate it. Which ultimately led to the police and wider system burying their heads in the sand for fear of being labeled instatutionaly racist. If problems can't be discussed openly, anger will build, the extremists of society will always feed on that. 

Well said.

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2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think this thread highlights the issues with tackling this sort of crime. You have certain individuals who are so over sensitive, believing that racism lurked behind the majoritys curtains, coupled with a number of people who don't think before they speak due to the anger at the severity of the crime, which is stoked by the woke denying there's a problem and before you know it, your having a discussion about race, instead of the crime, the drivers of it and what can be done to eradicate it. Which ultimately led to the police and wider system burying their heads in the sand for fear of being labeled instatutionaly racist. If problems can't be discussed openly, anger will build, the extremists of society will always feed on that. 

Agreed

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2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

There was a lot of delaying and back peddling in the Rotherham case because police and social workers, who knew exactly what was going on, considered it too risky for their own careers.

That is a fact, and it speaks volumes

the same crowd who gave us the lessons will be learned rubbish last time now need to be fired 

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I find it disturbing that anybody would scrutinise reports on sex offenders to argue that the numerous cases of large-scale Asian-led sex offenders are not cause for concern. 

The facts are simply that several large groups of Muslim males across a considerable number of UK cities independently targeted vulnerable, white female children.  The children were taken from care homes, given drugs so they became addicted and traded like chattels for sex.

That members of this forum wish to engage in whataboutery for no obvious reason is despicable. 
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Flashman said:

I find it disturbing that anybody would scrutinise reports on sex offenders to argue that the numerous cases of large-scale Asian-led sex offenders are not cause for concern. 

The facts are simply that several large groups of Muslim males across a considerable number of UK cities independently targeted vulnerable, white female children.  The children were taken from care homes, given drugs so they became addicted and traded like chattels for sex.

That members of this forum wish to engage in whataboutery for no obvious reason is despicable. 
 

 

I guess that's the concern. 

Had you written 

I find it disturbing that anybody would argue that sex offenders are not cause for concern. 

The facts are simply that several large groups of males across a considerable number of UK cities independently targeted vulnerable, children.  The children were taken from care homes, given drugs so they became addicted and traded like chattels for sex.

Then we would all be in agreement. In this case the perps happen (apparently) to be from a certain ethnic group. To then interpolate that to be cause and effect and to suggest that 'outsiders' and 'foreigners' (even if only by descent) are, because of their heritage to be some how blamed and pigeon holed as a result is where the conversation becomes racist.

In this case it seems to be a particular group who are the perps. In other cases its other groups. It's the perps that are the concern not the groups that they may come from. There are perps doing this are from all groups and all sectors of society. 

It's right that we should look at underlying causes, and we should question and scrutinise the crimes and the perps to look at the best ways to identify the crime before its committed and take action to deal with the issues before they arise. To not do so is to perpetrate the crime going forward. 

It's for exactly this reason that we should as a society seek to protect the most vulnerable and dedicate resources for minimising the disenfranchised in society. Not to do so is to perpetuate and enable these dreadful crimes to take place. 

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14 minutes ago, oowee said:

I guess that's the concern. 

Had you written 

I find it disturbing that anybody would argue that sex offenders are not cause for concern. 

The facts are simply that several large groups of males across a considerable number of UK cities independently targeted vulnerable, children.  The children were taken from care homes, given drugs so they became addicted and traded like chattels for sex.

Then we would all be in agreement. In this case the perps happen (apparently) to be from a certain ethnic group. To then interpolate that to be cause and effect and to suggest that 'outsiders' and 'foreigners' (even if only by descent) are, because of their heritage to be some how blamed and pigeon holed as a result is where the conversation becomes racist.

In this case it seems to be a particular group who are the perps. In other cases its other groups. It's the perps that are the concern not the groups that they may come from. There are perps doing this are from all groups and all sectors of society. 

It's right that we should look at underlying causes, and we should question and scrutinise the crimes and the perps to look at the best ways to identify the crime before its committed and take action to deal with the issues before they arise. To not do so is to perpetrate the crime going forward. 

It's for exactly this reason that we should as a society seek to protect the most vulnerable and dedicate resources for minimising the disenfranchised in society. Not to do so is to perpetuate and enable these dreadful crimes to take place. 

A lot of words to say that we should ignore that the people convicted of these crimes in earlier cases were Muslims of South Asian family origin. 
 

It is not racist to simply state facts as reported in the press. 
 

 

Edited by Flashman
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48 minutes ago, oowee said:

I guess that's the concern. 

Had you written 

I find it disturbing that anybody would argue that sex offenders are not cause for concern. 

The facts are simply that several large groups of males across a considerable number of UK cities independently targeted vulnerable, children.  The children were taken from care homes, given drugs so they became addicted and traded like chattels for sex.

Then we would all be in agreement. In this case the perps happen (apparently) to be from a certain ethnic group. To then interpolate that to be cause and effect and to suggest that 'outsiders' and 'foreigners' (even if only by descent) are, because of their heritage to be some how blamed and pigeon holed as a result is where the conversation becomes racist.

In this case it seems to be a particular group who are the perps. In other cases its other groups. It's the perps that are the concern not the groups that they may come from. There are perps doing this are from all groups and all sectors of society. 

It's right that we should look at underlying causes, and we should question and scrutinise the crimes and the perps to look at the best ways to identify the crime before its committed and take action to deal with the issues before they arise. To not do so is to perpetrate the crime going forward. 

It's for exactly this reason that we should as a society seek to protect the most vulnerable and dedicate resources for minimising the disenfranchised in society. Not to do so is to perpetuate and enable these dreadful crimes to take place. 

So the fact that the religious teachings of this culture if chosen to be interpreted in such a way allow mistreatment of “unbelievers” and consider that they have less worth than believers in their particular fairy story - with a “prophet” who had a liking for very young girls has nothing to do with why these crimes are committed more often from members of that “community”? 

Edited by oscarsdad
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1 hour ago, oowee said:

Its right that we should look at underlying causes, and we should question and scrutinise the crimes and the perps to look at the best ways to identify the crime before its committed and take action to deal with the issues before they arise. To not do so is to perpetrate the crime going forward

The government did spend time ,money and resources on trying to find out why.

Then , buried the findings.

Make of that what you will.

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So the fact that the religious teachings of this culture if chosen to be interpreted in such a way allow mistreatment of “unbelievers” and consider that they have less worth than believers in their particular fairy story - with a “prophet” who had a liking for very young girls has nothing to do with why these crimes are committed more often from members of that “community”? 

I can't argue with that and cannot comprehend why anyone would argue, but I am sure someone will.

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6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your getting confused between the specific crime, we're talking specifically grooming gangs of which approximately 84% are Muslim men of Pakistani origin. 

No, not at all.

Here are the figures; "Pretty much the only reliable source — a 2013 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection division of the National Crime Agency using data requested from police forces — indicated that Asian men had carried out 75 per cent of recorded “Type 1” group abuse, where victims were targeted because they’re vulnerable.

 

The same study found that 100 per cent of recorded “Type 2” group abusers — who abused children because of an overtly paedophilic interest — were white." From demonic earlier , yes it is wrong to deny that Asian men are the major of type 1 grooming abusers, just as much as white men are wholly responsible for type 2 group grooming abuse.

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2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I can't argue with that and cannot comprehend why anyone would argue, but I am sure someone will.

Why would someone argue with that statement?  Because it is racism dressed up in argument of sophistry, it is an argument that is a fallacy of equivocation.

Standard PW fare really.

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1 hour ago, henry d said:

No, not at all.

Here are the figures; "Pretty much the only reliable source — a 2013 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection division of the National Crime Agency using data requested from police forces — indicated that Asian men had carried out 75 per cent of recorded “Type 1” group abuse, where victims were targeted because they’re vulnerable.

 

The same study found that 100 per cent of recorded “Type 2” group abusers — who abused children because of an overtly paedophilic interest — were white." From demonic earlier , yes it is wrong to deny that Asian men are the major of type 1 grooming abusers, just as much as white men are wholly responsible for type 2 group grooming abuse.

I really don't see what colour has to do with any of this, the point of this thread is grooming gangs (you say 75% I say 84% are male, Muslims of Pakistani origin, the exact figure is almost irrelevant at that level, I'm sure we can both agree it's very high when they only represent about 2% of population). If you read back through this thread, you'll see I've said that white British are also massively over represented in some crimes so your just agreeing with me there, it really is irrelevant. I don't want to go over the whole problem again, but you still don't seem to grasp, or won't accept the issue in this case, which is:- What is it about the offending group that makes the offence of child grooming on an almost industrial scale acceptable?What can be done to stop it? How do we tackle it when the establishment is or was too afraid incase they were branded institutionaly racist? And how do we stop it from happening again, whilst also attempting to get some justice for the victims? None of that will be achieved if we continue to pretend there isn't a problem, along with the identified group and the establishment who allowed it to continue. 

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What is racism? putting six million people in a gas chamber is racism. Pointing out that a list of offenders share a characteristic is just identifying a trend. Which may be useful to prevent further offences.

Anybody who uses the racism in an argument generally cant think of anything better to put forward

Facts are not racist, facts are facts

Edited by Vince Green
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40 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

What is racism? putting six million people in a gas chamber is racism. Pointing out that a list of offenders share a characteristic is just identifying a trend. Which may be useful to prevent further offences.

Anybody who uses the racism in an argument generally cant think of anything better to put forward

Facts are not racist, facts are facts

And it is this fear or falsely being branded racist which stopped these sorts of crimes being investigated / charged in too many cases as social workers feared offending “the community” and left young girls to be knowingly abused. 

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17 hours ago, oscarsdad said:

So the fact that the religious teachings of this culture if chosen to be interpreted in such a way allow mistreatment of “unbelievers” and consider that they have less worth than believers in their particular fairy story - with a “prophet” who had a liking for very young girls has nothing to do with why these crimes are committed more often from members of that “community”? 

I cant see what religious beliefs (if they indeed have any skewed or otherwise) has to do with the crime they have committed.

You would not suggest, that a thief from a Christian background, stealing from a house was corrupted by his religion. Proverbs 23.5 Cast but a glance at riches and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle.

Any teaching religious or otherwise can be misinterpreted by the corrupt. Its the corruption that is the crime not the teaching. 

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

I cant see what religious beliefs (if they indeed have any skewed or otherwise) has to do with the crime they have committed.

You would not suggest, that a thief from a Christian background, stealing from a house was corrupted by his religion. Proverbs 23.5 Cast but a glance at riches and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle.

Any teaching religious or otherwise can be misinterpreted by the corrupt. Its the corruption that is the crime not the teaching. 

Broadly speaking the cultural differences are

1) women are inferior to men in their view of the world

2) crimes committed against people who don't share your faith either doesn't matter or matters less. And I would like to point out that 75 years ago our great trading partner in Europe was busily killing people in gas chambers because they were of a different faith

beyond that you will have to seek your own answers 

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15 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I really don't see what colour has to do with any of this, the point of this thread is grooming gangs (you say 75% I say 84% are male, Muslims of Pakistani origin,

Ok, the figures you quote are from the Quilliam report which has been quoted widely but is incorrect.

"The 2012 Office of the Childrens Commissioner’s call to evidence received information on 1514 offenders and from this, “individuals classified as`White’ form the largest group of perpetrators in both gangs and groups” — 545 were recorded as ‘White’, 415 were recorded as ‘Asian’, and 244 were recorded as ‘Black’ (with 21% ethnicity not provided). Asians are likely to make up a disproportionately low number of this 21% as the OCC concludes “it is evident that data are more proactively gathered on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin.”." Sourced here

It is rather long but an easy read and much of the grooming is to do with contact with the vulnerable.

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