Choke for 20 bore on woodcock

[enfieldspares]

On 27/12/2020 at 17:44, Lloyd90 said:

Hello gents. I have picked up a last minute chance to shoot a walk one shoot one driven woodcock shoot this coming Wednesday. 
 

I am thinking of either taking my 12 bore SxS choked skeet and 3/8 - using 28g 7’s, or my 20 bore SP. 

 

Unfortunately the only 20b carts I have in at the moment are either 21g 7’s (not enough shot I’d assume), 28g 5.5’s or 30g 5’s. 
 

If I use the 20 what would be the best choke combo for these small birds? I think there’s the odd chance for pigeon, snipe and the odd pheasant as well. 
 

 

Your 7's will be better than any of your 5 1/2 or 5 loads. The old truism....pattern fails before penetration...is the answer. I've shot and hit (then had them run) woodcock on a driven pheasant day using 30g English 6's. If it is woodcock you are ever getting a realistic chance of a shot on a day take your 7's.

Choke? If using your 7's I'd agree that your best combination CYL + 1/4. But I'd suggest if you've screw in chokes to set the gun up reverse choke. That is 1/4 in the FIRST to be fired barrel and CYL in the SECOND to be fired barrel. That'll take care of the driven part of the festivities. For woodcock and pheasant or partridge. Remember in driven your second shot if you need it will usually be closer.

Use the tighter choke 1/4 as a precision tool to take the bird early (or the rear bird of a pair if you're lucky) and the open choke CYL to take the bird nearer (if you missed first barrel) or the now nearer second bird if you hit the first of your pair.

Stick with it reverse choked for the walked up woodcock part too. You are "bumming" them so that extra small amount of choke will help with a denser pattern and longer shot string.

Don't worry that any second shot would be with the cylinder as with walked up woodcock if you don't hit it with the first barrel it is usually out of range for a second shot and if, as can happen, you flush a second bird of any species "on report" it'll usually be a closer shot that the one you took at that first bird.  Especially if it's a pigeon from that ivy covered tree fifteen yards away in the hedge line you are walking up. Plus as you gun will already be in the shoulder you'll have five yards advantage on that flushed second bird.

Leave the 7 1/2 at your mate's. That's too much shot with any choke if you hit and centre a bird at, as most driven game is, twenty or twenty-five yards.

Edited December 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[millrace]

 no 6 shot thru what ever gun you lift,,,its a woodcock  just shoot the thing,,,,i

Why all the fuss over choke/ shot/ /blah blah blah/.........

When every person on this forum started shooting you lifted a gun off you went enjoyed whatever results you had, when did it become so complicated,,,,,the birds haven't changed!!!!!!!

[wymberley]

19 minutes ago, millrace said:

 no 6 shot thru what ever gun you lift,,,its a woodcock  just shoot the thing,,,,i

Why all the fuss over choke/ shot/ /blah blah blah/.........

When every person on this forum started shooting you lifted a gun off you went enjoyed whatever results you had, when did it become so complicated,,,,,the birds haven't changed!!!!!!!

No, but if you've learned as you go along, your performance would have improved and your enjoyment along with it.

[islandgun]

11 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

That sounds an ideal trip out. The 20 bore McNabs are lovely guns to shoot. I enjoy using mine. Intrigued that yours is choked cyl-1/4 as they are normally 1/4-1/2. Mind you, cyl-1/4 probably puts more birds in the bag.

OB

Hi OB Just had a check with my ebay brass choke checking key ring.😉 and it says imp/half so perhaps someone opened it out, a great little walked up gun.. I saw 7 woodcock that day, 4 in the evening whilst waiting for ducks. [didnt see any ducks..😄] these are migrant birds and not that difficult in open country !

[figgy]

Islandgun, you can't use a brass choke guage unless your gun matches it's cylinder bore dimensions.

 

[Stonepark]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Your 7's will be better than any of your 5 1/2 or 5 loads.

1 hour ago, millrace said:

 no 6 shot thru what ever gun you lift,,,its a woodcock  just shoot the thing....

Leave the 7 1/2 at your mate's. That's too much shot with any choke if you hit and centre a bird at, as most driven game is, twenty or twenty-five yards.

 

At 40 yards the minimum optimum number of pellets in a 30 inch circle to kill a pheasant is 150, for woodcock it's 190 and whilst 32g no6 and skeet will satisfy the former, half choke is needed for the latter.

 

At 30 yards (most common woodcock range), 28g no 7 (or 7.5) will put 201 (237) pellets in 30 inch circle with Cyl choke.

With 1\4 choke just good to 40 yards with 184 (217).

 

Given the erratic nature of woodcock flight the 28g 7 or 7.5 with open chokes and larger patterns produces a greater chance of a clean kill.

At 20 yards (minimum distance) no6 and skeet no 6 32g has 279 pelkets I'm 30 circle with skeet, compared to no7 (or 7.5) with Cyl choke having 268 (or 316) pellets.

Having an extra hundred pellets in the 30 inch circle (i.e. 290 instead of 190) simply results in the bird being hit by on average 2 more pellets, that is not going to smash up woodcock, especially with small pellets like no 7 (or 7.5).

[Old Boggy]

11 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Something on it broke and he’s had a nightmare trying to get it fixed!! 

I`m surprised as the McNabs were made by B.Rizzini and ASI are the importers who I would think could have sorted any problems out.

OB

[wymberley]

"Count to 7 and then shoot 7s."

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, wymberley said:

"Count to 7 and then shoot 7s."

If you count to 7 the woodcock will be long gone!

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, figgy said:

Islandgun, you can't use a brass choke guage unless your gun matches it's cylinder bore dimensions.

 

Not sure what you mean mate !

[wymberley]

26 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

If you count to 7 the woodcock will be long gone!

Yep. If you have to use your fingers. Stonepark above gives the clue.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I believe the question in the thread was answered soon after it was posed!

[wymberley]

31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I believe the question in the thread was answered soon after it was posed!

It was indeed. But no matter what choke or shot size you still have to place the load in the right place and for that every little helps.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

13 minutes ago, wymberley said:

It was indeed. But no matter what choke or shot size you still have to place the load in the right place and for that every little helps.

But that is the same for any target shot at by any shotgun!

[figgy]

Islandgun, the choke is a constriction to the bore.  So if 15.6mm was the standard and that's what your choke guage is starting from you could have a overbored gun at 15.9 so your choke guage would never give the right choke measurements. It would be nearly a 1/4 choke out every measurement.  This could also be a gun with bores tighter than 15.6mm.  choke guage a are useless.

[Old farrier]

7 minutes ago, figgy said:

Islandgun, the choke is a constriction to the bore.  So if 15.6mm was the standard and that's what your choke guage is starting from you could have a overbored gun at 15.9 so your choke guage would never give the right choke measurements. It would be nearly a 1/4 choke out every measurement.  This could also be a gun with bores tighter than 15.6mm.  choke guage a are useless.

Not sure about useless if you can do the maths there a good guide not everyone has the luxury of a proper bore gauge or access to one 

If you take it to extreme you should factor in fibre or plastic wad 

One can only get a true picture from a pattern sheet 

[islandgun]

17 minutes ago, figgy said:

Islandgun, the choke is a constriction to the bore.  So if 15.6mm was the standard and that's what your choke guage is starting from you could have a overbored gun at 15.9 so your choke guage would never give the right choke measurements. It would be nearly a 1/4 choke out every measurement.  This could also be a gun with bores tighter than 15.6mm.  choke guage a are useless.

 

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Not sure about useless if you can do the maths there a good guide not everyone has the luxury of a proper bore gauge or access to one 

If you take it to extreme you should factor in fibre or plastic wad 

One can only get a true picture from a pattern sheet 

Right thanks.. Perhaps Old Boggy is right and it is bored 1/4 ad 1/2,  back to the plate then, for a better picture

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, figgy said:

Islandgun, the choke is a constriction to the bore....It would be nearly a 1/4 choke out every measurement...This could also be a gun with bores tighter than 15.6mm....Choke gauges are useless.

What he says +1. Choke is the difference between the diameter of the nearest parallel section of bore just before the "choke" compared to the diameter of the bore at the "choke" constriction. A gunsmith will measure BOTH dimemnsions and then subtract them to give the degree or points of choke.

The only thing that these brass gauges do on most guns is tell you if the muzzle of the gun will accept the gauge up to the step marked on the gauge. Some will have tight bores, say .719" or 13/1 others may have bores at the old 12/1 which is .740".

That's ten thousandths difference and as said by FIGGY the brass gauge usually marked as .729" will be "out" in both the .719" and .740" gun. If you know for certain your gun is .729" just ahead of the choke then your gauge will be true. If it isn't .729" (and of course the other barrel isn't necessarily also .729") the gauge is, as said, useless.

Edited December 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[holloway]

On 27/12/2020 at 17:44, Lloyd90 said:

Hello gents. I have picked up a last minute chance to shoot a walk one shoot one driven woodcock shoot this coming Wednesday. 
 

I am thinking of either taking my 12 bore SxS choked skeet and 3/8 - using 28g 7’s, or my 20 bore SP. 

 

Unfortunately the only 20b carts I have in at the moment are either 21g 7’s (not enough shot I’d assume), 28g 5.5’s or 30g 5’s. 
 

If I use the 20 what would be the best choke combo for these small birds? I think there’s the odd chance for pigeon, snipe and the odd pheasant as well. 
 

 

Let us know how the day went .

[Walker570]

18 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

That sounds an ideal trip out. The 20 bore McNabs are lovely guns to shoot. I enjoy using mine. Intrigued that yours is choked cyl-1/4 as they are normally 1/4-1/2. Mind you, cyl-1/4 probably puts more birds in the bag.

OB

Nah !   The nut behind the trigger does, the bird will not notice the difference.

[Lloyd90]

Not able to attend tomorrow now sadly, but I did manage to attend a shoot day today in Taunton. 
 

Mixed between working my dog and shooting, flushed some lovely birds for others which were picked by Ted and delivered to hand to me. 

I managed to shoot a cracking woodcock with my AYA 117 using 30g 6’s, and a cracking driven pheasant coming high over the top. 
 

Lovely day out. 
 

 

 

[mossy835]

where in taunton was it.

[Lloyd90]

12 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

where in taunton was it.

Place called Waterrow 👍🏻

[mossy835]

i know off the minehead road.

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, mossy835 said:

i know off the minehead road.

I just follow my sat nav to be honest mate 🙈 only second time been to that place. 
 

Beautiful part of the country, picturesque and some brilliant birds coming off the hill tops.