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2 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

The Dems are lining up impeachment again. That's got to be the most brainless and ill-thought through move they've thought of yet - and that's saying something.

I'm sure there is a big element of playing to the crowd, but perhaps hoping that they can get a result that would bar him from any further public office and thwart another campaign from him.  Perhaps many of the GOP members would support that too.

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15 hours ago, grrclark said:

I'm sure there is a big element of playing to the crowd, but perhaps hoping that they can get a result that would bar him from any further public office and thwart another campaign from him.  Perhaps many of the GOP members would support that too.

Seems a bit like using the process to subvert democracy. If he got trounced in the election fair and square then why do they have to be worried about any future campaigns...

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5 hours ago, treetree said:

Seems a bit like using the process to subvert democracy. If he got trounced in the election fair and square then why do they have to be worried about any future campaigns...

To remove/subdue the hugely divisive rhetoric and the inevitable disruption it would bring?

For what it is worth my opinion on this is if there is sufficient evidence that he could be prosecuted for incitement to insurrection then prosecute him and allow the courts to rule.  Much like Trump's claims of election fraud, put what you have in front of the court, if it is baseless like his claims it gets thrown out, if not then we see a trial.  Trust in the justice system.

While I can understand the likes of Twitter removing him from the platform, i don't actually agree with it.  

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1 minute ago, treetree said:

Was this condemnation of violence and unrest so forthcoming by high profile Democrats when Antifa were on the rampage?

Not in anyway condoning what happened  but the rank hypocrisy of some Democrats is startling.

It's stretching it a bit, but I guess they might say the fact that the Capitol was targeted is more of an attack against the nation, not just random acts of violence. It was targeted attempt at destabilising the government, not just in rhetoric, but in action too. It's not enough and the Dems have severely weakened their credibility with their double standards. It's also going to make the job of healing wounds in the first 100 days that much harder, as will any attempt to impeach Trump. It looks like petulant, hot-blooded revenge - something we're constantly told Trump himself acts on.

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2 minutes ago, Nuke said:

I wonder if the republican party may split into 2 and give the democrates the upper hand for the next 20 years?

/Markus 

Too many in the upper echelons of the GOP with brains to let that happen. Whilst there's all this talk about Trump 'growing the party' and getting more votes than any other sitting president, he did get thoroughly (yes, and fairly) battered in this election. He the lost the electoral college in a landslide and the popular vote by over 7 million. 

Having said that, they will be nervous of a primary challenge from Trump. He might not have a majority in the country, but he might well have a majority within the party and that sets up a dangerous position for the GOP in the primaries for 2024. 

They'd be looking at a hugely popular primary candidate who's unelectable come the general. I bet a fair few are hoping natural causes or jail step in first...

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19 hours ago, grrclark said:

Trust in the justice system.

Really ?

Is this the same justice system that lets cops who shoot people without just cause off ?

The justice system that is open to corruption and political coercion ?

You can tin foil hat me, but the liberals have been moaning about how bad the justice system is for years , now theyre about to elect a VP , and soon to be POTUS who was a considerable part of it, into power.
Whatever Trump is , he hasnt , and wont  get , as the Yanks call it , 'A fair trial'

Lets hope hes saved some tactical dirt for emergencies.

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7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Really ?

Is this the same justice system that lets cops who shoot people without just cause off ?

The justice system that is open to corruption and political coercion ?

You can tin foil hat me, but the liberals have been moaning about how bad the justice system is for years , now theyre about to elect a VP , and soon to be POTUS who was a considerable part of it, into power.
Whatever Trump is , he hasnt , and wont  get , as the Yanks call it , 'A fair trial'

Lets hope hes saved some tactical dirt for emergencies.

My point was the Democrat party should trust the justice system.  If they are content to stand behind it for other reasons then they should on this issue too.

Trump will also reap what he has sowed, after 4 years in executive office he could have done something about the justice system if it was so bad.  He could have taken a stand on any of the numerous issues where the police literaly got away with murder, but he didn't, he actively chose not to as it suited his narrative.

Personally I think both the police and judicial system in the US is hugely lacking, there is monstrous abuse of power from bottom to top and it is massively motivated by money, it is an industry in it's own right.

Despite what he might claim to the contrary Trump has played in that same muddy swamp and taken advantage, as has Biden and all the other political class.

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11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Is this the same justice system that lets cops who shoot people without just cause off ?

Probably not, no.

The US has 50 different criminal justice systems, as well as the Federal level.

So, it would help if you were clearer in the example you cite.

The mechanism for impeaching the president is a mixture of the legislative and the judicial branches of government removing the executive.

 

Just now, grrclark said:

He could have taken a stand on any of the numerous issues where the police literaly got away with murder, but he didn't, he actively chose not to as it suited his narrative.

And done....what?  Criminal Justice at the state level is not within the remit of the president, indeed his intervention would likely have been castigated by all and sundry as politicising.

If by 'taken a stand', you mean delivered an Obama-esque speech with stirring rhetoric and very little action (as he is not empowered to do much about it), it's a hard pass from me.  8 years of that and worsening race relations led us to the situation Trump inherited.

To me Trump and Obama are 2 different sides of the same coin, at least when it comes to rhetoric.  On the one hand, you have someone who could deliver a good speech, and in the eyes the European press, could do no wrong.

On the other hand, you had a garrulous clown, whose rhetoric would embarrass a sulky teenager, but even when he said or did something sensible, it was completely ignored or vilified by a totally myopic press, because 'Trump'.

Can't help but notice which one started fewer wars/killed people.

 

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27 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Trump will also reap what he has sowed, after 4 years in executive office he could have done something about the justice system if it was so bad. 

The judiciary is a completely separate entity, inhabited by GOP and Dem alike, with a policy of cronyism unlike anything we experience in this country.
So yes its bad, but could he have changed anything ?
He made inroads from the supreme court down , but was too slow before he was out.

 

30 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Probably not, no.

The US has 50 different criminal justice systems, as well as the Federal level.

So, it would help if you were clearer in the example you cite.

Exactly, but the as stated above, its more about 'trusting' the 'system' or not as it were.

Trump tried to change things , the system, the establishment, he believed it was a straight forward exercise once he was POTUS, he was wrong, and not being a part of it to start with, I just dont think he realised what he was dealing with.

Hence the knives were out from the start, from all sides.

35 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And done....what?  Criminal Justice at the state level is not within the remit of the president, indeed his intervention would likely have been castigated by all and sundry as politicising.

Beat me to it.

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14 hours ago, KB1 said:

Interesting……….

Indeed , cant usually stand the egotistical.....But in this case hes spot on.
But, its nothing that most people dont already know, and accept.

The jockeying of position, using all methods available, including outright lies, slander, and a subtle form of coercion, using 'unbiased :lol:' media, so called fact checkers, and television dramas/films, seek to influence which of the 2 parties you cast your coin at.
Creating the illusion that your vote actually matters.

From the outside looking in at the American system, it all seems so obvious, whilst ours in the UK is not much better.

When how much money you throw at an election influences the outcome, running into tens of billions in the US , it isnt beyond the realms of fantasy to expect that these 'donors' are going to want a return.
In the case of the Biden/Kamala government, my bet is on that return being war.

Trump for all his faults, rattled the sabre a few times, but stopped short, and actually made bridges.
He was no good for business , he spent far too much time and effort on domestic matters, not enough time on returning the investments made by military, tech  and pharma big corps.
Much like JFK in the 60s refused to expand the Vietnam war, he was unceremoniously removed, and LBJ was barely sworn in before he started mobilising and ordering war materiel .

We shall have to see where it goes , but if I lived in Iran right now, I would be digging a bunker.

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18 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

Maybe it is time for the USA to abolish the Presidency as an office and instead rule by a consenting majority from the Senate. Just a thought as they get far too much attention for the good they seem to have done since WW2.

I have ordered my foil hat off Amazon but they are sold out.

Don't hold your breath!

Tin foil is available from other outlets!

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7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Don't hold your breath!

Exactly , every democracy needs a dictator frontman :rolleyes:

 

8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Tin foil is available from other outlets!

Ive found the poundshop stuff works just as well as other more expensive brands.:lol:

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52 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

Discuss.

Maybe it is time for the USA to abolish the Presidency as an office and instead rule by a consenting majority from the Senate. Just a thought as they get far too much attention for the good they seem to have done since WW2.

I have ordered my foil hat off Amazon but they are sold out.

Actually I could easily agree with that. The way they deify the office of president is a bit unhealthy

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