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The Financial Impact The Virus Has Caused On Shooting This Last Season ?


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18 hours ago, Tadorna said:

What are you smoking? Pigeon shooting is pest control, not sport.

😃Yeah, ' course it is! 

Don't shoot pheasants etc, only wildfowl. Full time beat keeper on large estate with mix of let and family days. Turkey voting for Christmas for the industry. Industry being the operative word. Big day for us is about 200

Very courteous and gracious of you to consider a figure for the rest of us which suits YOUR needs. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. I'm assuming you can justify your work and that your wild fowling consists of just 'one for the pot'. 😉However,given your employment and the fact you shoot wildfowl, I'm not sure you're in any position to dictate what numbers anyone else should be shooting.  

 

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17 hours ago, clangerman said:

farmers don’t give permission to have fun your there to keep the birds down if you don’t do so he will get someone who will your primary objective is to do a job for the farmer enjoyable yes but the choice to shoot pigeons is not yours it’s the farmers 

Hilarious! I'm not really sure where to start with this one! 

None of it adds up even from the point of view of a shooter let alone an anti! 

You say the choice isn't yours ( put aside the fact you appear to have a lack of freewill ) but if it's not your land then you do have a choice.

Why are you killing pigeons if the land isn't yours? Could it be because if you don't go then the land owner will just get someone else, as you suggest, and you don't want that to happen because then you couldn't shooting pigeons for 'enjoyment'? You've admitted you enjoy shooting pigeons, so at long last we're getting somewhere. 

When it comes down to it, all you're doing is shooting birds for your own enjoyment, just like everyone else who shoots driven game, or corvids ( or indeed wildfowl ) but you don't have the guts to admit it so you try to justify your shooting enjoyment by calling it pest control.

I do the same! I absolutely love pigeon shooting, and given the choice would rather have a day in the hide than a driven day.....as long as the pigeons were there. No point going if there's nothing to shoot. Unlike you, I don't criticise the shooting choice of others, so why do you? 

What on earth gives you the right to criticise others for doing the same? Do you know what a hypocrite is? 

 

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57 minutes ago, Scully said:

Hilarious! I'm not really sure where to start with this one! 

None of it adds up even from the point of view of a shooter let alone an anti! 

You say the choice isn't yours ( put aside the fact you appear to have a lack of freewill ) but if it's not your land then you do have a choice.

Why are you killing pigeons if the land isn't yours? Could it be because if you don't go then the land owner will just get someone else, as you suggest, and you don't want that to happen because then you couldn't shooting pigeons for 'enjoyment'? You've admitted you enjoy shooting pigeons, so at long last we're getting somewhere. 

When it comes down to it, all you're doing is shooting birds for your own enjoyment, just like everyone else who shoots driven game, or corvids ( or indeed wildfowl ) but you don't have the guts to admit it so you try to justify your shooting enjoyment by calling it pest control.

I do the same! I absolutely love pigeon shooting, and given the choice would rather have a day in the hide than a driven day.....as long as the pigeons were there. No point going if there's nothing to shoot. Unlike you, I don't criticise the shooting choice of others, so why do you? 

What on earth gives you the right to criticise others for doing the same? Do you know what a hypocrite is? 

 

Agree 100 percent if I didn’t Enjoy shooting winged game from wildfowl to crows I’d give up the sport 👍👍

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On 09/01/2021 at 16:37, Tadorna said:

That is being disingenuous. He obviously was not referring to your size shoot. I agree and hope the day of big bags [200 up] are numbered. Fire away anyone who disagrees. 

You ought to give the reasons behind your statement about limiting bag numbers or some might consider it to be deliberately provocative. You don't want to be accused of being the reincarnation of Balotelli do you?

Personally I shoot pigeons for sport. 

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

Do you know what a hypocrite is? 

 

yes someone who claims to have a love of the countryside and game shooting while at the same time he allows a lad to fire at live birds all day when it’s clear he can’t hit a barn or those who stand by and allow a woman to fire eighty shots from one peg who can’t shoot and fail to stop her doing the same at the next peg exactly the sort of behaviour that will see EVERYBODYS sport banned 

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I know the bulk of this thread refers to the shooting of live game but for us,Wife and myself we shoot clays only and i keep a track of all costs involved, in 2020 we spent £14000 less than 2019. This covers all travel/hotel/entries/shells sarnies etc. Thats just for 2 of us and we never shoot 2 shoots in a day.

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5 minutes ago, clangerman said:

yes someone who claims to have a love of the countryside and game shooting while at the same time he allows a lad to fire at live birds all day when it’s clear he can’t hit a barn or those who stand by and allow a woman to fire eighty shots from one peg who can’t shoot and fail to stop her doing the same at the next peg exactly the sort of behaviour that will see EVERYBODYS sport banned 

I thought not; I knew I'd have to spell it out. 

A hypocrite, as far as this thread is concerned, is someone who does something but criticises others for doing the same. In other words, YOU are the hypocrite in this case, because you shoot birds for your own enjoyment but criticise others for doing the same. 

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2 minutes ago, Scully said:

I thought not; I knew I'd have to spell it out. 

A hypocrite, as far as this thread is concerned, is someone who does something but criticises others for doing the same. In other words, YOU are the hypocrite in this case, because you shoot birds for your own enjoyment but criticise others for doing the same. 

let’s examine both then in game shooting you pay for the day show up take your peg and shoot decoying find the birds knock the perm reccy for at least a day lug all the kit out put it up pattern out shoot the pigeons IF your lucky as for the claim shooting birds is the main enjoyment mine is making them land many are allowed to fly on unshot once i have enough so my sport could not be farther from game shooting only thing we have in common is using the same tool 

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On 08/01/2021 at 22:26, Scully said:

Our syndicates biggest bag is about 48, what figure do you suggest we reduce it to? 

I can see no reason why any one neds to shoot 500 plus birds in a day, may as well just shoot clays. The big commercial shoots need bringing into some sort of order or I fear we will be regulated to the determent of everyone.

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2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

let’s examine both then in game shooting you pay for the day show up take your peg and shoot decoying find the birds knock the perm reccy for at least a day lug all the kit out put it up pattern out shoot the pigeons IF your lucky as for the claim shooting birds is the main enjoyment mine is making them land many are allowed to fly on unshot once i have enough so my sport could not be farther from game shooting only thing we have in common is using the same tool 

Eh? 😂 You really ought to think through your posts before replying. 

Why are you ' knocking at your perm'... I thought the landowner contacted you? Remember? You said it's not your choice, but that of the landowner! 

So once you 'have enough', you allow the pigeons to fly on unshot! I thought you were there for pest control; best not let your landowner know eh? He may find someone else to do the job properly! 

As you've suggested; let's examine both, but from the perspective of an anti, because after all, it's the future of our 'sport' you claim you want to preserve and that us game shooters are putting in jeopardy. 

We turn up, kill birds for enjoyment/entertainment/sport whatever, then go home. More in common than you thought eh! 

If you're brutally honest, the only difference between the game shooter and you, is the amount of money they have, but we all spend our hard earned in the pursuit of our 'sport' though, don't we? Some pay to travel thousands of miles away to shoot all manner of wildlife, including doves in Argentina. It's for the purposes of pest control of course, but while there are those willing to pay to do it there'll be those who will find a commercial outlet to allow them to do so, and lo and behold we're back to driven game! 

We ALL pay to shoot for pleasure one way or another, ALL of us. The guns we buy, the clothing we buy to do it in, the ammunition we use, all the decoying equipment we buy, even some of the vehicles we drive. It's an industry, and you're part of it. Stop being a hypocrite. 

6 minutes ago, grahamch said:

I can see no reason why any one neds to shoot 500 plus birds in a day, may as well just shoot clays. The big commercial shoots need bringing into some sort of order or I fear we will be regulated to the determent of everyone.

No one NEEDS to shoot anything. So how would you bring the big commercial shoots 'into some sort of order', and what number do you suggest we all shoot, and why? 

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1 minute ago, Scully said:

Eh? 😂 You really ought to think through your posts before replying. 

Why are you ' knocking at your perm'... I thought the landowner contacted you? Remember? You said it's not your choice, but that of the landowner! 

So once you 'have enough', you allow the pigeons to fly on unshot! I thought you were there for pest control; best not let your landowner know eh? He may find someone else to do the job properly! 

As you've suggested; let's examine both, but from the perspective of an anti, because after all, it's the future of our 'sport' you claim you want to preserve and that us game shooters are putting in jeopardy. 

We turn up, kill birds for enjoyment/entertainment/sport whatever, then go home. More in common than you thought eh! 

If you're brutally honest, the only difference between the game shooter and you, is the amount of money they have, but we all spend our hard earned in the pursuit of our 'sport' though, don't we? Some pay to travel thousands of miles away to shoot all manner of wildlife, including doves in Argentina. It's for the purposes of pest control of course, but while there are those willing to pay to do it there'll be those who will find a commercial outlet to allow them to do so, and lo and behold we're back to driven game! 

We ALL pay to shoot for pleasure one way or another, ALL of us. The guns we buy, the clothing we buy to do it in, the ammunition we use, all the decoying equipment we buy, even some of the vehicles we drive. It's an industry, and you're part of it. Stop being a hypocrite. 

subject closed with you my friend your just out to get a rise 

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3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

subject closed with you my friend your just out to get a rise 

Not at all. I’m merely trying to point out that while you’re doing what you are, you’re in no position to criticise others. 
You can either justify your shooting or you can’t. It’s that simple. 🤷‍♂️

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46 minutes ago, clangerman said:

subject closed with you my friend your just out to get a rise 

Think Scully just putting he’s opinion on forum just like yourself If you don’t like other members replying to yours then you should not post 

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A point to remember, on a 200 bird day with say 10 guns and say 5 drives  -  equates to 4 birds each per drive or  20 each for the day.

I can't see that as excessive.

Maybe a visit to a poultry processing plant would put some perspective on numbers for some.

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1 hour ago, Shotkam said:

A point to remember, on a 200 bird day with say 10 guns and say 5 drives  -  equates to 4 birds each per drive or  20 each for the day.

I can't see that as excessive.

Maybe a visit to a poultry processing plant would put some perspective on numbers for some.

100% agree. This thinking and mindset behind 'big bags' is all disproportionate. 

Many people within the shooting industry claim 400 bird days are extreme, unsporting, etc etc.

If you actually break it down a 400 bird day between 10 guns is 40 birds each over 5 drives is 8 birds a drive. Can anyone deem that to be excessive? 

If so i suggest you give up pigeon shooting or lamping vermin where numbers typically exceed that per gun.

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2 hours ago, The Mighty Prawn said:

My take on it is are the shot birds being used after? If yes crack on, if no then we have a problem we can’t justify

It is not just the bigger days where this is a problem. I have been on a walked up day where two guns out of four, both of them local RFD’s, have declined pheasants from a total bag of eleven. 

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2 hours ago, London Best said:

It is not just the bigger days where this is a problem. I have been on a walked up day where two guns out of four, both of them local RFD’s, have declined pheasants from a total bag of eleven. 

Agreed and exactly my point, shooting birds just for the fun of it will turn the public against us in a heartbeat, our only real justification is the birds are put to use

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3 hours ago, London Best said:

It is not just the bigger days where this is a problem. I have been on a walked up day where two guns out of four, both of them local RFD’s, have declined pheasants from a total bag of eleven. 

Don't see the relevance of singling out RFDs for declining birds. My syndicate often has birds left over which eventually go somewhere.

Surely the overall issue is too much game is reared and shot for the disposal routes and markets currently available? 

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You are right, no relevance at all.

In my opinion, much of the problem with Guns not taking game (regardless of bag size) is that years ago most shooters were from a country upbringing where game was often eaten at home, whereas now many shooters come into the sport without that upbringing, from towns, via clay target shooting.

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1 hour ago, London Best said:

You are right, no relevance at all.

In my opinion, much of the problem with Guns not taking game (regardless of bag size) is that years ago most shooters were from a country upbringing where game was often eaten at home, whereas now many shooters come into the sport without that upbringing, from towns, via clay target shooting.

Not disagreeing with you LB But my experience is different Me and most of my friends who hunt are from inner city Belfast we eat everything we shoot apart from crows which are usually fed to my friends ferrets I’ve beaten on big estates we’re rich Toffs from the country side hammer the pheasants and don’t take them home with them It’s all about marksmanship for them So guns not taking game is everywhere 

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Over the years we have always relied on the game dealer to off load the days bag , either big or fairly small , then around 10 / 15 years ago you could sense the way of the past of disposing game to the dealers were showing showing signs of changing , I can well remember taking just over 100 Partridges to our dealer near Norwich , our keeper always go through the bag before they are sold on and any damaged birds are kept back  ,  on this particular day I also had about 30 fresh Pigeons that normally I would have put them in the freezer but as I was taking the estates game in there motor I took my Pigeons as well , getting to the dealers I tipped the Partridges out on the table and the dealer started to look at each one and it worked out that one in ten were rejected as not big enough or had signs of damage so I took about 10 back , for the ones they accepted I got 25p each , when I tipped my sack of Pigeons out he put each one straight into the tray and not one was rejected and believe or not I got 30p each , five pence more than the Partridges . this was the beginning of supply and demand , as even back then there were more Partridges shot than the demand , where Pigeons during the shooting season were shot in a lot smaller numbers , now a days we know moving the game on is becoming a serious problem and maybe the worldwide problems we are having with the virus might sort it out for better .

Now the dealers have got game in the 1000s piled up as high as the roof tiles that they have bought with very little sign in off loading them in the months ahead ,with all the eating out places shut both here and abroad  with very little signs yet of reopening .

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