red_stag88 Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Hi all, Does anyone shoot with a hide that has a lid? I was thinking a lid could be made with your normal net, but two more taller poles at the front. You could attach the net to the short poles at the back and longer poles at the front to create a lid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butchdickason Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Used the method described when needed overhead cover and it works well, I have the second pair of poles about a 2 ft back to allow for overhead shots. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Red & Co. John batley advocates a top net in his video. Ive tried this several times, and would hesitate to say that its useless. But I can say that it was a problem with barrels getting tangled etc. Havnt used a top net for years and havnt noticed any difference, but If I were forced into a stand alone hide in the middle of a field, the top net would certainly be fitted, tangles or not! webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMMER BURT Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 :thumbs: i also have used this and have found that the hide has to be a least 6feet tall at the back so you can stand up to shoot,i have also tried sitting down but makes for real bad shooting.the john batley video is very good and he shows you how to make the hide it's bloody hurge not only has it got a lid but a back as well made with 6 to8 hide poles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I can,t get use to a roof/lid, of any sort. If I am exposed with no natural background, I ensure that the back of my hide is at least 2ft higher than me, in my shooting position. I think the roof/lid is more to prevent outline, than hiding you from overhead birds. If they can,t see you, then you can,t see, or shoot, them. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 The last four times I have been shooting including twice last weekend I have experimented without a hide. This might sound a little stupid I know. but on Staurday I set out 24 shell deeks under a beech canopy where the birds had been stripping the budding leaves and sat with my back to a hedge 40 m away in full British Army DPM and shot 38 birds. On sunday I shot 29 in a 3hour session over spring drillings similarly with no hide just crouched with my back to a drystone wall. I suppose I looked like a bush I dont know, but I did keep absolutely still with the barrels down until the last possible moment. The test will be this saturday when I shoot a clover pasture in a 40 acre field. I am not saying that you need hides or roofs or not. just that is the hide there to conceal you or your movement? The only time I have ever used a roof on a hide was years ago and it was not very successful. I kept missing potential shots which were coming in high and obscured by the netting, not to mention the bloody tangle I got myself into. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 i usaully put my hides near a Gorse bush that is mounted off the hedge.. or i have blackthorn or some other type of cover for above me. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Good topic this one. I am prepared to build a hide with a lid on, as per John Batley, Webber, and have in fact had to shoot from just the position you describe. That is, between two fields with no hedgerows at all on them. I chose to sit and make the hide as low as possible, with all the hide poles at the same length. All it involves is taking a piece of spare cammo net with you. The idea works really well and I have had good days with this idea. But, as per Fisherman Mike, I have tried this idea, and with the right background and good cammo or dark clothing, plus a minimum of movement until the desired moment, this idea also works. I like the idea of a good hide whenever I can, as I know I have a bit of leeway then with movement, until the birds approach the decoys. Like they say.....Adapt , Improvise , Overcome. But mainly be adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesspencer_2001 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 We use the convensional extendable hide poles and managed to get hold of some hospital drip stands to go next to the front two poles. These extend to 7 foot so theres no problem with tangles. Get some drip stands they have a really good top for hanging mesh. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I wondered if the drip stands came with a porter to carry them? webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Doc When you and youre mates are struggling to plumb some poor sod in, due to the lack of drip stands, you'l know where to look! Do they offer those electric reclining chairs in realtree?? webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 We use the convensional extendable hide poles and managed to get hold of some hospital drip stands to go next to the front two poles. These extend to 7 foot so theres no problem with tangles. Get some drip stands they have a really good top for hanging mesh. :thumbs: Where can you get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ears Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 In my experience of 23 years pigeon shooting, a top net or roof net works really well if the hide is out in the middle of a field. But you only want the roof to cover about half the hide top from the back to the middle of it. This way when the pigeons arrive high or come around the back or even over it, you can move to the back of the hide under it,as they return to the front and to the deeks you can then step forward up over the net and still have plenty of room to swing the gun and shoot above. Problem being if your hide is out in the middle of a field or away from the hedge 50 yards or so, i believe that you need to keep the hide low to the ground and kneel down but this makes it harder to get under the roof net when they approach, and when you have done this on your knees all day, i tend to go for a low fishing stall, and just try to lean back under the roof net. A good peaked hat helps to. In hedge rows etc you can usally find some roof cover, of some sort, so i dont tend to use them then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I was told by a chappie from Pinewood that a roof is essencial when shooting crows, would you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene molloy Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Red Ears has got it right; in the cicumstances where you need a roof, you only put it on the rear half which is the bit you sit under. Then when you stand to shoot you move forwards and upwards into the "hole" in front. That way you don't need the hide to be six feet tall...just wants to cover your bonce with a bit of clearance. You need five adjustable hide poles. Four of them form a rectangle somewhat longer on the sides than the front / back dimension. The fifth you place centrally about 3' out from the front of the rectangle, but it's only extended a couple of feet. To stop the roof sagging I have four lengths of spring steel with plastic pipe clips on the ends; these are fixed to the top of the four main poles, so in essence the framework of the hide becomes a box. That's what I think of as the "Batley" hide. Hospital drip stands sound heavy (see another post) but if a couple of pretty nurses come along with them that should be fine! When you sit in a Batley hide you are invisible from all angles high and low with exception of you chosen killing ground. You do need to look through the cover and pick up the birds as they approach, if they suddenly appear over the deeks you can fluster the shot. Regards Eug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Eug. I think that youre right with the support for the roof. Ive used two pieces of carbon fibre tube from a kite shop, expensive, but light! Eug. remember one of your previous posts about the weight of your gear? All those bits of steel add up! Did you ever drill holes into your pigeon rotor, or recruit an apprentice? I dont think that youd have much chance of getting a couple of nurses to carry the drip stands. Theyd be too busy chasing around the hospital on overtime trying to locate all the lost drip stands! webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene molloy Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Webber, Bonjour, The steel "top poles" are made from the ribs of an old fishing brolly....senationally hard stuff and a b-gg-r to work, but very light and strong; whatever the grade it beats EN58A into a cocked hat. Being the boring old frat (spot the deliberate mistook) I am, I've actually weighed all the kit and put the results in a spreadsheet. Over time I'm going to work on knocking the total down, and then post the results. Regards Eug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 From Red: I was told by a chappie from Pinewood that a roof is essencial when shooting crows, would you agree? No mate, you don't need a roof, just keep very still, face covered, until the last possible moment. Then, lights out Mr crow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted April 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Thats what I thought. By the way, the bloke who told me that was the bloke with the upside down pigeons on his magnet at the fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ears Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Red stag 88. I just saw your thing about roof nets for crow shooting. Last weekend i went with a friend to shoot rooks and crows ontop of a hill in a pigery. My net hide was behind a hedge. Hedge front three net sides and a half roof net. There was hundreds of em and they would not come anywhere near me. I shot 19 and the pigs were eating em before i could pick em up. MY freind was in a bail hide that was stacked for pig bedding, but because he could not see through it and had to look over it, they had him sussed too. he shot 100 shots for 19 as they kept turning back as he tried to see what was happening. Bloody good laugh though we had a right crack. Funny thing was a week before a bloke the farmer knows shot 176 in the same place behind them bales. Maybe they got wise real quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deny essex Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 I've used a roofed hide many times as needed , in open fields or ditches or where there is limited cover and like most things when pigeon shooting what works one day doesnt mean it works all the time, just have to read things on the day . I prefer to use the 4 pole diamond shape hide when shooting alone, by that i mean 1 pole directly in front of your sitting posistion , one pole behind and one to each side slightly forward of the shoulder line, shoulder poles and rear pole i set to approx 10 inches or whatever is comfortable above head height when sitting , front pole at normal hide height. Use 2 lightweight nets one for around the poles as normal and the other over the shoulder and back poles as a roof, i too find it easier with a half roof and the forward up movement ( am i still talking about shooting ?? ). its a good hide for the edge of laid crop where no cover is available . Might add is a little tight for break barrels but no probs with auto's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Hi lads! Ive been away for a couple of days and missed the discussion and the points about a drip stand.I had a look this morning on ours and they are very heavy as we dont stick them into ground and they need a stable base.I am also puzzled how can people get hold of them as they are quite expensive.I am sure there are better ways to build a hide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene molloy Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Deny, Four pole diamond rig...good thought. I've got into the habit of using five to make a bit of room for Fido; who often isn't with me! I'll give your way a go, at least it will knock the weight back a smidgeon. Boys, Ref Doc and the drip stands; no names no pack drill! Regards Eug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Iv'e got one for the 'DOC' in 'other types of shooting' to keep his mind off the drip stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 You need five adjustable hide poles. Four of them form a rectangle somewhat longer on the sides than the front / back dimension. The fifth you place centrally about 3' out from the front of the rectangle, but it's only extended a couple of feet. To stop the roof sagging I have four lengths of spring steel with plastic pipe clips on the ends; these are fixed to the top of the four main poles, so in essence the framework of the hide becomes a box. That's what I think of as the "Batley" hide. Do you need Planning Permission and Building Regulation Approval Eug. and How to you get your 20 tonner to the field? :thumbs: :blink: FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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