Wild hazel orchard for pigs

[PeterHenry]

Hi All,

 

Bit of an odd one - but this is as good a place to ask as any.

I'm thinking of planting a hazel orchard in order to supplement the diet of a heard of Mangalitza pigs I have. Only six pigs pigs at the moment - but I have enough space for the heard to grown in numbers quite a bit, while still maintaining a very free range / high quality life for the pigs.

Anyway - due to time constraints, etc - I want to plant a hazel orchard so I have a good supply of food that will contribute to the finishing diet of the pigs. I plan to plant about 50 trees - obviously, price (is as ever) a consideration, and wild hazel's are significantly cheaper than the grafted varietys. Now - the size of the nuts isnt of great concern to me. The overall crop is - but I accept that by using wild hazles I'll have fewer, smaller hazel nuts than if I was to plant a proper (orchard) variety.

But by how much?

I'm in South Cheshire, and from what I have read, the orchard varieties such as the Kentish Cob would probably provide sub optimal nuts anyway due to the temperature diffrence between Kent and Cheshire - so - which would be the better option? Wild Hazels or an Orchard variety?

Secondly, does anyone know how cross pollination works between the trees?

Unlike with apples, I've yet to come across any table, etc, that provides a system for cross pollination. And would that even be needed if I wanted down the wild hazel route - or would they all cross pollinate merrily along together anyway?

All answers appreciated,

 

Peter

[old man]

MHO, FWIW? Beech mast a better feed source?

The only ground I have seen turned over to pigs, a lovely wooded hillside located to right had side of the road from Minehead to Allerford has never recovered. Just bare now.

[Walker570]

I have a Kentish Cob in my orchard and \every four or five years it produces half a bucket full, then drops back to next to nothing before another boom.  I also have around 400 hazels planted in two blocks in my ten acres wood understorey to poplars and the same with them, one year a good crop next year very little. I'm not sure if frost effects hazels like other fruit trees. My orchard is above the spring frost posket but the hazels are down below.  It is going to be maybe ten years before you see a reasonable crop of hazels.  I have one block that I planted 5yrs ago and they are now 12ft high but not producing anything yet but I saw a few signs of catkin buds this last week which are early.

As said by old man pigs will devastate an area if your not able to move them from sector to sector fairly frequently.

Crab apples may be a better bet as if you plant flowering stock they will produce very quickly. The Graham Downey apple I have in my orchard produces a huge amount every year but one pig would mop those up in a day.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Walker570

[islandgun]

Nice idea..👍 I have a few hazels about 15yr old never seen a nut, long way north though [if that makes a difference] Im trying to think of a crop you could plant [potatoes] that they could forage for themselves

Walker 570 has the knowledge

Edited January 14, 2021 by islandgun

[lampro]

As above apple would be a better option easier to cross pollinate and a guarantee off fruit every season 

[CharlieT]

Firstly, pigs will route up any growing plant or tree.

Nuts cross pollinate easily. Just make sure you have similar varieties, so that they come into flower at the same time. The bushes have both male and female flowers but require another bush to pollinate.

To stand any chance of fruiting they need light pruning every winter.

With luck you'll get a small bucket of nuts per bush, so not a lot of feed produced for pigs, which is why the old nut growers grazed sheep in their nut orchards. 

The only way to make it work would be to graze the pigs in the orchard for a couple of weeks in September to clear the nuts up without damaging the orchard.

[Windswept]

I've got a few hundred hazel trees, they can produce quite a few nuts if you can keep the squirrels off. The can be affected by frost as the female flowers come out very early.

I've got a few acres that were planted up by the previous owner about 30 years ago. It's noticeable that some of the hazel trees produce much bigger nuts than others, so you'll be taking your chances by growing some native trees. I'm currently growing my own trees on from the largest nuts, hoping they will produce larger nuts.

You could try a mix, I have a few cobs and filberts and they seem to flower at a similar time to the wild trees.

I gather the way to get them to fruit well is not only pruning but brutting the shoots in summer (breaking them).

As has been said the pigs will damage the trees if left for any length of time although could could fence around the base.

If your soil is alkaline then it would be worth looking at truffle trees but you will need to keep the pigs off.

[Fisheruk]

Yes, at least 10 years before you see a crop.  I have a farm in Wales where I shoot which has plenty of wild hazel. They consistently produce good crops but some are over burdened with them one year with less the following year, but that is compensated by neighbouring trees. They were coppiced years gone by and I mean 20 plus years. After the trees are really established I doubt the pigs will root them out but you will have your work cut out keeping them in the ground until then with pigs grubbing through the area.

[vampire]

I planter 3 hazel 7 years ago and we have very few nuts off them each year for a couple of years now.we have one that was here when we moved in that's massive and produces a bucket ish each year.

If you are planting add something like elixa to the roots,you can also layer them or air craft for established plants,they pollinate in the wind.

There are a couple of farms on you tube that have gone in for hazel,worth a watch.

Can vouch for crab apple,we have masses.

[SpringDon]

Think there are better ideas. As said above, pigs will uproot young trees and nuts rarely fall from as squirrels or mice eat them off the branch.

But I would have though the native hazel will cross pollinate and adapt to just about anywhere.

[PeterHenry]

21 hours ago, old man said:

MHO, FWIW? Beech mast a better feed source?

The only ground I have seen turned over to pigs, a lovely wooded hillside located to right had side of the road from Minehead to Allerford has never recovered. Just bare now.

Good point re the beech mast. I'm going to try and keep the numbers of pigs proportionate to the site to minimize any damage - but I'm aware of how destructive they can be.

21 hours ago, Walker570 said:

I have a Kentish Cob in my orchard and \every four or five years it produces half a bucket full, then drops back to next to nothing before another boom.  I also have around 400 hazels planted in two blocks in my ten acres wood understorey to poplars and the same with them, one year a good crop next year very little. I'm not sure if frost effects hazels like other fruit trees. My orchard is above the spring frost posket but the hazels are down below.  It is going to be maybe ten years before you see a reasonable crop of hazels.  I have one block that I planted 5yrs ago and they are now 12ft high but not producing anything yet but I saw a few signs of catkin buds this last week which are early.

As said by old man pigs will devastate an area if your not able to move them from sector to sector fairly frequently.

Crab apples may be a better bet as if you plant flowering stock they will produce very quickly. The Graham Downey apple I have in my orchard produces a huge amount every year but one pig would mop those up in a day.

Thanks - all good infomation. Yes, perhaps crab apples may be a better approach.

21 hours ago, islandgun said:

Nice idea..👍 I have a few hazels about 15yr old never seen a nut, long way north though [if that makes a difference] Im trying to think of a crop you could plant [potatoes] that they could forage for themselves

Walker 570 has the knowledge

Planting a crop was something I had thought about - but I then decided against it because I wanted to maximise the flavour of the pigs with something like nuts. It might be worth treating it as just a way to feed them in the meantime untill they get to finishing stage.

21 hours ago, lampro said:

As above apple would be a better option easier to cross pollinate and a guarantee off fruit every season 

👍

21 hours ago, CharlieT said:

Firstly, pigs will route up any growing plant or tree.

Nuts cross pollinate easily. Just make sure you have similar varieties, so that they come into flower at the same time. The bushes have both male and female flowers but require another bush to pollinate.

To stand any chance of fruiting they need light pruning every winter.

With luck you'll get a small bucket of nuts per bush, so not a lot of feed produced for pigs, which is why the old nut growers grazed sheep in their nut orchards. 

The only way to make it work would be to graze the pigs in the orchard for a couple of weeks in September to clear the nuts up without damaging the orchard.

👍 That sound like a sensible approach.

20 hours ago, Windswept said:

I've got a few hundred hazel trees, they can produce quite a few nuts if you can keep the squirrels off. The can be affected by frost as the female flowers come out very early.

I've got a few acres that were planted up by the previous owner about 30 years ago. It's noticeable that some of the hazel trees produce much bigger nuts than others, so you'll be taking your chances by growing some native trees. I'm currently growing my own trees on from the largest nuts, hoping they will produce larger nuts.

You could try a mix, I have a few cobs and filberts and they seem to flower at a similar time to the wild trees.

I gather the way to get them to fruit well is not only pruning but brutting the shoots in summer (breaking them).

As has been said the pigs will damage the trees if left for any length of time although could could fence around the base.

If your soil is alkaline then it would be worth looking at truffle trees but you will need to keep the pigs off.

Thanks for that - intresting about the brutting. I'll do a test this summer on some of the existing trees.

I've looked into truffles and sadly I dont have the environment for them - which is a shame.

15 hours ago, Fisheruk said:

Yes, at least 10 years before you see a crop.  I have a farm in Wales where I shoot which has plenty of wild hazel. They consistently produce good crops but some are over burdened with them one year with less the following year, but that is compensated by neighbouring trees. They were coppiced years gone by and I mean 20 plus years. After the trees are really established I doubt the pigs will root them out but you will have your work cut out keeping them in the ground until then with pigs grubbing through the area.

👍

14 hours ago, vampire said:

I planter 3 hazel 7 years ago and we have very few nuts off them each year for a couple of years now.we have one that was here when we moved in that's massive and produces a bucket ish each year.

If you are planting add something like elixa to the roots,you can also layer them or air craft for established plants,they pollinate in the wind.

There are a couple of farms on you tube that have gone in for hazel,worth a watch.

Can vouch for crab apple,we have masses.

👍

1 hour ago, SpringDon said:

Think there are better ideas. As said above, pigs will uproot young trees and nuts rarely fall from as squirrels or mice eat them off the branch.

But I would have though the native hazel will cross pollinate and adapt to just about anywhere.

👍 crab apples are deffinatly a possible.

[Walker570]

....and with crab apples you do get that show of blossom in the spring.