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Clearing of River Lugg stopped flooding


loriusgarrulus
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The EA/DEFRA have known for years that dredging a river has to be done but like all agencies its about money.It has been stated many times that building on flood plains is no good but our thirst for housing and ripping up of trees and failure to dredge waterways will have dire conseqences Ask your elders when they last saw a river being dredged. .We cannot keep blaming global warming exclusively we have to look at when we build on flood plains where is the water going to go? If you look at some old photos of river bridges from 60 yrs ago and compare the water height to the bridge arch then to now i bet there will be big difference

He has shoen what needs doing

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I was wondering about this, living by a river you are watching the levels of your river and those it feeds during periods like this last week, there are an awful lot of rivers and streams around the country that badly need work doing on them to improve the flow. 

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As I said on another thread regarding rivers, the human race has only itself to blame, from planting unsuitable crops agjacent to rivers, to building on known flood plains.

Work does have to be done on rivers for sure and that stretch looks a bit bare at the moment but will soon return to nature. 

The big problem is when you do such work you increase the problem downstream.  Having the agricultural land either side of a waterway as permanent grass will prevent wash off of silt into the river which then has to be removed. That silt and sludge in the Lugg had to come from somewhere and probably from a bunch of maize fields upstream.  Maize is terrible for wash off, particularly if on a slope. Have a look at the bottom/lower end of a maize field after harvesting and there will be a sea of fine mud.

When this gets into a river it will coat the bottom and kill a lot of natural insects etc and prevent spawning of fish.    We used woody debris to increase flow over these areas and expose the natural gravels but of course it only moved the problem downstream where we had it carefully removed by machinery. Man made dams didn't help either.

Whichever way you look at it human intervention caused the problem.

What a natural river should look like

001.JPG

Edited by Walker570
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Our becks and streams get cluttered with wash down from the Fells, and during Storm Desmond it was the clearing of this wash down against the protests of the EA in Glenridding, which eventually led to the river not bursting it’s banks, so I’m told. 
However, there is an eagerness  to erect new builds on flood plains for some reason. There are a couple of new estates locally in which the residents have complained that their lawns ‘move’ with heavy rain, and that their children can’t play on them as they are basically marsh like. 

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51 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

As I said on another thread regarding rivers, the human race has only itself to blame, from planting unsuitable crops agjacent to rivers, to building on known flood plains.

Work does have to be done on rivers for sure and that stretch looks a bit bare at the moment but will soon return to nature. 

The big problem is when you do such work you increase the problem downstream.  Having the agricultural land either side of a waterway as permanent grass will prevent wash off of silt into the river which then has to be removed. That silt and sludge in the Lugg had to come from somewhere and probably from a bunch of maize fields upstream.  Maize is terrible for wash off, particularly if on a slope. Have a look at the bottom/lower end of a maize field after harvesting and there will be a sea of fine mud.

When this gets into a river it will coat the bottom and kill a lot of natural insects etc and prevent spawning of fish.    We used woody debris to increase flow over these areas and expose the natural gravels but of course it only moved the problem downstream where we had it carefully removed by machinery. Man made dams didn't help either.

Whichever way you look at it human intervention caused the problem.

What a natural river should look like

001.JPG

That's your fishing rod talking? Is it the Mease?

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

Our becks and streams get cluttered with wash down from the Fells, and during Storm Desmond it was the clearing of this wash down against the protests of the EA in Glenridding, which eventually led to the river not bursting it’s banks, so I’m told. 
However, there is an eagerness  to erect new builds on flood plains for some reason. There are a couple of new estates locally in which the residents have complained that their lawns ‘move’ with heavy rain, and that their children can’t play on them as they are basically marsh like. 

The flood plains always look nice though, until they flood!!

Croston near us has flooded badly a few times,  our little river feeds into the the Yarrow which goes through Croston along with the Douglas which goes into the Ribble, so there's a lot of water going that way, there has only been work done at Croston because of the constant floods but we will hopefully benefit from it.

Building on the flood plains makes little sense but work definitely needs on lots of rivers, all well and good them being beautiful and great for nature but no good if the villages flood every year. 

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I live in an area close to places that flood regularly; indeed, I can (as at today) walk to the edge of the flooding from my house inside 10 minutes.  There are various points that should be made;

  • These areas have always been prone to flooding - and as such were traditionally avoided for building except premises like water mills, lock keepers cottages etc. which had to be beside the water.
  • Generally the main towns and villages were built on slightly higher ground and whilst the access roads flooded, the town/village buildings were flood free.
  • From the time the river (both my nearest river and the Severn which is also local) were made 'navigable' with locks and weirs, they were dredged periodically, but I'm told virtually no dredging has been done since WWII.
  • Much of the land (known locally as 'water meadows' or 'river meadows') was left to grass and crops of hay and more recently silage taken in spring, then grazed to autumn, when they were left empty though the winter as they were near enough certain to flood at some stage in the winter months.  Summer floods were less common, but by no means unknown.
  • In recent times (the last 30 years or so mainly) many of these meadows have been built on, and in doing so the level was raised slightly to reduce the risk of flood.  The first ones done were slightly raised, and as more have been built in higher risk areas, the need to raise has increased.  Currently there is planning/building on I understand circa 8000 houses on land previously considered either too wet, or flood risk.
  • The result is that the water has no meadows over which to spread out harmlessly as they have been raised - and now the overall level has to go higher - result - the old houses (and some of the first of the newer ones) now flood annually - whereas before all the building they were flood free probably 9 years out of 10.
  • When the planning was out on these new sites - many many people (including me) wrote letters of objection citing flood risk issues ........ but it was totally ignored by the council planners.
  • The result is that we have a large number of people who get flooded regularly (often more than once a year), cannot get flood insurance, and the situation is and will continue to get worse ........ because building and raising the flood plain meadows is still going on.

This situation is entirely the fault of the local council - who have - against much advice granted planning on areas they must know will contribute to flooding.  Dredging would help (according to the hydrologists) but not eliminate the risk because there is now insufficient 'low lying ground' to take the flood water.

I just feel very sorry for those who live in houses that back in the 1960s and before didn't flood - and are now flooded annually because the council who are supposed to look after planning issues have totally failed in their duty.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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7 minutes ago, matone said:

Wasn`t the Somerset Levels flooding of a couple of years ago attributed to lack of dredging etc by the supposed `authorities` ?

It was and I have a recollection of watching/listening (can't remember if it was radio or TV) to a broadcast recently by a farmer who had done some drainage/dredging at his own volition - and it was looking successful so far from what I recall of the broadcast.

Problem is - a farmer can only do his area (if legally allowed) and the whole system will be constrained by the 'weakest link'.

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28 minutes ago, matone said:

Wasn`t the Somerset Levels flooding of a couple of years ago attributed to lack of dredging etc by the supposed `authorities` ?

BUT, the Levels always flooded, that was the relief the rivers had but humans intervened and tried to drain them. 

I think if my memory serves I learned that the Dutch came over to help drain along the east coat and today a large amount of Lincolnshire is just on or below sea level.

I actually shot driven partridges this season on that farm which was photgraphed in all the news, completely surrounded by water up just east of Lincoln. All of that fantastic soil we walked over would have been marsh and bog a few hundred years ago. 

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45 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

i blame the beavers.

According to BBC “Winter Watch” beavers are helping to prevent flooding down stream of their dams, how that works I have no idea as you still have the same volume of water flowing down stream.

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We've just had a two hour walk, deliberately along the river, near the sewage plant there are a couple of tight bends that are normally blocked with collapsed Willow trees,  happily found that most of them have been cleared at some point which obviously helped with the flow of water.

We went back over the river at one point,  the little bridge was probably ten foot above the water but had loads of debris stuck in it.

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

According to BBC “Winter Watch” beavers are helping to prevent flooding down stream of their dams, how that works I have no idea as you still have the same volume of water flowing down stream.

They slow the water down with their dams, but I saw a post last week saying how the beavers are damaging mature trees.

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Management of a river is a constant battle but most enjoyable. As said I had twelve most enoyable years on my 5 miles and rarely a day went by that I was on it somewhere doing something, from pollarding willows, refurbing bird boxes or removing trailer loads of plastic waste washed down from Coalville, think of something made out of plastic and I can bet i found it in our river.    The EA were always very helpful and it was they who instigated the return of grayling by donating three inroductions and now there is a native population again.  

6 hours ago, old man said:

That's your fishing rod talking? Is it the Mease?

No, the River Sence from near Heather down to near Sheepy Magna. My friend who works for the Angling Trust has done some work on the Mease and I fished it back in the late 50s with a fly much to the consternation of many of the Birmingham Anglers members.  There used to be some very big chub in there back then.  Very similar river to the Sence.

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43 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Management of a river is a constant battle but most enjoyable. As said I had twelve most enoyable years on my 5 miles and rarely a day went by that I was on it somewhere doing something, from pollarding willows, refurbing bird boxes or removing trailer loads of plastic waste washed down from Coalville, think of something made out of plastic and I can bet i found it in our river.    The EA were always very helpful and it was they who instigated the return of grayling by donating three inroductions and now there is a native population again.  

No, the River Sence from near Heather down to near Sheepy Magna. My friend who works for the Angling Trust has done some work on the Mease and I fished it back in the late 50s with a fly much to the consternation of many of the Birmingham Anglers members.  There used to be some very big chub in there back then.  Very similar river to the Sence.

Thanks. Super Grayling news.

I have a very foggy memory as a sprog being taken Sheepy way on to a small river bridge to see loads of trout rising to being fed? I may be dreaming though?

 

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What year would that be...1960ish ?    I was office boy at the Mill there then and our Managing Director stocked the lake with trout and there was also a few in the river up stream which I was allowed to fish.  The offices where I worked is now an Italian, serving high class food and the mill and it's lorry park converted to housing and flats.

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19 hours ago, Walker570 said:

What year would that be...1960ish ?    I was office boy at the Mill there then and our Managing Director stocked the lake with trout and there was also a few in the river up stream which I was allowed to fish.  The offices where I worked is now an Italian, serving high class food and the mill and it's lorry park converted to housing and flats.

Yes it would, late 59 or early 60's. Is the Italian S.G?

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