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1 minute ago, Imperfection said:

Gun cabinets are OK but all you're doing is slow a thief down or maybe make them think about taking your tv instead. As already stated, a 4" angle grinder will have you inside one in minutes. 

I have 250 kg cabinet that I needed to remove the doorframe of the closet I put it in to place it.

It will require several cutting discs, and a lot of time, to open a hole large enough or remove the cabinet door to get to my guns.

/M

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20 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

My one was fixed using huge steel bolts resin anchored full bed into a 9” dense concrete block wall. Really wanted the FLO to try and bounce it but she just said it looks solid without even opening the door 😢

And mine - resin anchors are awesome, so much better than expanding bolts that crack your bricks or spin around (or fall into the cavity wall which I’ve managed to have happen before) And the resin which splurged out of the holes when the threaded bar went it has welded the cabinet to the wall too. I hope I never need to move it! 

Edited by oscarsdad
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1 hour ago, oscarsdad said:

And the resin which splurged out of the holes when the threaded bar went it has welded the cabinet to the wall too. I hope I never need to move it! 

In my last house the safe was secured “floating” and used huge M12 threaded bar which just fitted through the oversized holes when installed. The bolts weren’t set quite parallel so getting the safe off was nigh on impossible. I used a crow bar to “slide” it off the bars after removing the nuts. When it eventually “gave” it knocked me over and crushed my leg. I was trapped under it for 10 minutes or so before I could teach a tool to free myself. 

That was the point in my life I realised I’m an idiot 🤣

I used much smaller bolts in the new house which have plenty of play on the holes. Stacked penny washers then an flanged but are used to make up the difference. 

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26F70B5C-33BD-422E-B10F-AD7A46674FFA.jpeg.2751a908b45417f44c29dd87fb1b2340.jpeg53ADF75F-7FD7-4816-B752-5F040830675B.jpeg.a76cf9186c43737286e8394a39ce225c.jpegED34AE7D-D99E-420D-8FFA-A740F1B5E4DF.jpeg.cdc06df8fd484f4f85d4967660de8ea5.jpeg8D05DA03-9630-488A-9845-218761401428.jpeg.49529d90772a43e6c6b4fd837457ee3e.jpegC0DD9AD2-4370-404A-9104-4D31170735A1.jpeg.a88e5eeea7cd74d0cac956be682b2a17.jpeg22CB832F-4841-435E-B3DE-7E2EEBB6E5F2.jpeg.18ae773b7c339031035dfab14560ab98.jpegE8987952-7CEE-4DB7-8B57-5A478878A768.jpeg.ebe5b93fc1f50e0cd6904b18aca6af01.jpegI bought a precious metal depository for a Wells Fargo at an auction.  It was 5200lbs and the outer shell is 1in Ar500 armor steel.  I drilled a hole with carbide to run electric in to and it took 3 bits to get through it.  New it cost $27,000 and I got it for under $5000 

Edited by NoBodyImportant
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23 hours ago, Scully said:

I don’t think I’ll be losing any sleep over cordless tools! If anyone decides to break in, they’ve got to do it unseen, then get past the dogs 🙂 then cut into it as quietly as possible ( if they happen to have a cordless angle grinder on them!) then get out unseen. 🙂
 

Not just cordless tools, for those that know these cabinets may as well be biscuit tins.. presumably your dogs eat sausages? Getting out is simpler with guns... Don’t underestimate the ruthlessness of these scumbags...

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Gun cabinets are only there to stop your common burglar being able to get inside with either what they have with them or your casual DIY tools they find in your house.

Anybody who knows you have guns and purposely target you (unlikely, unless you have something particularly valuable/special) will come prepared and will be inside in minutes.  I would prefer not to be around if this happens as these people probably won't care if you're in or not.  Few and far between fortunately, as nobody who needs a gun will target a license holder to get one.

Edited by jan8p
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4 minutes ago, PPP said:

Not just cordless tools, for those that know these cabinets may as well be biscuit tins.. presumably your dogs eat sausages? Getting out is simpler with guns... Don’t underestimate the ruthlessness of these scumbags...

I think we’re getting a little carried away now! 
I shall make a note to be wary of people in hoodies, smelling like sausages and carrying cordless tools with ear muffs and goggles! 🙂

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8 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

26F70B5C-33BD-422E-B10F-AD7A46674FFA.jpeg.2751a908b45417f44c29dd87fb1b2340.jpeg53ADF75F-7FD7-4816-B752-5F040830675B.jpeg.a76cf9186c43737286e8394a39ce225c.jpegED34AE7D-D99E-420D-8FFA-A740F1B5E4DF.jpeg.cdc06df8fd484f4f85d4967660de8ea5.jpeg8D05DA03-9630-488A-9845-218761401428.jpeg.49529d90772a43e6c6b4fd837457ee3e.jpegC0DD9AD2-4370-404A-9104-4D31170735A1.jpeg.a88e5eeea7cd74d0cac956be682b2a17.jpeg22CB832F-4841-435E-B3DE-7E2EEBB6E5F2.jpeg.18ae773b7c339031035dfab14560ab98.jpegE8987952-7CEE-4DB7-8B57-5A478878A768.jpeg.ebe5b93fc1f50e0cd6904b18aca6af01.jpegI bought a precious metal depository for a Wells Fargo at an auction.  It was 5200lbs and the outer shell is 1in Ar500 armor steel.  I drilled a hole with carbide to run electric in to and it took 3 bits to get through it.  New it cost $27,000 and I got it for under $5000 

Your gun cabinets are bigger than my shed! oh so jealous🤣

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8 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

26F70B5C-33BD-422E-B10F-AD7A46674FFA.jpeg.2751a908b45417f44c29dd87fb1b2340.jpeg53ADF75F-7FD7-4816-B752-5F040830675B.jpeg.a76cf9186c43737286e8394a39ce225c.jpegED34AE7D-D99E-420D-8FFA-A740F1B5E4DF.jpeg.cdc06df8fd484f4f85d4967660de8ea5.jpeg8D05DA03-9630-488A-9845-218761401428.jpeg.49529d90772a43e6c6b4fd837457ee3e.jpegC0DD9AD2-4370-404A-9104-4D31170735A1.jpeg.a88e5eeea7cd74d0cac956be682b2a17.jpeg22CB832F-4841-435E-B3DE-7E2EEBB6E5F2.jpeg.18ae773b7c339031035dfab14560ab98.jpegE8987952-7CEE-4DB7-8B57-5A478878A768.jpeg.ebe5b93fc1f50e0cd6904b18aca6af01.jpegI bought a precious metal depository for a Wells Fargo at an auction.  It was 5200lbs and the outer shell is 1in Ar500 armor steel.  I drilled a hole with carbide to run electric in to and it took 3 bits to get through it.  New it cost $27,000 and I got it for under $5000 

I would love a walk in gun cabinet like that! 😀

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On 25/01/2021 at 12:37, PPP said:

That’s the thing, portable tools have improved so much and cabinet regs are not keeping up..

Careful what you wish for!!

See the current home office consultation.  Government is already suggesting legislating for problems that don't exist, and has already legislated 'deactivation' to the point of it being not worth doing.

Also, point of order:  There are no regulations as such, Home Office Security guidelines require cabinets to be in accordance with BS 7558:1992, Specification for gun cabinets   Neither Home Office Guidelines nor (British) Standards have any force in law, unless mandated by an act of parliament or statutory instrument (SI).

 

 

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

I think we’re getting a little carried away now! 

A little paranoia can be useful.

I think the point Scully is that technology has improved to the point where the traditional cabinet will now only slow down even a moderately clueless amateur.  Whereas up until 10 years ago, you needed to be several ranks up (down?) the criminal pecking order to gain access.

However, the last thing we want to do is get into a government-mandated arms race, for something comparatively rare as thieves of whatever calibre stealing properly secured guns.

I'd suggest, if anything, the requirement for an alarm above a certain number of guns (again only a HO Guidance) be changed to and/or CCTV.

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If you read BS 7558 which is the British standards for gun cabinets, they have always known the limitations of the standard from day one.

It starts off in the introduction of BS 7558 by saying they assume the average potential thief is an opportunist and not a determined criminal specifically seeking to obtain firearms, who in their own words would be difficult to counter effectively by inexpensive means. So, they are not interested in that type of thief as they accept you are never going to stop them without a bank vault which is why the “reasonably practicable” bit of the legislation to store firearms is there.

Therefore, all they want to know is can the cabinet withstand a 5-minute attack from common hand-tools and not noisy power tools or specialist tools or knowledge.

The tools listed in BS 7558 are Club hammer 1.8 kg, Jemmy, Flat cold chisel overall length 200 mm and blade width 25 mm.

The Lab has 5 minutes to inspect then a further 5 minutes to attack, if it can be removed it from its mount (if the mount fails rather than the cabinet then this does not count) or gain entry within 5 mins it fails. A second test is then performed by a 2nd person on a second cabinet for a further 5 min, at any vulnerable point(s) identified in the first test with no prompting during the test.

The problem is where you send it to be tested to get certification, if the laboratory uses a 25 year old lab technician who plays as a prop forward at weekends you will get a different result than a laboratory that uses someone who is near retirement age and never done anything physical in their life.

I have seen on youtube $3000 gun safes that have been opened with a cutting wheel in under 2 mins by cutting the side or top just keep away from the over engineered door. No idea how my £300 Brattonsound Sentinel Plus would fair but the increase in price is probably only going to gain less than a min against that type of attack so pointless.

The only way to truly protect is to get a commercial grade safe like NoBodyImportant’s safe but at $27000 that’s not an option for most.

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6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

A little paranoia can be useful.

I think the point Scully is that technology has improved to the point where the traditional cabinet will now only slow down even a moderately clueless amateur.  Whereas up until 10 years ago, you needed to be several ranks up (down?) the criminal pecking order to gain access.

However, the last thing we want to do is get into a government-mandated arms race, for something comparatively rare as thieves of whatever calibre stealing properly secured guns.

I'd suggest, if anything, the requirement for an alarm above a certain number of guns (again only a HO Guidance) be changed to and/or CCTV.

I’m not disputing modern technology regarding its ability to make light work of gun cabinets ( during my lifetime I’ve used most tools designed for cutting up things ) I just think the chances of it being used in a domestic setting are slim ( cue the ‘ I know of someone who etc etc etc 🙂) so as I said, I’m not about to lose any sleep over it, and if the authorities who matter thought it more than a slim chance I’m pretty sure all our cabinets would be obsolete by now. 
I would, and possibly am considering an alarm of some type, or upping my security, but as for CCTV, forget it, on domestic dwellings it’s really not worth the money....and in my experience not much value in commercial settings either. 
Like you say, be careful what you wish for. 

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13 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

All this talk about cordless tools? Lots of live power points about!

Nah, you want 110 for your angle grinders etc, not 240. 🙂There again I suppose a transformer is just something else for your average gun burglar to carry about. 😀

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My cabinets are in a normally out of sight place. They now have on the front one of these smart doorbells with motion detection which records the images online and pings my phone when activated. Zero chance of the domestic animals setting it off. A weak point is if a thief turns off the router first before activation then no images recorded. Full on intruder alarms are far more costly. Much quicker response calling 999 and screaming firearms than redcare or similar. Can also call next door neighbour who is an ex copper to make sure they are 'disturbed'.

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On 26/01/2021 at 05:36, NoBodyImportant said:

26F70B5C-33BD-422E-B10F-AD7A46674FFA.jpeg.2751a908b45417f44c29dd87fb1b2340.jpeg53ADF75F-7FD7-4816-B752-5F040830675B.jpeg.a76cf9186c43737286e8394a39ce225c.jpegED34AE7D-D99E-420D-8FFA-A740F1B5E4DF.jpeg.cdc06df8fd484f4f85d4967660de8ea5.jpeg8D05DA03-9630-488A-9845-218761401428.jpeg.49529d90772a43e6c6b4fd837457ee3e.jpegC0DD9AD2-4370-404A-9104-4D31170735A1.jpeg.a88e5eeea7cd74d0cac956be682b2a17.jpeg22CB832F-4841-435E-B3DE-7E2EEBB6E5F2.jpeg.18ae773b7c339031035dfab14560ab98.jpegE8987952-7CEE-4DB7-8B57-5A478878A768.jpeg.ebe5b93fc1f50e0cd6904b18aca6af01.jpegI bought a precious metal depository for a Wells Fargo at an auction.  It was 5200lbs and the outer shell is 1in Ar500 armor steel.  I drilled a hole with carbide to run electric in to and it took 3 bits to get through it.  New it cost $27,000 and I got it for under $5000 

That’s not a gun cabinet, that’s a armoury! Very nice. 

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Some gun cabinets that are passed by the FEO could be 'opened' with a drill and some decent tin snips. But most burgers are not interested.

Your low level burgler, who is wanting to feed his crack habit, is after something quick to grab and easy to flog. Cash, jewellery, electric goods etc.

A 'professional' burgler will target things of high value. Car keys being a preference, but will take other things if opportunity arises. They know that firearms are not worth the hassle or extra time in prison if caught, so will leave them be. I've even heard accounts of gun cabinets being broken into but guns left behind by the burglers.

Those that actually want your guns will take them, no matter what. If you have bank vault they will tie up your wife and threaten to pour boiling water over her head unless you surrender access.

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21 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Some gun cabinets that are passed by the FEO could be 'opened' with a drill and some decent tin snips. But most burgers are not interested.

Your low level burgler, who is wanting to feed his crack habit, is after something quick to grab and easy to flog. Cash, jewellery, electric goods etc.

A 'professional' burgler will target things of high value. Car keys being a preference, but will take other things if opportunity arises. They know that firearms are not worth the hassle or extra time in prison if caught, so will leave them be. I've even heard accounts of gun cabinets being broken into but guns left behind by the burglers.

Those that actually want your guns will take them, no matter what. If you have bank vault they will tie up your wife and threaten to pour boiling water over her head unless you surrender access.

This is what I was told many years ago, by a chief constable who was a member of our shooting range. He said that you make it as awkward and difficult for someone to get at your firearms. Most burglars want a quick in and out and grab what they can. They don't want the time and noise breaking into a gun cabinet would cause. But, as he said, if they wanted them, then they'll get them.

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10 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

This is what I was told many years ago, by a chief constable who was a member of our shooting range. He said that you make it as awkward and difficult for someone to get at your firearms. Most burglars want a quick in and out and grab what they can. They don't want the time and noise breaking into a gun cabinet would cause. But, as he said, if they wanted them, then they'll get them.

Exactly this. My dad is an ex copper, ex armed response and most other roles, for years his guns weren’t even in a cabinet, just a cable through the trigger guard bolted to the wall. If a burglar chooses to attack my house, if we are in and they get past the dog and I, I suspect they’d still rather take the £60k car off the drive than probably try to carry a load of guns worth less than £3k unless they were specifically targeting the guns, in which case cabinet security becomes irrelevant. 

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