410 kill range

[turbo33]

I think barrel and cartridge compatibility play a large part in this too. I had a Mossberg Hushpower (FC) 3 shot. It threw awful patterns with a variety of cartridges, and at 20 yards, it was done. I read Walkers post with interest. I also have a Yilditz,O/U, as well as a Baikal Hushpower (FC) single. Both pattern really well which allows me to confidently share Walkers experiences on distance. I too, home load, 18grms fibre, 6,7. With that load, I wouldn't want to be shooting birds for the pot at under twenty yards. 

[Walker570]

Now there we go. I have a Mossy Hushpower as well and it throws pretty good patterns equivalent to my Yilditz with everything I have put through it.  Shot some lengthy pigeons with it.   Great little gun for those fields around villages where keeping the noise down is important.  I do not think you can be to definitive and need to pattern your own gun.  My friend Richard Gray shoots a Browning 410 and fairly open chokes and things still seem to fall out of the sky with almost boring regularity. On his say so I put in the #2 chokes in my Yilditz and the patterns opened up and spread alarmingly and went back to the full/full set up.  As said anything at 20yrds gets pulped.

Pin up some old wall paper on a board , measure 35yrds with a tape,   NOT striding it out and fire a couple of shots to check. 

A few years back I was talking to a relatively new shotgun shooter and he was of the belief that because his gun shot 30 inch circles at 30yrds then it would be the same at 10 15 .. 20   and 40yrds until I explained.  No kiddin.

[turbo33]

12 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Now there we go. I have a Mossy Hushpower as well and it throws pretty good patterns equivalent to my Yilditz with everything I have put through it.  Shot some lengthy pigeons with it.   Great little gun for those fields around villages where keeping the noise down is important.  I do not think you can be to definitive and need to pattern your own gun.  My friend Richard Gray shoots a Browning 410 and fairly open chokes and things still seem to fall out of the sky with almost boring regularity. On his say so I put in the #2 chokes in my Yilditz and the patterns opened up and spread alarmingly and went back to the full/full set up.  As said anything at 20yrds gets pulped.

Pin up some old wall paper on a board , measure 35yrds with a tape,   NOT striding it out and fire a couple of shots to check. 

A few years back I was talking to a relatively new shotgun shooter and he was of the belief that because his gun shot 30 inch circles at 30yrds then it would be the same at 10 15 .. 20   and 40yrds until I explained.  No kiddin.

410, probably the most underestimated gun! I agree Walker, distances can often be overestimated. Amongst the other bits in my kit bag, is the range finder, used for rifle forays.  I know the decoying/kill zone distances. I run full and 3/4 in my Yilditz 410. 

 

[turbo33]

Just noticed Old Farrier is online.........Nigel had myself and Bluebarrels, after a bit of coaching, breaking some good distanced clays!! Was a great day out Nigel!!

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by turbo33

[Old farrier]

11 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Just noticed Old Farrier is online.........Nigel had myself and Bluebarrels, after a bit of coaching, breaking some good distanced clays!! Was a great day out Nigel!!

 

Was a good day out we should do it again when the lockdown opens up 

I shall arrange something if you’re up for it 

I wasn’t going to get involved in the distance killing thread however 

if you want to try invest in some tss 9 shot and your good for 50 + yards I’m still experimenting with the loads ( thanks to a member of the forum) 

a very underestimated gun and glad you’re enjoying yours 👍😊

[turbo33]

29 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Was a good day out we should do it again when the lockdown opens up 

I shall arrange something if you’re up for it 

I wasn’t going to get involved in the distance killing thread however 

if you want to try invest in some tss 9 shot and your good for 50 + yards I’m still experimenting with the loads ( thanks to a member of the forum) 

a very underestimated gun and glad you’re enjoying yours 👍😊

Thank you Nigel............yes absolutely up for it! Have another good friend on the island, so could be an awful session!!!😂 

Just for the record, its not about W Waving, more about giving people confidence that the little calibre is up to more than ratting and airgun ranges👍 

[wymberley]

20 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

So I have a little yildiz single barrel  410 that the youngest has been pointing at clays and learning to become gun safe.

Landed a slab of 410 3 Inch number 6s  16 gram as my permission is coming into lambing season I was Thinking this might be good for keeping the corvids down rather than the rather loud clear pigeon extreme 12 bore. The sheep keep the distance but better safe than sorry.

so over to you lot any idea of kill range for these ? 

Thanks Agriv8 

 

If the gun is actually shooting 1/2 then theoretically you could reasonably expect some 30 yards for rook and perhaps 35 for crow.

[Old farrier]

23 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Thank you Nigel............yes absolutely up for it! Have another good friend on the island, so could be an awful session!!!😂 

Just for the record, its not about W Waving, more about giving people confidence that the little calibre is up to more than ratting and airgun ranges👍 

That is the thing getting the confidence that it’ll do the job and to do this you have to get out there and use one hopefully more will they are a fun gun if you can shoot demoralising if you can’t 😂

[Agriv8]

Evening all more 410 users on here than I sort possible. 
 

So can not find any credible choke marks on my little yildiz gun or box so suspect full choke.

 

[Walker570]

8 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

Evening all more 410 users on here than I sort possible. 
 

So can not find any credible choke marks on my little yildiz gun or box so suspect full choke.

 

Put a sheet of paper up at 35yrds and try a shot. If the majority are within a 30 inch cricle, then a fair chance it is full choke.  If a fixed choke then probably 3/4.

[London Best]

2 hours ago, wymberley said:

If the gun is actually shooting 1/2 then theoretically you could reasonably expect some 30 yards for rook and perhaps 35 for crow.

May I ask, on what basis do you theorise that a crow and a rook would require a different pattern?

[wymberley]

14 minutes ago, London Best said:

May I ask, on what basis do you theorise that a crow and a rook would require a different pattern?

Of course, but it wasn't me who theorised, I relied on Journee, Burrard, Eley, the BRL and somewhat surprisingly perhaps, the RSPB

[London Best]

I cannot see how there can be any requirement for a different pattern between two birds with just a half inch average difference in overall length and virtually identical body size. In PRACTICAL terms there can be no difference.

[Stonepark]

41 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

Evening all more 410 users on here than I sort possible. 
 

So can not find any credible choke marks on my little yildiz gun or box so suspect full choke.

 

 

You have a 10.2mm bore and if you can measure muzzle diameter, nominal choke can be calculated quite easily.

 

However putting pattern on paper at 35 yards and counting pellets in 30 inch circle is still the only way to be certain what the actual result is in choke terms.

 

Your gun is produced by Yildiz, who sell it as being half choke and I suspect it is there or thereabouts.

https://www.yildizshotgunsuk.co.uk/guns/single-barrel/

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Stonepark

[wymberley]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

I cannot see how there can be any requirement for a different pattern between two birds with just a half inch average difference in overall length and virtually identical body size. In PRACTICAL terms there can be no difference.

That's fine.

Could I ask if you're going to quiz those that came up with as near as makes no difference the same answers but which were based on experience?

[London Best]

Just now, wymberley said:

answers which were based on experience?

No, because their answers were based on experience, not over-thinking a problem which does not exist.

[wymberley]

2 minutes ago, London Best said:

No, because their answers were based on experience, not over-thinking a problem which does not exist.

Who on earth said - other than yourself - that there was a problem. There is a difference, yes, but 'tis marginal and as I know you'll agree about judging range, that difference is of no real consequence. Sometimes for the sake of a couple of minutes with a calculator it's good to know that what we've gained from experience matches the theory and thus the all important confidence gained by knowing that what we're doing is right is boosted

[Walker570]

Well, from much practical knowledge over a fair few years and a fair few 100 plus days on rooks and many crafty old carrions trying to sneak by my pigeon pattern, I can say categorically that it makes absolutely no difference if they are in the pattern.   They die.

[London Best]

@wymberley You are right. Problem was the wrong word to use, I should have said ‘difference.’ Sorry.

[wymberley]

16 hours ago, London Best said:

@wymberley You are right. Problem was the wrong word to use, I should have said ‘difference.’ Sorry.

Apology accepted so I'll carry on. We know from such a small calibre that the pattern - assuming, of course, that energy is sufficient -  which is what kills is even more critical. Depending upon which source you refet to for the actual figure, it is known that there is a given number of pellets on average in a pattern which is required in order for sufficient to strike the quarry on each and every shot to ensure a vital spot is struck. Therefore, it's obvious that the pellet count is ultimately a function of the quarry's vulnerable area. There is a correlation between a bird's weight and its vulnerable area. Taking the mid range weight of the two species as detailed by the RSPB then the two areas are ish 12 and 20 square inches. So there is a difference, but is it a problem when you give or take a couple of yards? We can be confident that we've very probably got it about right. What I can never understand is when the vast majority of our ballistic information is empirical in nature, where those folk who are none too keen on the theories think the basic premiss for that information originated.

[Agriv8]

19 hours ago, Stonepark said:

 

You have a 10.2mm bore and if you can measure muzzle diameter, nominal choke can be calculated quite easily.

 

However putting pattern on paper at 35 yards and counting pellets in 30 inch circle is still the only way to be certain what the actual result is in choke terms.

 

Your gun is produced by Yildiz, who sell it as being half choke and I suspect it is there or thereabouts.

https://www.yildizshotgunsuk.co.uk/guns/single-barrel/

 

hi measured with digital calliper measures 9.99 / 10 mm at the end of the barrel.

Always had it I my head it was 1/2 choke but not 100% sure !

thanks Agriv8 

[243deer]

like many my first shotgun was bolt action webly .410 with a 2 1/5 inch chamber. You very quickly learn what a .410 cannot do when taking over ambitious shots. When each rabbit represents money towards the cost of the next box of 25 plus a bit of pocket money it concentrates the mind. If it is 20 yards or less it is dead so that is what I stick to especially using subsonics.

Still the best calibre in my opinion for ratting around farmyards and rabbiting/squirreling in woodland.

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, Agriv8 said:

hi measured with digital calliper measures 9.99 / 10 mm at the end of the barrel.

Always had it I my head it was 1/2 choke but not 100% sure !

thanks Agriv8 

Assuming 9.99mm is 0.393 inch and 10mm is 0.394 inch and the original bore is correctly marked at  10.2mm is 0.401 inch, you have 7-8 thou of choke.

On a 410 this translates as about Light Mod (3/8's of choke) is is about spot on for a 410 to be useful.

 

You should be looking for around 132 pellets with 30 inch circle at 25 yards for that choke and cartidge combination, falling to 117 at 30 yards

 

Changing your next slab to No7 would up that to 166 pellets in 30 inch circle at 25 yards, falling to 147 at 30 yards which is more useful for corvids and pigeons.

 

[Agriv8]

Stonepark, 

thank-you so much for taking the time to do that not a million miles of half then.

the gun won’t have had 100 shells through it yet but suspect with the moderator that’s on its way I am hopefully going to change that.

Liking the look of my next slab being the 3 inch 7s from hull when my shooting ground open and he can stick some on there next order.

But one thing I have learnt is that there are a fair few on here with a soft spot for the Wee Pee Shooter and I suspect I will be joining your ranks. 

thanks Again Agriv8 

[Westley]

On 26/01/2021 at 10:41, theshootist said:

Agreed. It is an expert's gun rather than a gun to introduce children to shooting.

Exactly.

I taught my Grandkids with a 28 bore Yildiz, in my opinion, a far better option.