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26 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

Just a quick question, is lead to be phased out for pigeon and corvids as well as game?

If so someone's getting a bulk order from me.

The reason for the proposed phase out is that toxic shot in game diminishes its saleability both in the UK and abroad. 
Logically, due to the dangers to other wildlife it is claimed lead shot poses, the phase out should apply to all live quarry, as predators can and do feed on lead shot carrion. 
I can see pigeon decoyers simply moving onto trap cartridges if game type loads are phased out. 
 

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1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

Just a quick question, is lead to be phased out for pigeon and corvids as well as game?

If so someone's getting a bulk order from me.

At the moment and although the answer would be, yes, only if we do it voluntarily. In terms of legislation, this is not the same as stealing the hand-guns from a slack handful of UK shooters on the grounds that it involves large international business interests. Once any legislation is passed there will be built in sequential phases culminating in a timescale for the end users to use up their existing stocks - a lead time of several years.

Already done.

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https://fishandgame.org.nz/game-bird-hunting-in-new-zealand/hunting-regulations/non-toxic-shot-regulations/

The UK voluntary lead ban statement is all about large number game days, ignoring the scientific evidence from around the world which is inconvenient. Had the statement said we are going to have a voluntary lead ban for shooting anything going into the human food chain then I am sure it would have a far wider support base. Really this could have been implemented within a couple of years as there is plenty of evidence around regarding using steel shot for game and the cartridges are already manufactured.

Instead the organisations that signed the statement, without having the courtesy to consult with their members at all, threw .410 users under a bus issuing a generalised statement and so lost my support completely. 

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Hi 243deer,

I see the quote" they didn't consult with their members" quite often on these forums.  Most of the Shooting organisations are governed by "Councils", who are members voted in by all the other members.  They represent us, and our opinions.  If you really want to get deeper involved, find out who your local Council member, and talk to him.

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15 minutes ago, cardigun said:

Hi 243deer,

I see the quote" they didn't consult with their members" quite often on these forums.  Most of the Shooting organisations are governed by "Councils", who are members voted in by all the other members.  They represent us, and our opinions.  If you really want to get deeper involved, find out who your local Council member, and talk to him.

Had a direct line in person to an employee and know that my concerns were raised in the largest organisation however absolutely no response. I also emailed all the organisations that I was a member of quoting evidence - however no response apart from generalisations which said, reading between the lines, go away little man we really could not care less. I also raised the issue publicly on forums and have challenged anyone from any organisation to provide me with definitive evidence of even one game bird killed by lead poisoning - unsurprisingly the only response is that they are eaten by foxes before anyone finds them. A huge slur on the efforts of gamekeepers and also very difficult to believe.

The statement represented a possible sea change in the way we shoot - absolutely no excuse for not consulting members first and no excuse ignoring inconvenient science. I am particularly disappointed with the GWCT as they are supposed to be the scientific face of shooting sports yet if you delve even moderately into the 'evidence' they published as justification for the statement then you will see, as I did, that it simply does not stand up to scrutiny. Then all the other organisations quote the GWCT 'evidence' as the basis for a lead ban rather than simply saying we cannot sell game shot with lead so we need to stop using it.

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1 hour ago, cardigun said:

Hi 243deer,

I see the quote" they didn't consult with their members" quite often on these forums.  Most of the Shooting organisations are governed by "Councils", who are members voted in by all the other members.  They represent us, and our opinions.  If you really want to get deeper involved, find out who your local Council member, and talk to him.

They represent the survival of the organisation, and only its members if those interests are what they regard to be in the interests of the survival of the organisation. 
On the face of it they of course represent shooting as a whole, but in reality only those aspects of it which they believe will benefit what the majority of shooting consists of, and what the most influential people participate in, and that is game shooting. 
They will take your money no matter what your interests, but when the chips are down you will be left out to hang and dry if your interests are deemed superfluous or a threat to their priorities. 
Its a crying shame and both angers and saddens me to admit it. 
There was a time when only the aristocracy, landed gentry and other landowners were allowed to shoot game in the UK, and the way things are going I see nothing at all to prevent this sad state of affairs from returning. 
We have too many organisations with no real clout or influence; we are a divided lot and therefore easily conquered. Chip,chip, chip......

Edited by Scully
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On 31/01/2021 at 16:00, Rob85 said:

What are your guns that cannot take steel shot? 

A 2003 bettinsoli and my little webley and scott bolt action 410.

 

 

 

Sorry to say I skipped the little arguments going on here haha. So in short it's voluntary so for pigeon shooting will still be ok... I think that's what I taken from this... 

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4 hours ago, Fredwalton said:

A 2003 bettinsoli and my little webley and scott bolt action 410.

 

 

 

Sorry to say I skipped the little arguments going on here haha. So in short it's voluntary so for pigeon shooting will still be ok... I think that's what I taken from this... 

If you want to go down the route of steel shot....even just for ducks or shooting near wetland then stick with standard steel and don't shove high performance steel cartridges in there, something like a 32g 4 in steel will cover you shooting birds out to 40yards. You will struggle to find any steel for your .410 though. What is the bettinsoli choked at?

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On 02/02/2021 at 17:57, Rob85 said:

If you want to go down the route of steel shot....even just for ducks or shooting near wetland then stick with standard steel and don't shove high performance steel cartridges in there, something like a 32g 4 in steel will cover you shooting birds out to 40yards. You will struggle to find any steel for your .410 though. What is the bettinsoli choked at?

Great thank you for the advice, it's multi choke

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On 01/02/2021 at 08:38, Centrepin said:

Just a quick question, is lead to be phased out for pigeon and corvids as well as game?

If so someone's getting a bulk order from me.

That could be the answer, unless of course, it is made illegal to be in possession of lead cartridges.

On 01/02/2021 at 09:13, Scully said:

The reason for the proposed phase out is that toxic shot in game diminishes its saleability both in the UK and abroad. 
Logically, due to the dangers to other wildlife it is claimed lead shot poses, the phase out should apply to all live quarry, as predators can and do feed on lead shot carrion. 
I can see pigeon decoyers simply moving onto trap cartridges if game type loads are phased out. 
 

The issue would then be the selling of said pigeons. 

On 01/02/2021 at 11:36, clangerman said:

if thats the case with the amount of ban comments and opinions left on here by members we can expect a faster u turn that the government does 

That isn't how things work! The likes of BASC do not make policies. 

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On 02/02/2021 at 13:36, Fredwalton said:

A 2003 bettinsoli and my little webley and scott bolt action 410.

 

 

 

Sorry to say I skipped the little arguments going on here haha. So in short it's voluntary so for pigeon shooting will still be ok... I think that's what I taken from this... 

It is fine to use lead for now, but the future, who knows?

Your guns will almost certainly take steel shot.

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