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Some Fun In The Future I Fancy


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Older Guns will remember the 'fun' back in the '80s with the advent of NTS when steel finally became the front runner. Yon never knew for sure what size any given number meant and then they changed it all by going up one size in order to disguise its shortfall. Wounding of the quarry became prevalent. The UK government contracted a couple of outfits to make sense of it all but in its infinite wisdom BASC decided to go with a mainly USA sourced input in the findings that it produced and the government sponsored information which was gathered barely saw the light of day. Eventually, the guys who had to use NTS got to grips with it and everything settled down.

Well, we ain't seen nothing yet. For a start, back along we still kept using our 12 bores.

Currently, it would seem that the main NTS thrust is in the direction of the game shooters and we all understand why. In this respect, there are two flavours of the month. One is Tungsten Super Shot (TSS). The ability of this to maintain energy at extended ranges makes it a game changer in no uncertain terms. It is expensive and will remain so even when the usage rate drops the price. Match this ability of the smaller shot sizes to its cost, then kiss your 12 bore goodbye and hello 28. 

The other flavour which has started to wash up on our shores and which will soon gain ground is the 'penetration' buzz word. By and large this is somewhat alien to us as we've settled for energy as our performance factor (if we exclude choke/pattern from this particular discussion). However, as the TSS introduces such a major change in the concept of pellet energy, there is some merit in using penetration as a performance indicator. The problem is is that we're now back to the 80s.

So far in just a few hours I've discovered that there are at least two different spec's for TSS pellet size. One will suffice, thank you. Additionally, there are at least three different ideas of penetration within the one known standard formula for calculating it dependent upon the aim of the calculation. This needs resolving.

If the powers that be want to change our sport out of all recognition in terms of the ammunition they wish us to use, then they need to put their hands in their combined pockets in order to ensure that the transition is smooth and all Guns understand the new performance levels.

'Put up or shut up' in short.

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The only economical and environmental viable NTS is steel shot.

Even if the price of the current other NTS fell significantly which is most unlikely then how is it environmentally justifiable to use resources like tungsten, bismuth or tin on firearms ammunition given the limited quantity of such metals and their other more beneficial uses to humanity.  Bismuth is rarer than silver and together with tungsten are categorised as a rare-earth metal for a reason.

The future of shooting is at a cliff edge, with it looks, little opportunity for turning back away from the edge.
 

Edited by rbrowning2
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15 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

The only economical and environmental viable NTS is steel shot.

Even if the price of the current other NTS fell significantly which is most unlikely then how is it environmentally justifiable to use resources like tungsten, bismuth or tin on firearms ammunition given the limited quantity of such metals and their other more beneficial uses to humanity.  Bismuth is rarer than silver and together with tungsten are categorised as a rare-earth metal for a reason.

The future of shooting is at a cliff edge, with it looks, little opportunity for turning back away from the edge.
 

Steel...or soft iron to be precise is going to be the only alternative for the masses to be able to afford. I think for shotgunning this is going to be ok as most people can make it work. The problem is there is already a creep towards rifle shooting now and aside from larger calibres that can belt out a copper bullet hard enough there essentially is no viable alternative in smaller calibres

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I don’t mind using steel at all; I’ve been using SAGA and Gamebore for some time now and get along fine with them, so will never change from 12 bore. 
I am, and still will be stockpiling lead for the foreseeable future however. 

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I've used steel all season,when allowed to shoot.Had no problems with it , mostly Ely bio wad.

Have been using steel since wildfowling became non toxic ,what seems to be a lifetime now,but it has improved 10:fold since then.

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Indeed nothing against steel in 12ga and 20ga but would doubt it would be viable in 28ga and .410 hence so much interest in tungsten shot in .410

Agree small calibre rifles like .22lr and air rifles are an issue. 
 
All this lead banning is aimed at EU member countries, which we are not, so it’s time the U.K. government decided which side of the fence it is on.

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2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:


All this lead banning is aimed at EU member countries, which we are not, so it’s time the U.K. government decided which side of the fence it is on.

100%.

When it comes to the rifle shooting I can see a lot of the hunting fraternity in the EU coming out in force to oppose banning lead.

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The annoying aspect of this for me, is the loss of value in those firearms which this will make obsolete. Who is going to buy something no one can use? 
There will be no compensation scheme for such items. 
Think of it along the same lines as the phasing out of fossil fuels for our vehicles. 

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I am from republic of ireland, therefore what we do is dictated by europe. Not to get into the nitty gritty, but come January 2023 basically all lead shot is going to be banned in ireland anywhere within 100m of any flood, wetlands etc.. which in many parts ireland ,you will find it hard not to find a flood, river, lake ,bog, or some kind of water. Basically for authorities it could be easy to prosecute a hunter if he/she has lead shot on them. This is going to be the very first time this country has had to make a transition from using lead shot to some form of non toxic shot. It was fought hard to make sure this ban would not be brought in to this country, but it all goes back to the Powers that be in Brussels to dictate to us. Even though all the evidence that has been brought forward to fight the lead ban has been ignored, it really has nothing to do with lead being toxic... any way I could go on and on giving out about this new law that is going to be enforced on us but I won't.. I have heard alot of negative feedback about steel shot, and I had no experience shooting steel because I have never needed to shoot it. But I was given a box of hull steel game 32g no 4 about 16 years ago from a guy who had been over in scotland,they sat on a shelf until I fired  them last summer when I was shooting pigeon. Now back then steel cartridges were ment to be very poor performance wise, but I tried them, not expecting much. But I was surprised how hard They hit pigeon 30/45+ yards out.  Everything hit with authority , stone dead.. It's going to be a big change for irish sportsmen ,but the bark could be worst than the bite,

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15 hours ago, wymberley said:

all Guns understand the new performance levels

That statement rather assumes that people understand things now?

Take the phase out of lead away, and you'll find page after page on judging distances, choosing chokes, shot size and payload ...

Take an average game shooting ratio of 1 in 3 ..... how many of those missed are down to cartridge ? How many wounded are due to being on the edge of the pattern?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

That statement rather assumes that people understand things now?

Take the phase out of lead away, and you'll find page after page on judging distances, choosing chokes, shot size and payload ...

Take an average game shooting ratio of 1 in 3 ..... how many of those missed are down to cartridge ? How many wounded are due to being on the edge of the pattern?

 

 

For the second time in my life I'm going to waive my option which means I won't have to get tangled up in all of this. To complete your game, set and match; how many have been missed/wounded because the cartridge was asked to do something which was beyond its capability?

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17 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Agree small calibre rifles like .22lr and air rifles are an issue. 

 

 

 

Next up Tungsten cored small calibre to get weight up... I wonder where that leads..... (pun intended)

Problem that is being ignored by the authorities us that all copper or brass rounds are either semi-armour piercing or outright armour piercing compared to lead bullets which fragment on impact and rely on the bullet jacket to hold them together.

 

Why BASC, NRA don't hang on about this is a mystery.......... for safety purposes.....

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1 hour ago, wymberley said:

For the second time in my life I'm going to waive my option which means I won't have to get tangled up in all of this. To complete your game, set and match; how many have been missed/wounded because the cartridge was asked to do something which was beyond its capability?

Rather backs up the point I made initially ... how many understand current things now?

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Interesting reading Gentlemen.

I recently contacted cartridge manufacturers to see if they could supply 65mm steel cartridges.

I received replies that said they are currently not producing steel cartridges due to the high cost of steel shot and shipping costs from China.

Which puzzled me somewhat as when I was doing work for manufacturers 35 years ago soft iron shot was being made in Derby by a wire company there (iMI?)

Surely if it is expensive to import from China , is there not a business opportunity here in England?

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33 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Interesting reading Gentlemen.

I recently contacted cartridge manufacturers to see if they could supply 65mm steel cartridges.

I received replies that said they are currently not producing steel cartridges due to the high cost of steel shot and shipping costs from China.

Which puzzled me somewhat as when I was doing work for manufacturers 35 years ago soft iron shot was being made in Derby by a wire company there (iMI?)

Surely if it is expensive to import from China , is there not a business opportunity here in England?

Whatever happened to a steel shot company with a name that we'd know from early coaching days sponsorship?

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1 hour ago, Salopian said:

Which puzzled me somewhat as when I was doing work for manufacturers 35 years ago soft iron shot was being made in Derby by a wire company there (iMI?)


35 years ago the country was a different place, we had independent lead shot manufactures and powder manufactures now we have none.  It takes a matter of a couple of hours or less to make a tonne of lead shot more like a week to make a tonne of steel shot.  The steel shot company is part of clay and game Steve dales knows the shot business as his father started gamebore and steve ran gamebore for many years.

He used to own a steel shot manufacturing company in China but has now sold it and just imports as required, useful man to chat to about steel shot.

supply and demand, as the demand for steel shot increases so will the price, it may not be the holy grail some think it will be.

 

 

 

 

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