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Smart Motorways


chrisjpainter
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17 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

The " smart "motorways  also change the speed limit with those over head gantry  signs .a streach near me has them every 400 yds they are often reading different speeds to each other and can change frequently  meaning drivers spend more time looking up into the air than reading the traffic in front behind and to the side .

Cars speeding up slowing down sudden breaking. 

These obviously  create a slower overall traffic progress and a much more dangerous  environment  to navigate .

And thats without the horrors of the 4th lane  .

That's what got me, a single 50 amongst a long line of 60's with a few more 60's after the single 50. I was distracted by a couple of van drivers having a ding dong on the inside lanes.

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'Abandon smart motorways', says South Yorkshire PCC - BBC News

'He added that he had been contacted by lorry drivers concerned over the dangers of stationary vehicles in a motorway lane and the difficulties of being able to pull out into fast-moving traffic.'

I can't imagine anything worse for a lorry driver than suddenly being confronted with a stationary vehicle and having nowhere to go to avoid it. The stuff of nightmares. 

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20 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m still trying to fathom the sort of logic that arrived at the decision that this was a good idea. 🤷‍♂️

The logic that it was cheep and to keep the eco mob happy! We can’t be seen to be giving us road  tax paying motorists more motorways or lanes. 
 

adding a further lane would not work for just about every motor way junction roundabout plus the amount of trees we would have to pull up on embankment. Also I believe the changes would require huge changes to drainage as the motorway run off would need to drain to collecting / settling pools. 

I believe it would cost about the same as Building new as adding a proper extra lane. 
 

unfortunately there are mums and dads that do not come home from work because a 20p sensor breaks on there ultra low and over complicated euro 6 emission engine and the smart motorway operative in his control centre was not paying attention.

I would love to force them  to change the name from smart to roulette motor ways

Agriv8 

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Is it just me, but there seems to be a lack of what most people call common sense!

Anyone with a modicum of CS would have known that removing the hard shoulder on motorways would result in deaths.

if the Highways Agency is called to book, I see someone will be working out whether it is more economical to pay compensation for the deaths and injuries or convert them back to proper motorways

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8 hours ago, Scully said:

I’m still trying to fathom the sort of logic that arrived at the decision that this was a good idea. 🤷‍♂️

I don't think it ever was a good idea , it was just the cheapest option .

When smart motorways are working correctly,  they're great , but just the thought of what can happen when they go wrong , is enough to make you cry.

I'm a pretty experienced and confident driver , but I always feel uncomfortable when I'm on any smart motorway . 

Edited by mel b3
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7 hours ago, mel b3 said:

I don't think it ever was a good idea , it was just the cheapest option .

When smart motorways are working correctly,  they're great , but just the thought of what can happen when they go wrong , is enough to make you cry.

I'm a pretty experienced and confident driver , but I always feel uncomfortable when I'm on any smart motorway . 

Out of interest do you feel the same when driving on a busy duel carriageway non-motorway without a hard shoulder? I don't see what the difference is.  

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Just now, AVB said:

both are Multi lane, busy, variable speed, mix of lorry and cars, no obvious safe area for broken down vehicles. 

One major difference is that slow vehicles such as mopeds, cycles, agricultural vehicles are allowed (and so to be expected) on dual carriageways - but not on motorways.  Many people therefore don't expect the same hazards of slow/stopped vehicles on a motorway.  It really isn't the same set of circumstances.

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3 minutes ago, AVB said:

both are Multi lane, busy, variable speed, mix of lorry and cars, no obvious safe area for broken down vehicles. 

More concentration required on motorways, smart or otherwise. 

Drivers become complacent due to gentle rise and fall of gradient and gentle changes of direction, motorways are smooth to allow easy travel.

But the view is much more limited and due to the complacency drivers do other things more when lulled in to the false sense of security on motorways.

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3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

One major difference is that slow vehicles such as mopeds, cycles, agricultural vehicles are allowed (and so to be expected) on dual carriageways - but not on motorways.  Many people therefore don't expect the same hazards of slow/stopped vehicles on a motorway.  It really isn't the same set of circumstances.

I drive quite frequently on the A11/A14. This is a very busy road fully of lorries going to and from the port of Harwich/Felixstowe. I broke down once (I had a Defender!) and had to park half on/half off lane 1. It was frightening. I am not sure any of the lorries were expecting me to be there because they might have come across a moped/bike etc. 

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Just now, AVB said:

I drive quite frequently on the A11/A14. This is a very busy road fully of lorries going to and from the port of Harwich/Felixstowe. I broke down once (I had a Defender!) and had to park half on/half off lane 1. It was frightening. I am not sure any of the lorries were expecting me to be there because they might have come across a moped/bike etc. 

Well - in theory - you should expect slow traffic in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway relatively frequently.  On the rare occasions I have used the A14, from memory it is 'almost motorway', with motorway style slip roads etc.    Dual carriageways round here have many cyclists, tractors - and also lots of side turnings (with minimal slip roads) and horrors like openings in the central reservation for people to turn right into narrow lanes, B roads and even driveways.

There is an expectation on motorways (wrongly - especially on the smart types) that the carriageways will be very largely 'clear' (apart from queues) and be largely free from stationary/slow moving vehicles.

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2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Well - in theory - you should expect slow traffic in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway relatively frequently.  On the rare occasions I have used the A14, from memory it is 'almost motorway', with motorway style slip roads etc.    Dual carriageways round here have many cyclists, tractors - and also lots of side turnings (with minimal slip roads) and horrors like openings in the central reservation for people to turn right into narrow lanes, B roads and even driveways.

There is an expectation on motorways (wrongly - especially on the smart types) that the carriageways will be very largely 'clear' (apart from queues) and be largely free from stationary/slow moving vehicles.

Which is exactly my point. The dual carriageway I was referring to is, as you say, 'almost motorway' but without a hard shoulder. 

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Just now, AVB said:

Which is exactly my point. The dual carriageway I was referring to is, as you say, 'almost motorway' but without a hard shoulder. 

But it shouldn't be acceptable to make a road more dangerous than it was because there are other roads with the same dangers? It just means the other roads could be made safer too.

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2 minutes ago, AVB said:

Which is exactly my point. The dual carriageway I was referring to is, as you say, 'almost motorway' but without a hard shoulder. 

It is not what most of the country experiences as 'dual carriageways' - which for many places are A roads with a passing lane and centre reservation.  Round here - some  (inc parts of the A38) have now been made simply an A road with a cycle lane and central reservation (no two motor vehicle lanes in each direction)

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15 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

But it shouldn't be acceptable to make a road more dangerous than it was because there are other roads with the same dangers? It just means the other roads could be made safer too.

True. But my point was regarding being 'uncomfortable' when driving on a particular type of road. Personally I don't necessarily feel uncomfortable driving on smart/non-smart motorway nor a 'near motorway' nor a more traditional A road. I do feel uncomfortable in particular weather conditions - heavy rain, fog etc. 

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1 hour ago, AVB said:

True. But my point was regarding being 'uncomfortable' when driving on a particular type of road. Personally I don't necessarily feel uncomfortable driving on smart/non-smart motorway nor a 'near motorway' nor a more traditional A road. I do feel uncomfortable in particular weather conditions - heavy rain, fog etc. 

👍

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5 hours ago, AVB said:

Out of interest do you feel the same when driving on a busy duel carriageway non-motorway without a hard shoulder? I don't see what the difference is.  

I should have explained why I feel uncomfortable. 

I drive for a living ,  and I'm pretty switched on to my ever changing environment when I'm behind the wheel (as are most people ), my driving knowledge helps me to anticipate (most) eventualities that might happen (and plan for them) .  when driving on the inside Lane of a smart motorway,  I'm super switched on and almost expecting to see a stationary vehicle , but , lots of people don't spend their lives behind the wheel , and won't anticipate in the same way , when you add that to the fact that smart motorways can be pretty confusing for all of us ( even if you're experienced in using them) , it can be a pretty dangerous mix.

I'll make an example. 

If you're following a HGV in Lane 2 , and you want to move to Lane 1 , you'll obviously do all of your visual checks ,  then move over , you should have been able to see what's happening in Lane 1 , but even if you got it slightly wrong , that traffic in Lane 1 will( probably) still be moving and all will be well . In contrast , if you're following the same HGV in Lane 1 ,  and you wanted to move over to the hard shoulder,  you'd do your visual checks , and move over , all will probably be well , but that car on the hard shoulder that you'd only glimpsed for a second , but you thought was still moving because it's brake lights weren't on, had actually broken down . You'll probably be able to brake in time , or you'll probably be able to swerve and avoid it , right up to that last second when you can't. 

Just take a look on YouTube at cars ploughing into the back of stationary cars on motorways,  the drivers don't recognise that the car in front is stationary until it's too late , as they don't react until they see brake lights ( this goes for us HGV drivers too ) . I'll admit that you can find a stationary car , in any Lane,  on any motorway , and at any time , but by a massive margin , any broken down cars on a motorway , will be sitting on the hard shoulder , and not showing brake lights.

I hope that all makes sense. 

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