Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

If we are discussing the merits of strength in this type of stock, would carbon fibre be even stronger and perhaps lighter.

YES is the simple answer and guns are out there in carbin fibre and in my own opinion is the alternative to wood. But i will get shot down ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

10 hours ago, sabel25 said:

No not a willy ****** contest. I like timber, Proper wood and a traditionalist and time served the old ways and done besoke joinery since leaving school. No one will ever sell me the idea of laminate stocks or battery cars that cost more to manufacture and more carbon footprint and toxins in the glues

Nothing wrong with any of that;  you seem to be taking this personally for some reason. It’s personal choice. 
I have no laminated stocked guns at all; I have a few synthetic ones but the vast majority are wood.....the highest grade of which cracked, incidentally. 
The OP asked for opinions and mine is based on experience; yours seems to be based on a perceived insult to your skills for some reason. Don’t forget, your OSB ply sheathing is full of toxic glues also. 
Timber is great, and there will always be a place for it, but laminates are timber too, and while we’re on the subject, synthetics have their place too. 
Laminates may not be as attractive as wood, but you can’t knock its integrity, you simply can’t. 

10 hours ago, TRINITY said:

If we are discussing the merits of strength in this type of stock, would carbon fibre be even stronger and perhaps lighter.

Indeed. I think Remington and Benelli have both made carbon fibre stocked autos. Expensive stuff. 🙂

Link to post
Share on other sites

All very interesting, but whether it be carbon fibre, walnut or plywood it is just done to catch the eye of the shooter.

 

All 3 variants would be adequate, but two of them are unnecessary!

 

You pays your money and takes your choice!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Scully said:

Of course it is. The basic design was perfected over a hundred years ago, everything else is simply marketing. 

Why then do so many people not see this element?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why then do so many people not see this element?

Well if they did the gun making industry would be in serious trouble. 

A mate of mine who is a very good shot and has been at it years tells me he has had plenty of guns and followed the trends. After all that time he has developed a 3 point simple policy that he now sticks to

Age is irrelevant, condition is what matters

Never pays over £1000 and usually gets for half that

It must be a miroku

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why then do so many people not see this element?

Well speaking for myself, it’s because I’m a gun nut, and as we’re only here the once I consider life too short to try all the ones I want to. 
I’m with that mate of Trinity’s above, apart from the Miroku bit. 
If money were no object, I’d probably only have a couple of newish type guns, most of my firearms expenditure would be spent on classic, vintage and antique firearms; there aren’t many modern ones which float my boat at all to be honest. 
The same applied when I owned handguns. 

Marketing, and especially the marketing of gimmicks which it is claimed will make us the shot we want to be, is the industry’s only way of parting us from our money, for a mechanism which as I said, was basically perfected over a hundred years ago. 
The only thing which changes really, is the materials from which some guns are made, but in essence no one armed with a sxs or OU made last month, will have any sort of advantage over someone armed with an identical gun made 100 years ago. 
The same cannot be said of golf clubs or tennis rackets, or motor vehicles. It’s a funny old game. 🙂
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree Scully, miroku is not everyone's taste but they are a good example of an old well made reliable gun and there are still plenty of fine examples around for less than £1000.

I  had a few years shooting in late 70's early 80's then packed it in till a couple of years ago. New guns look no better to me than they did back then. However I have noticed three changes.

1. Multi chokes were rare back then and still being perfected. I would say they are an improvement

2. The high raised adjustable rib is another thing I noticed, that was not around then ... jury out for me on that.

3. The adjustable stock,  I dont remember those back then but there could have been a few around.. I would say possible improvement.

So if manufactures dont find genuine innovation or marketing gimmicks they will not sell new guns in commercially sustainable amounts

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Picked this up few weeks back, stuck it on my ticket for a good mate who’s STILL awaiting Cheshire forces to pull their finger out and process new SGC applications.  It genuinely is a very nice thing, and I’ve not seen another on the grounds. Gets a lot of positive attention and it’s new owner loves it and shoots really well with it.

it’s grown on me more and more, every time I take it out of the cabinet. 
 

not for everyone I know but if we all liked the same thing…. 

6C39818E-374C-4C76-9D4A-B924021D62B3.jpeg

F0B67309-CE3C-4516-AAA4-8A53DCCE6CB4.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Johnny English said:

I think Browning missed a trick with the sporter laminate. I think that if they had put a rounded forend on instead of the traditional schnabel,  it could have sold in even better numbers. 

Horses for courses I think, some prefer one to the other. I’m sure at some point they will make both available. They’re selling well, better than the store thought they would having had a chat with the store owner. I took his last one and he couldn’t get anymore stock.

reminds me of the old pro air rifles. Do like a laminated stock, just for the fact it’s different. 
 

Then again I shoot a TSK stock which looks like a prosthetic… I’ll get my coat 😂 

Edited by TK421
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Picked this up few weeks back, stuck it on my ticket for a good mate who’s STILL awaiting Cheshire forces to pull their finger out and process new SGC applications.  It genuinely is a very nice thing, and I’ve not seen another on the grounds. Gets a lot of positive attention and it’s new owner loves it and shoots really well with it.

it’s grown on me more and more, every time I take it out of the cabinet. 
 

not for everyone I know but if we all liked the same thing…. 

6C39818E-374C-4C76-9D4A-B924021D62B3.jpeg

F0B67309-CE3C-4516-AAA4-8A53DCCE6CB4.jpeg

I love the grey laminate, wouldnt care if its half a kg heavier.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pangolin said:

I love the grey laminate, wouldnt care if its half a kg heavier.

As mentioned he’s shooting really well with it, with lots of interested members at the ground paying an interest. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

Good.

I was looking at a Savage 93r17 in laminate or a Ruger M77 Hawkeye All Weather.

It’s just nice to see something different I guess. I’m not into all this snake oil BS which seems to creep into every industry/sport/hobby etc but the laminated and also synthetic stocks can, from an aesthetics standpoint, look really good. Even better if they shoot well, which this one seems to for my pal. 

00D983B9-8707-4732-ACE7-6FC43E497816.jpeg

91B5419E-B86F-4907-AAFC-E24D989A2466.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

All honestly hunters have different tastes which is why there so many different stocks,barrel lengths etc That’s why the manufacturers bring out new models all the time I think gun Fit more important than anything else If the gun doesn’t fit You can’t shoot well with it Then it doesn’t matter how fancy it looks 

I may add years back I bought a beretta silver pigeon the fancy wood stock and engraving model Could not hit anything with it sold it after 6 months at a loss My fault the gun looked amazing when I seen it in the shop But Didn’t Think of gun fit Out in the field 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/02/2021 at 17:34, button said:

So this today, new 525 GL, normally I would say I'm a bit of a traditionalist but I'm quite drawn to this, so my question is what is the supposed advantage of Laminate and does it require any extra care?

The Germans likely are the ones who began using it for woodwork on Mauser rifles. The advantages to them were that they were running out of wood IN SUITABLE LENGTHS for the near three foot long one piece stocks on their Mauser 98K rifles. We, the Brits, as a legacy of the two piece stock on the Martini Henry had on the SMLE and the No4 had a separate butt didn't so much have the need apparently. We only needed by comparison mostly short lengths.

Now in modern times of peace supply of suitable long lengths isn't, as such, an issue. And of course in any case the length of wood...butt and forend...in a Browning O/U isn't long at all. So why now in 2021? As others said the benefits (also noted by the Germans) are strength, lack of warping...supposedly...and as the stock is a laminate it is far far away stronger through the wrist.

The disadvantage though is that it will usually be heavier although to a lesser extent it also will be stronger to be then drilled out at the rear to lighten in. Will they last? I see no reason why not. Nazi German 98K rifles with laminate stocks still are sound. Would I have one? I think it's horses for courses.

Given the choice of laminate or solid beech I'd choose beech as I wonder how a laminate stock can be bent for cast? For it it needs "moving" over to fit I doubt it can be done. So to increase cast what do you do? Actually instead remove wood from the comb? And then if a subsequent owner needs less cast what then? A piece inletted? 

So my thoughts are if it fits you it will be durable and strong. But if it doesn't fit its very benefits of not warping or "moving" will mean it can't accommodate changes in cast (using conventional heating and bending) but only by wood removal or wood addition. 

Edited by enfieldspares
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

The Germans likely are the ones who began using it for woodwork on Mauser rifles. The advantages to them were that they were running out of wood IN SUITABLE LENGTHS for the near three foot long one piece stocks on their Mauser 98K rifles. We, the Brits, as a legacy of the two piece stock on the Martini Henry had on the SMLE and the No4 had a separate butt didn't so much have the need apparently. We only needed by comparison mostly short lengths.

Now in modern times of peace supply of suitable long lengths isn't, as such, an issue. And of course in any case the length of wood...butt and forend...in a Browning O/U isn't long at all. So why now in 2021? As others said the benefits (also noted by the Germans) are strength, lack of warping...supposedly...and as the stock is a laminate it is far far away stronger through the wrist.

The disadvantage though is that it will usually be heavier although to a lesser extent it also will be stronger to be then drilled out at the rear to lighten in. Will they last? I see no reason why not. Nazi German 98K rifles with laminate stocks still are sound. Would I have one? I think it's horses for courses.

Given the choice of laminate or solid beech I'd choose beech as I wonder how a laminate stock can be bent for cast? For it it needs "moving" over to fit I doubt it can be done. So to increase cast what do you do? Actually instead remove wood from the comb? And then if a subsequent owner needs less cast what then? A piece inletted? 

So my thoughts are if it fits you it will be durable and strong. But if it doesn't fit its very benefits of not warping or "moving" will mean it can't accommodate changes in cast (using conventional heating and bending) but only by wood removal or wood addition. 

Does anyone ever have a gun ‘bent for cast’? I don’t know of anyone who has, and the whole point of an adjustable comb is to negate the need. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scully said:

Does anyone ever have a gun ‘bent for cast’? I don’t know of anyone who has, and the whole point of an adjustable comb is to negate the need. 

Yes. Cast-off by bending the stock through the hand to left or right accommodate someone with a "fat" face and/or broad or narrow shoulders or cast-on for a left handed shot shooting from the left shoulder with a left master eye. All an adjustable comb does AFAIK is adjust the drop of the stock where the shot's head contacts it along the length of the comb and not the cast.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Yes. Cast-off by bending the stock through the hand to left or right accommodate someone with a "fat" face and/or broad or narrow shoulders or cast-on for a left handed shot shooting from the left shoulder with a left master eye. All an adjustable comb does AFAIK is adjust the drop of the stock where the shot's head contacts it along the length of the comb and not the cast.

I know how it’s done, or at least why it’s done, but I don’t know of anyone who’s had it done. 
An adjustable comb, or I should say a ‘fully’ adjustable comb caters for drop as well as cast. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Scully said:

I know how it’s done, or at least why it’s done, but I don’t know of anyone who’s had it done. 
An adjustable comb, or I should say a ‘fully’ adjustable comb caters for drop as well as cast. 

I think that with O/U guns you may have some validity in what you say. My reply was based on the Browning have its comb merely adjustable for up or down and the tilt of that up or down. If it is fully adjustable it should, as you say, allow both to be adjusted.

But for sure in a S/B/S it is most unusual for a gun not to be cast. And to a lesser degree in an O/U depending more so there on the style the owner shoots it in whether head relatively erect or (the same way I shot my Greener GP) with head down and across.

Edited by enfieldspares
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I think that with O/U guns you may have some validity in what you say. My reply was based on the Browning have its comb merely adjustable for up or down and the tilt of that up or down. If it is fully adjustable it should, as you say, allow both to be adjusted.

But for sure in a S/B/S it is most unusual for a gun not to be cast. And to a lesser degree in an O/U depending more so there on the style the owner shoots it in whether head relatively erect or (the same way I shot my Greener GP) with head down and across.

As far as I’m aware the only shotguns which don’t have cast are SA’s and pumps, and this is catered for if needed, by the use of shims. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Scully said:

Does anyone ever have a gun ‘bent for cast’? I don’t know of anyone who has, and the whole point of an adjustable comb is to negate the need. 

Yes. I have had a few altered over the years and have some friends who have also had it done. All SxS guns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...