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Trump found not guilty in impeachment trial.


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14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

... But... 

Not content with driving a stake through the monsters heart, the left wing vampire hunters are now attempting to nail the coffin shut and burn it on the bonfire of democracy. 

And they aren't too fussed about how they do it, they failed to bar him from office, twice now, but they are still saying he's guilty, and are now calling 75 million voters idiots and cult followers! 

Do they learn nothing? 

Do they expect them to turn to dem voters via insults? 

Sorry, I'm not quite with you, as I think we might be agreeing with each other on this? I said the lawyer interviewed had a fair point about the media's relentless quest for blood, however it comes, right?

As to your next bit, yeah I agree. with you. The Dems seem hell-bent on this nonsensical path they've chosen. It was clear the evidence wasn't there and the numbers in the senate weren't there either. Then they're caught manipulating the evidence (that deserves an enquiry, particularly if it leads to misconduct by Bitter Miss Nancy), all the while trying to claim some higher moral ground? Yeah that's not going to work. 

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7 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Trump appealed to the poorly educated, often lowly paid with much reduced social expectations - the kinds of people that we have here that probably believe much of the  content printed in the tabloid press is true.  Trump gave them hope - hope that America would return to it's glory days of the 1980s/90s. 

Do you mean the people who saw that a constant cycle of Bush / Clinton / Obama dynasties was going to continue to provide nothing for them?

Your post seems to suggest that these people are in some way inferior to non-Trump voting individuals.

7 hours ago, saddler said:

Trump was no Bill Clinton, that's for sure

And this is what I don't get, why the vitriol thrown at Trump was never aimed at Bill Clinton. A man who bombed some of the poorest nations on earth by way of providing a distraction whenever the heat was on him regarding numerous allegations of sex crimes

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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

So basically a little more totally un provable character assassination to try and make as much of the public hate hinm as possible, they are that scared of him? 

What are we talking about.? 

'Trump spoke nasty words to me once' 

'Trump didn't flush after using the toilet' 

'He got fake tan on the wallpaper' 

I've said it before, if they had dirt, they would have used it already, if any comes out now ,it's likely pure invention, that can never be challenged or proven. 

... But... 

Not content with driving a stake through the monsters heart, the left wing vampire hunters are now attempting to nail the coffin shut and burn it on the bonfire of democracy. 

And they aren't too fussed about how they do it, they failed to bar him from office, twice now, but they are still saying he's guilty, and are now calling 75 million voters idiots and cult followers! 

Do they learn nothing? 

Do they expect them to turn to dem voters via insults? 

The Dems and their media pals are now in shrill panic mode as Trump has kept his council up to the decision but has now made it clear he is now on the warpath ....HAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH sorry sorry sorry..  I mentioned WAR!!  Panic panic!!!    Calm down, it is just a figure of speach like .." We will fight this".

In fact is the only US President to date who have brought the middle east to the table to talk peace. I don't include Iran in that but at least he hasn't shipped untold billions of dollars by plane to Iran with no questions asked like Biden and Obama did. 

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13 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

The Dems and their media pals are now in shrill panic mode as Trump has kept his council up to the decision but has now made it clear he is now on the warpath ....HAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH sorry sorry sorry..  I mentioned WAR!!  Panic panic!!!    Calm down, it is just a figure of speach like .." We will fight this".

In fact is the only US President to date who have brought the middle east to the table to talk peace. I don't include Iran in that but at least he hasn't shipped untold billions of dollars by plane to Iran with no questions asked like Biden and Obama did. 

If you mean the Israel/Palestine Middle East peace, then 2 problems with that.

1) Trump hasn't brought them to the peace table. The Palestinians have refused to engage because the plan brought was so heavily in favour of the Israelis that they couldn't agree to it. He then closed the Palestinian offices in  Washington and cut off millions of dollars in aid.

2) Clinton brought them to the table in the year 2000 at Camp David. Whilst those talks failed to progress the situation, Clinton's administration was very involved in the Oslo Peace Accord, 1993.

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4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

 

No i was not referring to Palestine and you know it.

I mean the peace accord signed by a number of Middle Eastern and Morrocan countries. the Palestinians are never going to be peaceful, so don't hold your breath.

No, I didn't know it....hence why I said 'IF'. Thank you for clarifying. The Palestinians certainly won't sign the peace offered to it on Trump's terms. That was an abomination. I'm also not sure how the deal he's created will substantially improve things anyway, but it's good that there is some normalisation of ties. between Israel and Arab states. It's just a pity Washington burned Palestine to do it.

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2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

To be accurate, he wasn't found not guilty

So hes guilty then? 

Morally? Constructively? 

It makes a mockery of the system when, if you can't get the result you want, having manipulated/bent the law to make it stick, you still declare the defendant guilty anyway {as the dems Are doing}? 

They've got into power, why do they need to consolidate? 

You would think they would try to mend the divisions in society, but they parade the dem Congress onto the left MSM, slagging off 75 million Trump voters? 

They are creating anger.. The purpose of which I can only guess at. 

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23 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Just out of curiosity, what are the trump policies that you all don’t agree with?.  

Thats a very good question, especially when Joes continued a lot of those that the dems pulled apart when they were campaigning .

The media has done such a good job of creating an irrational hatred for Trump, most haters dont even know why they hate.

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6 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Just out of curiosity, what are the trump policies that you all don’t agree with?.  

Like I said earlier, I'm not a fan of the guy personally, but as a president I think he's done a good job and as a UK citizen, he's certainly put his hand towards us in friendship, despite some of our petty politicians sniping at him. 

 

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5 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Just out of curiosity, what are the trump policies that you all don’t agree with?.  

Trump policies, or Republican politics? 

I come down on the other side of a fair few traditional Republican ideals. Given that he's a Republican and hasn't gone against anything major within the GOP philosophy, he'd already be on a losing battle in trying to get my vote. I'm pro-centralised government, strongly in favour of gun control, anti-death penalty and would not be so cash happy on the military. The tax model of the Dems is more in line of my thinking too, as would be healthcare. Plus a few other things that are becoming less of an issue as the GOP evolves, but nonetheless are still there.

But specifically Trump, removing Obamacare was a shocking move. I'd have been less vehement against it had the republicans replaced it with something else. Instead he took it away from millions and left them nothing in its place. They were promised something that was going to be far better, brilliant so much better than obamacare that was gonna be great, so great. But it never came. 

As already stated somewhere else, I'm opposed to the building of the wall (such as you can call it 'building' if you only get round to making 30-odd miles on a 2000 mile border). I think it's a terrible idea both on a practical and ethical level. I don't think it would have achieved what it was heralded to do. I also strongly disagree with the way he funded it. I think bypassing congress by arguing it was a national security issue, thus getting the military to pay for it, sets a very dangerous precedent. Speaking of the wall, I completely disagreed with how Trump's administration behaved. Splitting children from their parents should not have been done, although I accept it was in a relatively small number of cases, but even so. Trump should not have tried to tie asylum to entry, as he did in 2018. the authenticity of asylum is based purely on the treatment received from the place a claimant is coming, nothing more, which is why it was so easily struck down by the courts and why the Supreme Court wouldn't even get involved.  Barring victims of domestic or gang violence from seeking asylum is cruel, but it is also a Trojan Horse; the scope of its definition is so wide that it drastically limits the potential for anyone to claim asylum, such is the control that gangs and gang culture has in many Latin American countries. Trump has tried to roll up the windows and deny the situation is there, despite the fact that it is America enabling the perpetrators of those crimes. A solution that makes the situation worse is no solution at all.

Trump's economics have no doubt been very good for some areas, but his trade war with China has not had the desired effect and it's left some areas. It did not have the desired effect of stimulating the manufacturing market within the US and the US deficit with China was ultimately unaffected. It did dip for a while, but it then returned and over the same period, the overall deficit increased. Estimates vary, but it probably cost the US in the region of $200-400 billion. That's been born not by the Federal Government but by private industry. Farmers still support Trump, but the agricultural export industry was badly affected and there's not clear indication that the pressure exerted by this round of trade wars has had any obvious impact on China. I agree that pressure needs to be brought on China, particularly in light of its continued and even expanded human rights abuses, but the trade war just wasn't the answer. 'Trade wars are easy to win'? No...not so much...no.

His administration's handling of the pandemic has been dreadful. They were so fast to develop a test, but after that it's been a chaotic, flawed and at times non-existent methodology. He got that badly, badly wrong and the cost has been in American lives. 

As I've hinted at already, I strongly disagree with his administration's actions in the middle east. He's obviously had some successes with normalising relations between Israel and neighbouring Muslim countries, but it has come at a terrible cost to the Palestinians and has trampled over the two state solution, which is the only realistic opportunity to create a lasting peace in the area between the two main protagonists of violence. Kushner's created a monster that the Palestinians cannot sign, because it gives the Israelis everything they wanted, and then heaped the blame on Palestine for not signing. Added to which they removed hundreds of millions of dollars of aid and shut down the Washington offices of Palestine. That will make them even more desperate and even more vengeful, so I can't see how it's going to bring peace to the area. 

I wouldn't support any president  who's at the helm for those policies. But I think why so many loathe him is his character. He brings out everything that is bad about politics and then revels in it. He was touted as bringing a new breed of politics in, because he wasn't part of THE SYSTEM. But he more perfectly embodies everything that we hate about the system than any politician we have seen for decades. He gives jobs to his pals, whether they have experience or ability or not. He gives jobs to family members, simply because he can. He's petty, small minded and vindictive. He has no regard for the truth and is happy to let the most absurd conspiracy theories run wild so long as they benefit him. He cannot accept a difference of opinion and fires anyone who offers counsel that he finds distasteful. The constant revolving door of senior positions makes for a chaotic and untrustworthy administration. He picks at every possible seam to create disunity. I know a lot of these accusations can be made against Pelosi in particular, but I'd want her out too and that doesn't make Trump any better! 

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6 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

Trump policies, or Republican politics? 

I come down on the other side of a fair few traditional Republican ideals. Given that he's a Republican and hasn't gone against anything major within the GOP philosophy, he'd already be on a losing battle in trying to get my vote. I'm pro-centralised government, strongly in favour of gun control, anti-death penalty and would not be so cash happy on the military. The tax model of the Dems is more in line of my thinking too, as would be healthcare. Plus a few other things that are becoming less of an issue as the GOP evolves, but nonetheless are still there.

But specifically Trump, removing Obamacare was a shocking move. I'd have been less vehement against it had the republicans replaced it with something else. Instead he took it away from millions and left them nothing in its place. They were promised something that was going to be far better, brilliant so much better than obamacare that was gonna be great, so great. But it never came. 

As already stated somewhere else, I'm opposed to the building of the wall (such as you can call it 'building' if you only get round to making 30-odd miles on a 2000 mile border). I think it's a terrible idea both on a practical and ethical level. I don't think it would have achieved what it was heralded to do. I also strongly disagree with the way he funded it. I think bypassing congress by arguing it was a national security issue, thus getting the military to pay for it, sets a very dangerous precedent. Speaking of the wall, I completely disagreed with how Trump's administration behaved. Splitting children from their parents should not have been done, although I accept it was in a relatively small number of cases, but even so. Trump should not have tried to tie asylum to entry, as he did in 2018. the authenticity of asylum is based purely on the treatment received from the place a claimant is coming, nothing more, which is why it was so easily struck down by the courts and why the Supreme Court wouldn't even get involved.  Barring victims of domestic or gang violence from seeking asylum is cruel, but it is also a Trojan Horse; the scope of its definition is so wide that it drastically limits the potential for anyone to claim asylum, such is the control that gangs and gang culture has in many Latin American countries. Trump has tried to roll up the windows and deny the situation is there, despite the fact that it is America enabling the perpetrators of those crimes. A solution that makes the situation worse is no solution at all.

Trump's economics have no doubt been very good for some areas, but his trade war with China has not had the desired effect and it's left some areas. It did not have the desired effect of stimulating the manufacturing market within the US and the US deficit with China was ultimately unaffected. It did dip for a while, but it then returned and over the same period, the overall deficit increased. Estimates vary, but it probably cost the US in the region of $200-400 billion. That's been born not by the Federal Government but by private industry. Farmers still support Trump, but the agricultural export industry was badly affected and there's not clear indication that the pressure exerted by this round of trade wars has had any obvious impact on China. I agree that pressure needs to be brought on China, particularly in light of its continued and even expanded human rights abuses, but the trade war just wasn't the answer. 'Trade wars are easy to win'? No...not so much...no.

His administration's handling of the pandemic has been dreadful. They were so fast to develop a test, but after that it's been a chaotic, flawed and at times non-existent methodology. He got that badly, badly wrong and the cost has been in American lives. 

As I've hinted at already, I strongly disagree with his administration's actions in the middle east. He's obviously had some successes with normalising relations between Israel and neighbouring Muslim countries, but it has come at a terrible cost to the Palestinians and has trampled over the two state solution, which is the only realistic opportunity to create a lasting peace in the area between the two main protagonists of violence. Kushner's created a monster that the Palestinians cannot sign, because it gives the Israelis everything they wanted, and then heaped the blame on Palestine for not signing. Added to which they removed hundreds of millions of dollars of aid and shut down the Washington offices of Palestine. That will make them even more desperate and even more vengeful, so I can't see how it's going to bring peace to the area. 

I wouldn't support any president  who's at the helm for those policies. But I think why so many loathe him is his character. He brings out everything that is bad about politics and then revels in it. He was touted as bringing a new breed of politics in, because he wasn't part of THE SYSTEM. But he more perfectly embodies everything that we hate about the system than any politician we have seen for decades. He gives jobs to his pals, whether they have experience or ability or not. He gives jobs to family members, simply because he can. He's petty, small minded and vindictive. He has no regard for the truth and is happy to let the most absurd conspiracy theories run wild so long as they benefit him. He cannot accept a difference of opinion and fires anyone who offers counsel that he finds distasteful. The constant revolving door of senior positions makes for a chaotic and untrustworthy administration. He picks at every possible seam to create disunity. I know a lot of these accusations can be made against Pelosi in particular, but I'd want her out too and that doesn't make Trump any better! 

😴

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14 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

Trump policies, or Republican politics? 

I come down on the other side of a fair few traditional Republican ideals. Given that he's a Republican and hasn't gone against anything major within the GOP philosophy, he'd already be on a losing battle in trying to get my vote. I'm pro-centralised government, strongly in favour of gun control, anti-death penalty and would not be so cash happy on the military. The tax model of the Dems is more in line of my thinking too, as would be healthcare. Plus a few other things that are becoming less of an issue as the GOP evolves, but nonetheless are still there.

But specifically Trump, removing Obamacare was a shocking move. I'd have been less vehement against it had the republicans replaced it with something else. Instead he took it away from millions and left them nothing in its place. They were promised something that was going to be far better, brilliant so much better than obamacare that was gonna be great, so great. But it never came. 

As already stated somewhere else, I'm opposed to the building of the wall (such as you can call it 'building' if you only get round to making 30-odd miles on a 2000 mile border). I think it's a terrible idea both on a practical and ethical level. I don't think it would have achieved what it was heralded to do. I also strongly disagree with the way he funded it. I think bypassing congress by arguing it was a national security issue, thus getting the military to pay for it, sets a very dangerous precedent. Speaking of the wall, I completely disagreed with how Trump's administration behaved. Splitting children from their parents should not have been done, although I accept it was in a relatively small number of cases, but even so. Trump should not have tried to tie asylum to entry, as he did in 2018. the authenticity of asylum is based purely on the treatment received from the place a claimant is coming, nothing more, which is why it was so easily struck down by the courts and why the Supreme Court wouldn't even get involved.  Barring victims of domestic or gang violence from seeking asylum is cruel, but it is also a Trojan Horse; the scope of its definition is so wide that it drastically limits the potential for anyone to claim asylum, such is the control that gangs and gang culture has in many Latin American countries. Trump has tried to roll up the windows and deny the situation is there, despite the fact that it is America enabling the perpetrators of those crimes. A solution that makes the situation worse is no solution at all.

Trump's economics have no doubt been very good for some areas, but his trade war with China has not had the desired effect and it's left some areas. It did not have the desired effect of stimulating the manufacturing market within the US and the US deficit with China was ultimately unaffected. It did dip for a while, but it then returned and over the same period, the overall deficit increased. Estimates vary, but it probably cost the US in the region of $200-400 billion. That's been born not by the Federal Government but by private industry. Farmers still support Trump, but the agricultural export industry was badly affected and there's not clear indication that the pressure exerted by this round of trade wars has had any obvious impact on China. I agree that pressure needs to be brought on China, particularly in light of its continued and even expanded human rights abuses, but the trade war just wasn't the answer. 'Trade wars are easy to win'? No...not so much...no.

His administration's handling of the pandemic has been dreadful. They were so fast to develop a test, but after that it's been a chaotic, flawed and at times non-existent methodology. He got that badly, badly wrong and the cost has been in American lives. 

As I've hinted at already, I strongly disagree with his administration's actions in the middle east. He's obviously had some successes with normalising relations between Israel and neighbouring Muslim countries, but it has come at a terrible cost to the Palestinians and has trampled over the two state solution, which is the only realistic opportunity to create a lasting peace in the area between the two main protagonists of violence. Kushner's created a monster that the Palestinians cannot sign, because it gives the Israelis everything they wanted, and then heaped the blame on Palestine for not signing. Added to which they removed hundreds of millions of dollars of aid and shut down the Washington offices of Palestine. That will make them even more desperate and even more vengeful, so I can't see how it's going to bring peace to the area. 

I wouldn't support any president  who's at the helm for those policies. But I think why so many loathe him is his character. He brings out everything that is bad about politics and then revels in it. He was touted as bringing a new breed of politics in, because he wasn't part of THE SYSTEM. But he more perfectly embodies everything that we hate about the system than any politician we have seen for decades. He gives jobs to his pals, whether they have experience or ability or not. He gives jobs to family members, simply because he can. He's petty, small minded and vindictive. He has no regard for the truth and is happy to let the most absurd conspiracy theories run wild so long as they benefit him. He cannot accept a difference of opinion and fires anyone who offers counsel that he finds distasteful. The constant revolving door of senior positions makes for a chaotic and untrustworthy administration. He picks at every possible seam to create disunity. I know a lot of these accusations can be made against Pelosi in particular, but I'd want her out too and that doesn't make Trump any better! 

All valid analysis, whilst I don’t agree with some of your points (e.g. death penalty) I appreciate the effort invested in articulating your rationale clearly. I have very rarely seen anyone actually respond to direct questions in an open and educated way 👍

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51 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

All valid analysis, whilst I don’t agree with some of your points (e.g. death penalty) I appreciate the effort invested in articulating your rationale clearly.

Indeed, but just on the refugee/asylum question, seperating kids from parents was a continuation of Obama policy - just this time with a media circus, because well, Trump and if he's doing it it, it must be bad.

 

15 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

I'm pro-centralised government, THE UNITED STATES of America.  By definition not centralised

strongly in favour of gun control, Because it works SO WELL in the UK (it doesn't). For an example closer to home, see Canada banning of 12-gauge shotguns in law (but not in practice. Probably.).

anti-death penalty Other than the odd, rare federal execution (Admittedly accelerated under Trump), criminal justice is a state-level matter and nothing to do with the president.

and would not be so cash happy on the military Hmmm, Dems are the same

 

15 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

But specifically Trump, removing Obamacare was a shocking move. I'd have been less vehement against it had the republicans replaced it with something else. Instead he took it away from millions and left them nothing in its place. They were promised something that was going to be far better, brilliant so much better than obamacare that was gonna be great, so great. But it never came. 

You clearly don't understand why Obamacare was so hated - The minute Obamacare was implemented, insurance costs for millions of Americans who could just about afford it/had it through their employer, shot up overnight. Good luck hearing about that on UK media though.

Meanwhile, those who were entitled to Medicare/Medicaid still had cover, and still paid nothing.

'Middle America' couldn't wait to get rid of Obamacare, including a lot of Dem voters.

Last time I was over in the US, my brother's girlfriend, who has no job/cover needed a visit to the ER...She relayed a story of fantastic, instant treatment, and absolutely no bill...YMMV, of course, and for the record this was in the 'socialist republic' of Arizona....

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16 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You clearly don't understand why Obamacare was so hated - The minute Obamacare was implemented, insurance costs for millions of Americans who could just about afford it/had it through their employer, shot up overnight. Good luck hearing about that on UK media though.

Meanwhile, those who were entitled to Medicare/Medicaid still had cover, and still paid nothing.

'Middle America' couldn't wait to get rid of Obamacare, including a lot of Dem voters.

Last time I was over in the US, my brother's girlfriend, who has no job/cover needed a visit to the ER...She relayed a story of fantastic, instant treatment, and absolutely no bill...YMMV, of course, and for the record this was in the 'socialist republic' of Arizona....

By pro centralised, I merely meant pro-big, federal government, so more power at a central level, more able to provide a unifying direction than greater power distributed to individual states. I suspect I might feel differently about tat were I actually American and thus felt like an Iowan, Nebraskan, Californian etc. But as I am now, that philosophy is more in line with the Democrats.

I'm also aware that the death penalty is mostly a state issue. But here's a thing. State executions are at a 37 year low. 2020 federal executions were at a 100plus year high. Number of state executions in 2020: 7. Number of federal executions in 2020: 13. If a federal government is executing almost double the number of people all the other states are put together, I'm hardly likely to be supporting a president who's at the helm, am I? Especially given the fact that that president then breaks with time honoured tradition of not executing people in transition, instead speeds it up to finish the job, but that is the character of the man: bitter to the extent of the grotesque.

No, I did understand all that about Obamacare, which is why I have said elsewhere that it wasn't the perfect solution by a long shot. And I agree that because there's some mystical media cult worship of the Almighty Obama going on, the flaws in the system are far less publicised than its strengths. What it did do though, is give access to healthcare to people who didn't have it previously. And I wouldn't have taken issue with cancelling it IF he'd replaced it with something - anything - that had a similar effect.  I might feel differently about it if I was part of Middle America. But then I wouldn't feel differently about it if I was one who benefitted from it...

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