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25 years ago today......


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When I was one I had just begun,
When I was two, I was nearly new,
When I was three, I hardly me,
When I was four, I was not much more, 
When I was five, I was just alive,
But now I am six and clever as clever,
So I think I'll be six now for ever and ever...

Dunblane - 25 years

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30 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Makes me sick to the core. I know other people have unhappiness about the consequences but that was such a disgusting event I have no qualms to lose some freedom for the safety of our children. 

Yes, it was horrible, but it’s naive to believe that ‘losing some freedom’ will ensure the safety of any children. 
I wasn’t guilty of shooting anyone, and resented entirely having my private property seized for the sake of political expediency. I still do. 

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3 minutes ago, Scully said:

it’s naive to believe that ‘losing some freedom’ will ensure the safety of any children. 

What is the number of school shootings in the UK this those laws were introduced?

America has the most freedom for gun ownership and we all know is a complete disgrace for gun safety, generally but also in schools. I am confident that lives have been saved in the UK. 

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I still do. 

Blame Thomas Hamilton not the politicians. 

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This was a terrible day, and I remember being in Scone Palace being given a talk by BASC, and the police, at the time of events,   and  the police 

 asked anyone from the Dunblane area to leave, and go home.

I was not a pistol shooter, but followed the events and follow up with great interest. The fact TH was issued with 4 handguns, on telling the police he was a member of the local pistol club, and it was not checked on his application, and after the enquiry, the 100 year ban on the disclosure of information , makes the whole thing stink. 

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13 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

What is the number of school shootings in the UK this those laws were introduced?

America has the most freedom for gun ownership and we all know is a complete disgrace for gun safety, generally but also in schools. I am confident that lives have been saved in the UK. 

Blame Thomas Hamilton not the politicians. 

If the had only done the right thing after Cumbria and banned double barrel shotguns and .22 bolt actions they might have prevented the next one.

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11 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

What is the number of school shootings in the UK this those laws were introduced?

America has the most freedom for gun ownership and we all know is a complete disgrace for gun safety, generally but also in schools. I am confident that lives have been saved in the UK. 

Blame Thomas Hamilton not the politicians. 

Since which laws were introduced? Handguns haven’t been banned, if that’s what you’re implying, far from it. 

I blame both Hamilton for the shootings and the politicians for their lack of guts; the Conservatives for bowing to public pressure and Blair’s Labour capitalising on the shootings for political expediency. 
You can’t possibly know that lives have been saved, anymore than I can say they haven’t, but if banning guns was the answer, then we wouldn’t have any. 

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I remember it very well because the ordinary coppers on the beat making enquiries into if this specimen should have his license renewed said that he shouldn't but a senior officer is reported as saying he knew the person better than most and signed it off. He was even a loner at the range and not liked.  We will never know but I still think it could have been avoided.

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26 minutes ago, Scully said:

Since which laws were introduced? Handguns haven’t been banned, if that’s what you’re implying, far from it

Don't be so pedantic. Handguns have been banned in mainland UK. Sure, there's exemptions but by and large they are banned for the vast majority of people. I know you will come back and say you can get black powder handguns, long barrel pistols, mag restricted handguns etc but handguns as we used to use are no longer available to the vast majority of shooters. Just like semi automatic rifles were banned after Hungerford. The only exemption being .22 rimfire.

What happened at Dunblane was horrific and the law change after was understandable. Unliked by shooters but after what happened there was never going to be anything else. 

Personally, I think its bad taste for anyone to use a thread started to remember the atrocity and the victims to debate the rights or wrongs of gun control. 

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The reality is that the private ownership of handguns after about 1946 could never be justified in the UK. That was the year, or thereabouts, when self-defence or defence of property ceased to be acceptable as "good reason" to be granted an FAC to acquire one or for an FAC to be renewed to continue to possess one. 

I also had to surrender my pistols following the Tory Government ban enacted in 1996. Just as I had had to surrender my twenty-inch barrel Winchester Model 1897 after a previous Tory Government ban in 1988 on those and centrefire self loading rifles.

Yes I resented it both times. And last week on 9 March I had to surrender more items of my lawfully owned private property after yet another Tory Government ban...this time on "offensive weapons". In fact there seems to be a connecting thread here. 

But when self defence was removed as a valid "good reason" the question then was always one day going to be put. In fact it is surprising it took so long. It is why is it needed to possess a weapon capable of killing a man simply to make holes in a paper target?

As stalkers we need the rifles that we have. As vermin shooters also. But I fear that the private ownership of both centrefire and rimfire repeating rifles will face a perilous future and indeed with the latest...Tory Government...consultation self-loading rimfire rifles may be in peril sooner than we may think.

The lesson to my mind is clear and consistent. Never trust a Tory Government Home Secretary when it comes to controls on what we can and cannot do or what we can and cannot own for they seem to have a unpleasant, authoritarian and autocratic disposition to view the United Kingdom as if it were Britain's last colony.

Edited by enfieldspares
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4 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

 

Personally, I think its bad taste for anyone to use a thread started to remember the atrocity and the victims to debate the rights or wrongs of gun control. 

although a tragedy it’s never bad taste to discover the truth thanks to this thread people now know th only had a firearm thanks to a senior police officers failure scape goats are no comfort to victims they want the guilty found 

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18 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

Don't be so pedantic. Handguns have been banned in mainland UK. Sure, there's exemptions but by and large they are banned for the vast majority of people. I know you will come back and say you can get black powder handguns, long barrel pistols, mag restricted handguns etc but handguns as we used to use are no longer available to the vast majority of shooters. Just like semi automatic rifles were banned after Hungerford. The only exemption being .22 rimfire.

What happened at Dunblane was horrific and the law change after was understandable. Unliked by shooters but after what happened there was never going to be anything else. 

Personally, I think its bad taste for anyone to use a thread started to remember the atrocity and the victims to debate the rights or wrongs of gun control. 

Handguns are widely available  to anyone who can provide good reason to possess, just as many other firearms are, nothing to do with pedantry at all. There is absolutely nothing preventing a legitimate gun owner from walking into a school on Monday and creating havoc with a firearm. Like I said, if banning guns was the answer to a problem, then we wouldn’t have any. 
Whatever the reason for starting the thread, once started it was only ever going to have one outcome when someone posts ridiculous comments such as losing some freedom is worth it ‘for the safety of our children.’ It’s in the same vein as that asinine ‘if it saves just one life’ comment! Please, we’re gun owning adults, not woolly brained idealists! 

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Fair enough but I think if anyone wants to debate gun control or similar, a new thread should be started and I will happily contribute. 

This thread should be left to commemorate the tragedy that occurred without being clouded by arguments of the rights or wrongs of law changes after. 

 

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6 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

Fair enough but I think if anyone wants to debate gun control or similar, a new thread should be started and I will happily contribute. 

This thread should be left to commemorate the tragedy that occurred without being clouded by arguments of the rights or wrongs of law changes after. 

 

agreed

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Thread on gun laws past and present should be had elsewhere. There are parents out there that sent there kids off to school 25 years ago and they didn’t come home. Some teachers as well if I remember correctly. 
 

The gun does not take a life the operator of the gun takes a life. Dunblane should not have happened but it did so unfortunately what ever your political perspective is steps had to be taken to reduce the risks of this happening again. 

Agriv8 

 

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3 hours ago, Fuddster said:

I remember this as being one of the saddest days of my life.

f.

remember as if  it happened  yesterday a tragedy        god rest their tiny souls    i have no words  

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12 hours ago, Scully said:

Handguns are widely available  to anyone who can provide good reason to possess, just as many other firearms are, nothing to do with pedantry at all. There is absolutely nothing preventing a legitimate gun owner from walking into a school on Monday and creating havoc with a firearm. Like I said, if banning guns was the answer to a problem, then we wouldn’t have any. 
Whatever the reason for starting the thread, once started it was only ever going to have one outcome when someone posts ridiculous comments such as losing some freedom is worth it ‘for the safety of our children.’ It’s in the same vein as that asinine ‘if it saves just one life’ comment! Please, we’re gun owning adults, not woolly brained idealists! 

you can buy a hand gun in coventry inc bullets for less than £100  or hire one inc bullets for a weekend    for £40   cap a dealer            but cant get one on licence          ok    maybe   humane  dispatch        more illegitimate guns  in coventry than ever held on a licence                drug dealers      sawn offs     down to 12  yrl olds      fatal stabbings     drugs guns   rife           no  licence  for the stolen car     dont give a **** who they kill at 16 teen  jumping a red lite pedestrian   crossing               a lock is only for law abiding people    a licence the same                                   scum get a slap  asbo  a larf   the law abiding  suffer   all day          rant over                       

Edited by Saltings
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My late wife and I , had a friend that lost a grandchild at Dunblane. No words could ever describe the pain that it caused the family. My heart still breaks for the victims , and their families, whenever I think about that sad day.

As a gun owner , I still feel a sense of shame that someone from the shooting community,  could have committed such a terrible act.

Edited by mel b3
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1 hour ago, Scully said:

Indeed. That was never in dispute. 

Agree 👍

35 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

As a gun owner , I still feel a sense of shame that someone from the shooting community,  could have committed such a terrible act.

Agree 😔

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