Dazv Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) Hi guys this forum has been a fantastic source of information over the last few years so I'm after picking some brains again! so about 2 years ago I applied for my fac hoping at a minimum to be granted a .22lr. I was told due to a lack of rifle shooting experience it would be best to withdraw my application until I gained more experience. I've tried very hard to get some trigger time but it has proven very difficult to find the opportunities to go out shooting. I was able to put 3 rounds through a chaps .243 but if that's all, If I offer that to my feo I'll just get turned down again. Any advice on other ways to gain the tigger time needed or for that matter how much shooting/ rounds would be acceptable to the police? I've got permission on a couple different farms and I shoot a fair few rabbits with shotguns but would love to be able to switch over to a .22lr and after time apply for a .243 for some stalking. I'm in the Newbury reading oxford area if anyone can offer any advice. Thanks so much in advance guys Darren Edited March 26, 2021 by Dazv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Dazv said: Hi guys this forum has been a fantastic source of information over the last few years so I'm after picking some brains again! so about 2 years ago I applied for my fac hoping at a minimum to be granted a .22lr. I was told due to a lack of rifle shooting experience it would be best to withdraw my application until I gained more experience. I've tried very hard to get some trigger time but it has proven very difficult to find the opportunities to go out shooting. I was able to put 3 rounds through a chaps .243 but if that's all, If I offer that to my feo I'll just get turned down again. Any advice on other ways to gain the tigger time needed or for that matter how much shooting/ rounds would be acceptable to the police? I've got permission on a couple different farms and I shoot a fair few rabbits with shotguns but would love to be able to switch over to a .22lr and after time apply for a .243 for some stalking. I'm in the Newbury reading oxford area if anyone can offer any advice. Thanks so much in advance guys Darren That's strange, because a friend of mine applied for a .22LR and was granted one, provided he had a mentor with him.(me) After accompanying him quite a few times, I notified the police that in my opinion, he was safe and competent to go out of his own. This was accepted. I know different police forces have different rules! It's a pity you weren't nearer, as you would be more than welcome to accompany me. Edited March 26, 2021 by steve_b_wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, steve_b_wales said: That's strange, because a friend of mine applied for a .22LR and was granted one, provided he had a mentor with him.(me) After accompanying him quite a few times, I notified the police that in my opinion, he was safe and competent to go out of his own. This was accepted. I know different police forces have different rules! It's a pity you weren't nearer, as you would be more than welcome to accompany me. Yep, when I applied for my FAC I just put a letter together outlining my involvement in shooting over a number of years and the land I had permission on, I did mention I had been out a few times with a local keeper shooting rabbits with a 22lr and was granted with no problems, I also got my ticket opened after 8 months with no problems, I come under West Midlands, Staffordshire force, think its a case of another force making their own rules up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, Dazv said: Hi guys this forum has been a fantastic source of information over the last few years so I'm after picking some brains again! so about 2 years ago I applied for my fac hoping at a minimum to be granted a .22lr. I was told due to a lack of rifle shooting experience it would be best to withdraw my application until I gained more experience. I've tried very hard to get some trigger time but it has proven very difficult to find the opportunities to go out shooting. I was able to put 3 rounds through a chaps .243 but if that's all, If I offer that to my feo I'll just get turned down again. Any advice on other ways to gain the tigger time needed or for that matter how much shooting/ rounds would be acceptable to the police? I've got permission on a couple different farms and I shoot a fair few rabbits with shotguns but would love to be able to switch over to a .22lr and after time apply for a .243 for some stalking. I'm in the Newbury reading oxford area if anyone can offer any advice. Thanks so much in advance guys Darren Where are you based Darren ? . If you're in the West Midlands, you're more than welcome to tag along with me . I'm sure other pw members would be happy to take you out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 1 minute ago, mel b3 said: Where are you based Darren ? . If you're in the West Midlands, you're more than welcome to tag along with me . I'm sure other pw members would be happy to take you out too. Newbury/Reading/Oxford area Mel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Just now, steve_b_wales said: Newbury/Reading/Oxford area Mel. That's a bit of a trek unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Maybe change your application to fac air ? Do you do any sub 12 airgun shooting ? As this maybe the way to show some experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazv Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Hi guys thanks so much for the speedy replies and you all being so generous! Such a shames you guys aren't closer Iam more than willing to travel but oviously wouldn't want to put anyone out. How much "experience" do you guys think they might accecpt? Again thanks for the advice and help this forum is filled with great chaps! 2 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: Maybe change your application to fac air ? Do you do any sub 12 airgun shooting ? As this maybe the way to show some experience Yep done a huge amount of sub 12ftlbs air rifle shooting which I told my feo. The fac is an option but I would like to make to move to "real" firearms ideally and as rewarding as my job is it doesn't pay huge amounts so getting set up with a decent fac air setup will be slightly out of budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 you mention that you put some rounds through a .243, can you not ask the same guy to take you out a few times, if that's not possible do you know anyone else with a FAC? How many years have you held a SGC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazv Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, old'un said: you mention that you put some rounds through a .243, can you not ask the same guy to take you out a few times, if that's not possible do you know anyone else with a FAC? How many years have you held a SGC? That guys has since lost the land he could take me out on and nope I don't know anyone else unfortunately. I must have had my sgc for 4 years now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 What a ludicrous chicken and egg situation your feo has put you in. He gets a feather in his cap for keeping gun numbers down which is not his job. As soon as restrictions allow take advantage of the offers, you could also come over to Norfolk if you like for an intensive weekend of firing several firearms calibres and talking safety on an area that will look as flat as a billiard table compared to your area. Once you have the knowledge regarding safe shots/backstops, hazard awareness and be able to mention in the right place the use of high seats there is absolutely no reason why you should not apply for all the calibres you want. I would start with .22, .17hmr and your .243 as there is not much you cannot do with those 3. If you have reds to shoot then swap the 243 for a 308. I know there are lots of other lovely calibres but it sounds like you have the sort of feo that you need to stick with what he might understand. You can add in fac air as Stu suggested if you have some rats to take care of. With 2 permissions you have perfectly good reason to have firearms. Calibre is completely irrelevant to whether you are a safe shot or not hence do not be afraid to apply for all that you need. Your already good safety record with your shotguns has shown you to be a responsible person so in terms of experience even a day out with someone experienced will teach you what is safe and what is not. Any reticence on the part of the feo then challenge them to come out on site with you so that you can explain face to face what you need to do, where, with which calibre, pointing out safe backstops, public footpaths, dead ground etc. He has to have good cause to refuse you which he will not have after a day or two out with the lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 with reason for fac ground for fac and clearly safe for fac reapply and make it clear to your feo a second refusal will see it taken up with the chief constable far to many people wear this sort of rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, clangerman said: with reason for fac ground for fac and clearly safe for fac reapply and make it clear to your feo a second refusal will see it taken up with the chief constable far to many people wear this sort of rubbish I agree. Don't feel afraid to challenge the police. Are you a member of BASC? as they may be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazv Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Guys thanks, thanks so much for all the support i didn't expect this! I did think it was a little unfair of the feo to turn me down and glad you all think so too! 243deer I might have to take you up on your offer I'll pm you to see if it's doable. This has been 2 years of stress and i now feel so optimistic about the situation. Much appreciated any more tips keep them coming! Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 1 hour ago, 243deer said: What a ludicrous chicken and egg situation your feo has put you in. He gets a feather in his cap for keeping gun numbers down which is not his job. As soon as restrictions allow take advantage of the offers, you could also come over to Norfolk if you like for an intensive weekend of firing several firearms calibres and talking safety on an area that will look as flat as a billiard table compared to your area. Once you have the knowledge regarding safe shots/backstops, hazard awareness and be able to mention in the right place the use of high seats there is absolutely no reason why you should not apply for all the calibres you want. I would start with .22, .17hmr and your .243 as there is not much you cannot do with those 3. If you have reds to shoot then swap the 243 for a 308. I know there are lots of other lovely calibres but it sounds like you have the sort of feo that you need to stick with what he might understand. You can add in fac air as Stu suggested if you have some rats to take care of. With 2 permissions you have perfectly good reason to have firearms. Calibre is completely irrelevant to whether you are a safe shot or not hence do not be afraid to apply for all that you need. Your already good safety record with your shotguns has shown you to be a responsible person so in terms of experience even a day out with someone experienced will teach you what is safe and what is not. Any reticence on the part of the feo then challenge them to come out on site with you so that you can explain face to face what you need to do, where, with which calibre, pointing out safe backstops, public footpaths, dead ground etc. He has to have good cause to refuse you which he will not have after a day or two out with the lads. Good post. Agree entirely. He’s put the OP in a catch 22 position, and is taking the pee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazv Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Just spoke to 243deer and once lockdown and restrictions allow I'm going to travel up and spend some time shooting in norlfok can't thank you enough mate! Eveyone thanks for all the advice and help I've been trying for 2 years with no joy and in a matter of hours with all your help I've got a way forward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Get the land, tell them you have good reason, and have loads of experience with shotgun and air rifle. Id then give them a massive list of all the times I went out shooting like a diary. If they say no tell them you’ve waited long enough and evidenced your experience so what’s their problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Doesn't time on a shooting range count as experience? /M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazv Posted March 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 I'm hoping after a weekend with 243deer they won't have a leg to stand on. I get that they have to be carful of who they grant fac's to but it's just frustrating as I have valid reasons and know how serous I take firearm safety but I guess they don't know that. Anyway I seem to have a way forward so you never know in a years time I might be lucky enough to be in a position to take my first deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Nuke said: Doesn't time on a shooting range count as experience? /M Yes and no. Ranges are so oversubscribed in this country that you can’t really join without an FAC anyway. It’s more complicated than that, but essentially it’s just another avenue that would probably be a waste of time to pursue unless the op wants to take up competition club shooting too. Chicken/egg. Hence the popularity of licence-free <12 ft.lb / 16.26 j air rifles over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 On 26/03/2021 at 13:52, 243deer said: What a ludicrous chicken and egg situation your feo has put you in. He gets a feather in his cap for keeping gun numbers down which is not his job. With 2 permissions you have perfectly good reason to have firearms. Calibre is completely irrelevant to whether you are a safe shot or not hence do not be afraid to apply for all that you need. Your already good safety record with your shotguns has shown you to be a responsible person so in terms of experience even a day out with someone experienced will teach you what is safe and what is not. Any reticence on the part of the feo then challenge them to come out on site with you so that you can explain face to face what you need to do, where, with which calibre, pointing out safe backstops, public footpaths, dead ground etc. He has to have good cause to refuse you which he will not have after a day or two out with the lads. ^^^^^^^ This. Unless you have given your feo a reason to feel that you are clueless then this should be a perfe3ct starting point. No need for mentor's now under HO guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 I have done this mentoring previousley for a local chap, all you need to do is spend a few hours with a .22lr and it's owner walking aroind a bit of land. The mentor then writes a "report" to say that you have been witnessed and judged be safe and responsible with a .22lr and that you were seen to be cautious regarding backdrop and safe range, ricochet possibilities etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 If you want to pm me when you are available and I will spend a day with you on my perm with a .22lr then write a report, I'm just outside MK, like I said, I've done this before and I believe that new shooters should be given help, cannot guarantee that it will get you your FAC but it certainly worked last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 Hello, if you are with TVP I had to shoot with a mentor quite a few times to get my FAC 22 L/R , a few hours or a day did not bode well with the FEO, my friend also in TVP area has to find a mentor for a 22.25 before being granted, and shoots a HMR, that is the way TVP are now looking at applications so it's the only way as I see it to follow the FEOs instructions,, I am not far from Newbury and have a open ticket, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 6, 2021 Report Share Posted April 6, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, if you are with TVP I had to shoot with a mentor quite a few times to get my FAC 22 L/R , a few hours or a day did not bode well with the FEO, my friend also in TVP area has to find a mentor for a 22.25 before being granted, and shoots a HMR, that is the way TVP are now looking at applications so it's the only way as I see it to follow the FEOs instructions, then it depends how much land you have permission for, more so a 243, Hello, it might take a while on this so I would suggest you get a air rifle for rabbit and vermin shooting for your permissions, as happens I am not far from Newbury and have an open ticket, cheers Edited April 6, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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