Pointing, jointing, grouting?

[mgsontour]

I'm unsure what to buy as the marketplace is flooded and complicated with too much choice.

I want to fill in the gaps of a recently laid crazy paving patio, gaps are between 10 to 30 mm wide and about 30mm deep.

Do pointing, jointing and grouting products not all do the same job or is there a clear winner when it comes to cost, ease of use and longevity?

Some advice please 

Thanks everyone

[TIGHTCHOKE]

We used to mix sand and cement dry and brush in to the gaps.

Water was then lightly hosed across the patio to allow the mixture to moisten and set.

[Yellow Bear]

An off the wall idea is to brush in fine soil and plant with camomile or thyme.

[mgsontour]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

An off the wall idea is to brush in fine soil and plant with camomile or thyme.

Cheers, didn't expect that reply, will peruse over a beer

[mgsontour]

25 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

We used to mix sand and cement dry and brush in to the gaps.

Water was then lightly hosed across the patio to allow the mixture to moisten and set.

What ratio would the sand : cement be?

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

We used to mix sand and cement dry and brush in to the gaps.

Water was then lightly hosed across the patio to allow the mixture to moisten and set.

Hello, as above but buy some ready mix to keep the color true , depends on the finish you want , rough or smooth, smooth just use a pointing trowel but take the point off and round off keeping a slight bevel, 

Edited April 1, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I think we used 3 sand to 1 cement.

[JKD]

Brushing in any product/material will not work with the size of joints in your crazy paving. The only way is to physically point it, using building sand/cement at a ratio of 3:1 [don't mix it up too wet ! ] , with a gauging trowel and a smaller pointing trowel for the fiddly bits. Dampen the area before pointing 😉

This is the most boring and knee/back-aching thing to do,,,, don't ask me how I know 😣

[39TDS]

Haven't done it myself but a few folk have said it is much easier to get the mortar in using those big icing syringes made for the job.

[JKD]

3 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

Haven't done it myself but a few folk have said it is much easier to get the mortar in using those big icing syringes made for the job.

These are good for narrow/shallow joints as in brickwork and square paving etc. The size of the joints described in the OP are quite large. You'd be spending more time filling those tubes than actually pointing 🙁

BTW,,,, When laying crazy paving I leave a shallow joint of around 12mm. Much less time spent on the knees 🙂

[Ian willetts]

Hi I would put a bit of sharp sand in the mix as the yellow and cement isn’t very strong where with the sharp it is almost like a fine concrete 2yellow1sharp 1cement hope this helps 

[JKD]

1 hour ago, Ian willetts said:

Hi I would put a bit of sharp sand in the mix as the yellow and cement isn’t very strong where with the sharp it is almost like a fine concrete 2yellow1sharp 1cement hope this helps 

I personally only use building sand for the pointing, but if a certain look is required, or to match some existing pointing, a fine sharp sand could be used due to the lower grit content 🙂

[mgsontour]

On 01/04/2021 at 18:43, Yellow Bear said:

An off the wall idea is to brush in fine soil and plant with camomile or thyme.

Thought about it over a beer and again today and recon the idea is solid and worthy but the area of my patio is a cold shaded area I've made because our gardens are sun traps and get very hot in the height of summer so we ( and the dogs ) can cool off.

I'll remember the idea though for another area/project I do

Thanks YB

[mgsontour]

11 hours ago, JKD said:

These are good for narrow/shallow joints as in brickwork and square paving etc. The size of the joints described in the OP are quite large. You'd be spending more time filling those tubes than actually pointing 🙁

BTW,,,, When laying crazy paving I leave a shallow joint of around 12mm. Much less time spent on the knees 🙂

On the back of your comments, can you please tell me how to change the size of my large joints to your recommended 12mm to avoid unnecessary time on my knees? Cheers pal

[JKD]

19 minutes ago, mgsontour said:

On the back of your comments, can you please tell me how to change the size of my large joints to your recommended 12mm to avoid unnecessary time on my knees? Cheers pal

Unfortunately, it should have been done whilst laying the paving. But there may be a solution,,,, if you mix up some sharp sand and cement, ratio 3:1, DON'T add water, but moisten in the joints only, so the surface is dry as possible [the joints should stay damp] then brush this mix in, up to the required depth. This will need compressing slightly, but not smoothed [as it should be rough], so some time "on your knees" is necessary 😣 but it will save time later. Then the next day it can be pointed as I said before 😉

Edit,,,, might be best to just bite the bullet and point it as I've suggested, without the extra filling. Probably the best way really 😏

Pointing crazy really is an awful job to do, because all the joints aren't uniform in size. I actually turn down crazy paving jobs and have done for the last 10-15 years 😅

Edited April 2, 2021 by JKD

[mgsontour]

12 hours ago, JKD said:

Unfortunately, it should have been done whilst laying the paving. But there may be a solution,,,, if you mix up some sharp sand and cement, ratio 3:1, DON'T add water, but moisten in the joints only, so the surface is dry as possible [the joints should stay damp] then brush this mix in, up to the required depth. This will need compressing slightly, but not smoothed [as it should be rough], so some time "on your knees" is necessary 😣 but it will save time later. Then the next day it can be pointed as I said before 😉

Edit,,,, might be best to just bite the bullet and point it as I've suggested, without the extra filling. Probably the best way really 😏

Pointing crazy really is an awful job to do, because all the joints aren't uniform in size. I actually turn down crazy paving jobs and have done for the last 10-15 years 😅

Thanks, you have obviously done a bit in your time

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, it's called crazy paving for a reason, not like a uniform paved area, just buy some ready mix and cut down a pointing trowel, if the area is big just mix enough for a few hours, buy some knee pads from the £ shop, there must be some videos on U tube, and to give you an idea of a bad job, a few years ago Abingdon Town council got a contractor to repave the pavements around the main high street, they used sharp sand and not one bag of cement and never finished the gaps with binding mortar, it took 5 weeks and been down 5 years , I now call it the Rockery !!!!, 

[JKD]

1 hour ago, mgsontour said:

Thanks, you have obviously done a bit in your time

Great deduction 😅 Yes, I have done LOTS of paving, of all types and styles. And it's ALL bad on the knees and back 😣😣😣 My first paving 'job' was laying a patio for my parents. 30sq metres of riven buff ordinary stuff,,,, this was in 1982,,,, it's still there, despite a couple of staggered joints opening up a couple of mm 😊 Small retaining walls and steps are still good too.

Just a point on any brush-in product,,,, there is a maximum size of joint this will work in, as the larger the joint, the more shrinkage there'll be of the product. This also counts on the wetness [moisture content] in any pointing mortar.... the wetter it is, the more shrinkage there will be 😉 Pointing mortar should be just usable, more like a soft paste, if that makes sense 😉 And always 3:1 or 4:1 soft sand:cement, or it will break down very quickly.

There are probably tutorials on YouTube covering all of this.

Good luck 👍

Edited April 3, 2021 by JKD

[mgsontour]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:25, JKD said:

Great deduction 😅 Yes, I have done LOTS of paving, of all types and styles. And it's ALL bad on the knees and back 😣😣😣 My first paving 'job' was laying a patio for my parents. 30sq metres of riven buff ordinary stuff,,,, this was in 1982,,,, it's still there, despite a couple of staggered joints opening up a couple of mm 😊 Small retaining walls and steps are still good too.

Just a point on any brush-in product,,,, there is a maximum size of joint this will work in, as the larger the joint, the more shrinkage there'll be of the product. This also counts on the wetness [moisture content] in any pointing mortar.... the wetter it is, the more shrinkage there will be 😉 Pointing mortar should be just usable, more like a soft paste, if that makes sense 😉 And always 3:1 or 4:1 soft sand:cement, or it will break down very quickly.

There are probably tutorials on YouTube covering all of this.

Good luck 👍

Thank you very much and makes sense; really appreciated

On 03/04/2021 at 08:00, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, it's called crazy paving for a reason, not like a uniform paved area, just buy some ready mix and cut down a pointing trowel, if the area is big just mix enough for a few hours, buy some knee pads from the £ shop, there must be some videos on U tube, and to give you an idea of a bad job, a few years ago Abingdon Town council got a contractor to repave the pavements around the main high street, they used sharp sand and not one bag of cement and never finished the gaps with binding mortar, it took 5 weeks and been down 5 years , I now call it the Rockery !!!!, 

That must be worth a look and bet the contractor didn't get much further work

[ditchman]

On 01/04/2021 at 18:43, Yellow Bear said:

An off the wall idea is to brush in fine soil and plant with camomile or thyme.

like that............for the low traffic areas an a good grout for the traffic areas..

[JKD]

44 minutes ago, mgsontour said:

Thank you very much and makes sense; really appreciated

No problem, glad to help 👍

[mgsontour]

6 hours ago, JKD said:

No problem, glad to help 👍

I'm always happy to help people too as are so many on this site 

[oldypigeonpopper]

7 hours ago, mgsontour said:

Thank you very much and makes sense; really appreciated

That must be worth a look and bet the contractor didn't get much further work

Hello, not so sure on that from what I know on council employees who give out these contracts,