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The law should protect livestock, the owners should have to pay vets fees and a big fine.

plus all the hoops and potential problems before a Dog can be shot should be closed.

Dogs attacking livestock should be shot asap if safe to do so and if not practical Dog should be destroyed at the earliest opportunity  

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Hello, I would not say that was a hare coursers dog as the collar looks expensive, getting that close to take a photo I would have let both barrels off, or they should  post the photo in the local newspaper to find the owner, 

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I'm guessing the first picture was a passer by not any farmer.

When I worked there in 72 the farmer had a 12 bore in his landy all the time.

Given the limited write up and knowing the ground, I suspect it would have not been safe or even in range to shoot. It's a very popular walking and climbing area with much dead ground and all downhill to a road and wooded area. 

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This is the cruelty Carrie the Prime Minisrers 'wife' ???? should be looking into not the dairy cow industry.  Don't hold your breath.  I will certainly not be voting tory whilst she is sitting in No. 10.

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We have a couple of footpaths run through our small piece of grazing land and get all sorts of idiots mixed in with the majority of decent folk who use them.

 

Amongst other things we have been asked to keep the sheep muck of the footpaths as they don’t like walking through it. We had one lady tell us how she likes to let her greyhounds run round the fields as she can’t control them but in here they can’t escape from her and they wouldn’t hurt the sheep even if they did catch them! Recently another greyhound owner refused to call her dog back and put a lead on it as there is a right to roam and she could do what she liked in the countryside. 

 

The incidents with the dogs were reported to the police.They person who complained about sheep muck on the path was advised to buy wellies.

 

The last thing I want to do is shoot someone’s dog but I have a duty of care to my livestock and have told all of the owners that it will be their fault if their dog gets shot.

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1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

This is the cruelty Carrie the Prime Minisrers 'wife' ???? should be looking into not the dairy cow industry.  Don't hold your breath.  I will certainly not be voting tory whilst she is sitting in No. 10.

Agree. 

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Without doing any research on the legal issues current (!) to this type of case, I was brought up on a dairy/sheep farm in mid-Wales in the 60's.  We, and neighbours, had considerable problems with a pack of dogs from the local village(s) which came up to our hill farms and chased and killed/ate sheep.

The Law at that time was that the farmer needed to post a statement of intention to kill these dogs in the local paper and local Post Office, and that was all that was necessary.  

I went out a few times at night with my brother, usually it was windy and we could hear these dogs barking and as you got closer, growling / fighting over a kill.  This used to happen maybe twice a month, mostly in lambing season.  A few dogs were shot and buried - but, for a teenager, it was a scary and not very pleasant experience/fact of life.

I guess the problem must be 10x more difficult in these times.

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In the early ‘90’s a stalking friend of mine was asked by the owner of one of his permissions to shoot an Alsatian which had twice killed a sheep. My friend did not own a shotgun so he contacted his FLM requesting an urgent change of conditions on his FAC to allow the shooting of dogs worrying livestock. The change was granted PDQ and came back authorising use of the .243 for dogs. 

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28 minutes ago, London Best said:

In the early ‘90’s a stalking friend of mine was asked by the owner of one of his permissions to shoot an Alsatian which had twice killed a sheep. My friend did not own a shotgun so he contacted his FLM requesting an urgent change of conditions on his FAC to allow the shooting of dogs worrying livestock. The change was granted PDQ and came back authorising use of the .243 for dogs. 

I had a similar thing. I was asked to dispatch 19 sheep that had been savaged by two Bull Mastifs. After dispatching the sheep with my 12g the dogs made off. 
Quick call to the FEO and they emailed me the variation within the hour. I explained that I didn’t fancy getting within 12g range of a pair of wild dogs!

The variation was Canine on my 223. 
 

I now have All Lawful Quarry on all my rifles, so I am well covered.

Edited by Fisheruk
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My 2 pence. Stick with me.

Education. Sadly some people have to learn from practical experience.

I live near to a well known dog charity centre. Over the last thirty odd years we've existed alongside each other reasonably happily. They've had their noisy problem dogs, I've had impromptu clay shoots and fireworks, but by and by we get along.

Some years ago though my wife rang me in a state of panic. "There's a ewe in the lane staggering around bleeding and gargling, and I can hear the flock up the valley bawling" 

One of my routes home gives me a view across the valley at most of our fields. Looking across from my view point there were sheep strewn all over one field. I counted 11 down and the rest being chased across the lower fields towards the neighbours boundary. I could make out two dogs, one upfront clearly the aggressor and the larger one ambling along behind. 

I was home, in and out the cabinet and back in the truck going up the valley inside of 10 mins. 

Time was precious in my mind. I didn't have time for gates. At the first one I was out and over it with the .243 in a flash. Truck behind me I loaded and started to jog across the slope towards the neighbours boundary. At the crest of the field looking down to my neighbours I stopped. The flock were coming up the hedgerow of the boundary heading for the top fields. In pursuit were a brown and white spaniel and larger black dog I later found out was a Belgian Shepard. The spaniel was red with blood back past its shoulders. Now I was levelled, sighted and safety off but to this day I don't know why, but instead of taking the shot, I whistled. Loud long and clear. Both dogs stopped dead in their tracks and sat. I breathed in and bellowed "lie down" at the top of my voice, both dogs ignored my command but remained rooted to the spot. Never lowering the .243 I approached the spaniel. Scruffing it, I held it off the ground as I pulled my belt off and used it as collar come lead. The Belgian Shepard sat still as I use the rifle sling to collar him too. I marched both dogs back to the pick up and tied them in bed with rope so I could have my belt and sling back. 

I called the police first, reported I had two dogs that had been caught red handed killing sheep and that it was sheer will power not to have shot them on the spot. The switch board took my details and said someone would be with me shortly. I called the dog charity next and asked if they were missing any inmates or had anybody rung looking for two missing dogs. "Oh, X from Y valley stables is missing a couple, why have you found them?". I gave the woman a brief run down and received an absolute torrent of abuse over the fact I had them tied up and that I'd had it in my mind to shoot them. She'd be right over to take them into her safe custody as soon as she'd notified the owners. I politely reminded her I was still armed still angry and the law was on my side. The dogs would stay with me until the owners were stood infront of me. The police arrived first, I cannot praise the chap enough, straight talking and rural savvy, and he recognised the dogs. The owners and the charity turned up shortly afterwards. The copper proceeded to berate the owners like they were puppy's themselves. Never allowing the charity to draw breath let alone speak. When he'd finished lecturing them on the countryside code and farmers rights he turned to me. "Would you be willing to drive us to the crime scene please, I think it would pay for the owners to see the damage their little angels have caused". I returned to the house and put the .243 away, returning with a .410 and box of shells. The dogs were placed in the police estate car, myself the charity lady and the owners wife rode inside the truck the copper and the husband rode in the bed and we set off for the fields. The charity woman used the segregation to start her abuse again but I remained silent and seething as we approached the field. At the gate we all dismounted and made our way towards the carnage. The party were all silent. The first half dozen or so were killed outright or had bled out over time but as we got further across the fields we came to the stragglers. The first one had bad wounds to its legs but looked as though it may live. The next wasn't so lucky. I stood listening to her gargling through a neck wound "Do the right thing lad" the copper said behind me. I chambered the .410 and dispatched her. I can shoot vermin, I can hunt for food, but I hate euthanising animals. My father made me do it from too young an age, the first one I did was head on looking in its eyes. It still sits bad with me. I turned to look at the copper and realised the owners and charity woman had been watching. I had clean forgot about them as I'd rolled the ewe into position to get a clear brain shot. The two woman erupted in tears as the husband stood in stunned silence. The three of them stood rooted to the spot as I walked amongst the dying making the choice between life and death on my little flock. I lost 15 in total that day and another two within a week. We drove back to the farm yard in silence. The copper took the owners details and informed them I'd be billing them for loss of life and veterinary bills. The wife remained silent the husband couldn't apologize enough. They left. The charity woman came over to me, and apologized!. "I couldn't believe they'd do that. I know these dogs, they're boisterous but I never thought they were killers." 

The dog owners rang not a week later and asked me call round at my convenience to see the new measures they had put in place to ensure the dogs could not escape again. These included some serious fencing and both dogs being neutered.

The charity lady had a complete turn around of attitude. She informed that she had raised the issue with head office and that wheels were in motion now to change policy on rehoming near livestock and step up education towards controlling your dog and the consequences and legalities if you don't.

Touch wood in the last ten years we've never had another incident. I occasionally see the charity woman, she's now the manager of the facility. She always gives a nod to the day that took the rose tinting off her view of the doggy world, and to her credit my eldest girl came home from school one day telling me all about the lady across the road and the speech she'd made about dogs and the countryside. 

In the heat of the moment I wanted to shoot the lead dog, my blood was up nearly as much as his, he deserved to be shot and many would have, but I've buried enough dogs of my own. The fact that he stopped on the whistle saved his and his buddies life. 

Just my 2 pence.

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24 minutes ago, oneshot1979 said:

My 2 pence. Stick with me.

Education. Sadly some people have to learn from practical experience.

I live near to a well known dog charity centre. Over the last thirty odd years we've existed alongside each other reasonably happily. They've had their noisy problem dogs, I've had impromptu clay shoots and fireworks, but by and by we get along.

Some years ago though my wife rang me in a state of panic. "There's a ewe in the lane staggering around bleeding and gargling, and I can hear the flock up the valley bawling" 

One of my routes home gives me a view across the valley at most of our fields. Looking across from my view point there were sheep strewn all over one field. I counted 11 down and the rest being chased across the lower fields towards the neighbours boundary. I could make out two dogs, one upfront clearly the aggressor and the larger one ambling along behind. 

I was home, in and out the cabinet and back in the truck going up the valley inside of 10 mins. 

Time was precious in my mind. I didn't have time for gates. At the first one I was out and over it with the .243 in a flash. Truck behind me I loaded and started to jog across the slope towards the neighbours boundary. At the crest of the field looking down to my neighbours I stopped. The flock were coming up the hedgerow of the boundary heading for the top fields. In pursuit were a brown and white spaniel and larger black dog I later found out was a Belgian Shepard. The spaniel was red with blood back past its shoulders. Now I was levelled, sighted and safety off but to this day I don't know why, but instead of taking the shot, I whistled. Loud long and clear. Both dogs stopped dead in their tracks and sat. I breathed in and bellowed "lie down" at the top of my voice, both dogs ignored my command but remained rooted to the spot. Never lowering the .243 I approached the spaniel. Scruffing it, I held it off the ground as I pulled my belt off and used it as collar come lead. The Belgian Shepard sat still as I use the rifle sling to collar him too. I marched both dogs back to the pick up and tied them in bed with rope so I could have my belt and sling back. 

I called the police first, reported I had two dogs that had been caught red handed killing sheep and that it was sheer will power not to have shot them on the spot. The switch board took my details and said someone would be with me shortly. I called the dog charity next and asked if they were missing any inmates or had anybody rung looking for two missing dogs. "Oh, X from Y valley stables is missing a couple, why have you found them?". I gave the woman a brief run down and received an absolute torrent of abuse over the fact I had them tied up and that I'd had it in my mind to shoot them. She'd be right over to take them into her safe custody as soon as she'd notified the owners. I politely reminded her I was still armed still angry and the law was on my side. The dogs would stay with me until the owners were stood infront of me. The police arrived first, I cannot praise the chap enough, straight talking and rural savvy, and he recognised the dogs. The owners and the charity turned up shortly afterwards. The copper proceeded to berate the owners like they were puppy's themselves. Never allowing the charity to draw breath let alone speak. When he'd finished lecturing them on the countryside code and farmers rights he turned to me. "Would you be willing to drive us to the crime scene please, I think it would pay for the owners to see the damage their little angels have caused". I returned to the house and put the .243 away, returning with a .410 and box of shells. The dogs were placed in the police estate car, myself the charity lady and the owners wife rode inside the truck the copper and the husband rode in the bed and we set off for the fields. The charity woman used the segregation to start her abuse again but I remained silent and seething as we approached the field. At the gate we all dismounted and made our way towards the carnage. The party were all silent. The first half dozen or so were killed outright or had bled out over time but as we got further across the fields we came to the stragglers. The first one had bad wounds to its legs but looked as though it may live. The next wasn't so lucky. I stood listening to her gargling through a neck wound "Do the right thing lad" the copper said behind me. I chambered the .410 and dispatched her. I can shoot vermin, I can hunt for food, but I hate euthanising animals. My father made me do it from too young an age, the first one I did was head on looking in its eyes. It still sits bad with me. I turned to look at the copper and realised the owners and charity woman had been watching. I had clean forgot about them as I'd rolled the ewe into position to get a clear brain shot. The two woman erupted in tears as the husband stood in stunned silence. The three of them stood rooted to the spot as I walked amongst the dying making the choice between life and death on my little flock. I lost 15 in total that day and another two within a week. We drove back to the farm yard in silence. The copper took the owners details and informed them I'd be billing them for loss of life and veterinary bills. The wife remained silent the husband couldn't apologize enough. They left. The charity woman came over to me, and apologized!. "I couldn't believe they'd do that. I know these dogs, they're boisterous but I never thought they were killers." 

The dog owners rang not a week later and asked me call round at my convenience to see the new measures they had put in place to ensure the dogs could not escape again. These included some serious fencing and both dogs being neutered.

The charity lady had a complete turn around of attitude. She informed that she had raised the issue with head office and that wheels were in motion now to change policy on rehoming near livestock and step up education towards controlling your dog and the consequences and legalities if you don't.

Touch wood in the last ten years we've never had another incident. I occasionally see the charity woman, she's now the manager of the facility. She always gives a nod to the day that took the rose tinting off her view of the doggy world, and to her credit my eldest girl came home from school one day telling me all about the lady across the road and the speech she'd made about dogs and the countryside. 

In the heat of the moment I wanted to shoot the lead dog, my blood was up nearly as much as his, he deserved to be shot and many would have, but I've buried enough dogs of my own. The fact that he stopped on the whistle saved his and his buddies life. 

Just my 2 pence.

good post 👍

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9 hours ago, oneshot1979 said:

My 2 pence. Stick with me.

Education. Sadly some people have to learn from practical experience.

I live near to a well known dog charity centre. Over the last thirty odd years we've existed alongside each other reasonably happily. They've had their noisy problem dogs, I've had impromptu clay shoots and fireworks, but by and by we get along.

Some years ago though my wife rang me in a state of panic. "There's a ewe in the lane staggering around bleeding and gargling, and I can hear the flock up the valley bawling" 

One of my routes home gives me a view across the valley at most of our fields. Looking across from my view point there were sheep strewn all over one field. I counted 11 down and the rest being chased across the lower fields towards the neighbours boundary. I could make out two dogs, one upfront clearly the aggressor and the larger one ambling along behind. 

I was home, in and out the cabinet and back in the truck going up the valley inside of 10 mins. 

Time was precious in my mind. I didn't have time for gates. At the first one I was out and over it with the .243 in a flash. Truck behind me I loaded and started to jog across the slope towards the neighbours boundary. At the crest of the field looking down to my neighbours I stopped. The flock were coming up the hedgerow of the boundary heading for the top fields. In pursuit were a brown and white spaniel and larger black dog I later found out was a Belgian Shepard. The spaniel was red with blood back past its shoulders. Now I was levelled, sighted and safety off but to this day I don't know why, but instead of taking the shot, I whistled. Loud long and clear. Both dogs stopped dead in their tracks and sat. I breathed in and bellowed "lie down" at the top of my voice, both dogs ignored my command but remained rooted to the spot. Never lowering the .243 I approached the spaniel. Scruffing it, I held it off the ground as I pulled my belt off and used it as collar come lead. The Belgian Shepard sat still as I use the rifle sling to collar him too. I marched both dogs back to the pick up and tied them in bed with rope so I could have my belt and sling back. 

I called the police first, reported I had two dogs that had been caught red handed killing sheep and that it was sheer will power not to have shot them on the spot. The switch board took my details and said someone would be with me shortly. I called the dog charity next and asked if they were missing any inmates or had anybody rung looking for two missing dogs. "Oh, X from Y valley stables is missing a couple, why have you found them?". I gave the woman a brief run down and received an absolute torrent of abuse over the fact I had them tied up and that I'd had it in my mind to shoot them. She'd be right over to take them into her safe custody as soon as she'd notified the owners. I politely reminded her I was still armed still angry and the law was on my side. The dogs would stay with me until the owners were stood infront of me. The police arrived first, I cannot praise the chap enough, straight talking and rural savvy, and he recognised the dogs. The owners and the charity turned up shortly afterwards. The copper proceeded to berate the owners like they were puppy's themselves. Never allowing the charity to draw breath let alone speak. When he'd finished lecturing them on the countryside code and farmers rights he turned to me. "Would you be willing to drive us to the crime scene please, I think it would pay for the owners to see the damage their little angels have caused". I returned to the house and put the .243 away, returning with a .410 and box of shells. The dogs were placed in the police estate car, myself the charity lady and the owners wife rode inside the truck the copper and the husband rode in the bed and we set off for the fields. The charity woman used the segregation to start her abuse again but I remained silent and seething as we approached the field. At the gate we all dismounted and made our way towards the carnage. The party were all silent. The first half dozen or so were killed outright or had bled out over time but as we got further across the fields we came to the stragglers. The first one had bad wounds to its legs but looked as though it may live. The next wasn't so lucky. I stood listening to her gargling through a neck wound "Do the right thing lad" the copper said behind me. I chambered the .410 and dispatched her. I can shoot vermin, I can hunt for food, but I hate euthanising animals. My father made me do it from too young an age, the first one I did was head on looking in its eyes. It still sits bad with me. I turned to look at the copper and realised the owners and charity woman had been watching. I had clean forgot about them as I'd rolled the ewe into position to get a clear brain shot. The two woman erupted in tears as the husband stood in stunned silence. The three of them stood rooted to the spot as I walked amongst the dying making the choice between life and death on my little flock. I lost 15 in total that day and another two within a week. We drove back to the farm yard in silence. The copper took the owners details and informed them I'd be billing them for loss of life and veterinary bills. The wife remained silent the husband couldn't apologize enough. They left. The charity woman came over to me, and apologized!. "I couldn't believe they'd do that. I know these dogs, they're boisterous but I never thought they were killers." 

The dog owners rang not a week later and asked me call round at my convenience to see the new measures they had put in place to ensure the dogs could not escape again. These included some serious fencing and both dogs being neutered.

The charity lady had a complete turn around of attitude. She informed that she had raised the issue with head office and that wheels were in motion now to change policy on rehoming near livestock and step up education towards controlling your dog and the consequences and legalities if you don't.

Touch wood in the last ten years we've never had another incident. I occasionally see the charity woman, she's now the manager of the facility. She always gives a nod to the day that took the rose tinting off her view of the doggy world, and to her credit my eldest girl came home from school one day telling me all about the lady across the road and the speech she'd made about dogs and the countryside. 

In the heat of the moment I wanted to shoot the lead dog, my blood was up nearly as much as his, he deserved to be shot and many would have, but I've buried enough dogs of my own. The fact that he stopped on the whistle saved his and his buddies life. 

Just my 2 pence.

VERY good post. 
Just shows how bad it can be.

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12 hours ago, oneshot1979 said:

My 2 pence. Stick with me.

Education. Sadly some people have to learn from practical experience.

I live near to a well known dog charity centre. Over the last thirty odd years we've existed alongside each other reasonably happily. They've had their noisy problem dogs, I've had impromptu clay shoots and fireworks, but by and by we get along.

Some years ago though my wife rang me in a state of panic. "There's a ewe in the lane staggering around bleeding and gargling, and I can hear the flock up the valley bawling" 

One of my routes home gives me a view across the valley at most of our fields. Looking across from my view point there were sheep strewn all over one field. I counted 11 down and the rest being chased across the lower fields towards the neighbours boundary. I could make out two dogs, one upfront clearly the aggressor and the larger one ambling along behind. 

I was home, in and out the cabinet and back in the truck going up the valley inside of 10 mins. 

Time was precious in my mind. I didn't have time for gates. At the first one I was out and over it with the .243 in a flash. Truck behind me I loaded and started to jog across the slope towards the neighbours boundary. At the crest of the field looking down to my neighbours I stopped. The flock were coming up the hedgerow of the boundary heading for the top fields. In pursuit were a brown and white spaniel and larger black dog I later found out was a Belgian Shepard. The spaniel was red with blood back past its shoulders. Now I was levelled, sighted and safety off but to this day I don't know why, but instead of taking the shot, I whistled. Loud long and clear. Both dogs stopped dead in their tracks and sat. I breathed in and bellowed "lie down" at the top of my voice, both dogs ignored my command but remained rooted to the spot. Never lowering the .243 I approached the spaniel. Scruffing it, I held it off the ground as I pulled my belt off and used it as collar come lead. The Belgian Shepard sat still as I use the rifle sling to collar him too. I marched both dogs back to the pick up and tied them in bed with rope so I could have my belt and sling back. 

I called the police first, reported I had two dogs that had been caught red handed killing sheep and that it was sheer will power not to have shot them on the spot. The switch board took my details and said someone would be with me shortly. I called the dog charity next and asked if they were missing any inmates or had anybody rung looking for two missing dogs. "Oh, X from Y valley stables is missing a couple, why have you found them?". I gave the woman a brief run down and received an absolute torrent of abuse over the fact I had them tied up and that I'd had it in my mind to shoot them. She'd be right over to take them into her safe custody as soon as she'd notified the owners. I politely reminded her I was still armed still angry and the law was on my side. The dogs would stay with me until the owners were stood infront of me. The police arrived first, I cannot praise the chap enough, straight talking and rural savvy, and he recognised the dogs. The owners and the charity turned up shortly afterwards. The copper proceeded to berate the owners like they were puppy's themselves. Never allowing the charity to draw breath let alone speak. When he'd finished lecturing them on the countryside code and farmers rights he turned to me. "Would you be willing to drive us to the crime scene please, I think it would pay for the owners to see the damage their little angels have caused". I returned to the house and put the .243 away, returning with a .410 and box of shells. The dogs were placed in the police estate car, myself the charity lady and the owners wife rode inside the truck the copper and the husband rode in the bed and we set off for the fields. The charity woman used the segregation to start her abuse again but I remained silent and seething as we approached the field. At the gate we all dismounted and made our way towards the carnage. The party were all silent. The first half dozen or so were killed outright or had bled out over time but as we got further across the fields we came to the stragglers. The first one had bad wounds to its legs but looked as though it may live. The next wasn't so lucky. I stood listening to her gargling through a neck wound "Do the right thing lad" the copper said behind me. I chambered the .410 and dispatched her. I can shoot vermin, I can hunt for food, but I hate euthanising animals. My father made me do it from too young an age, the first one I did was head on looking in its eyes. It still sits bad with me. I turned to look at the copper and realised the owners and charity woman had been watching. I had clean forgot about them as I'd rolled the ewe into position to get a clear brain shot. The two woman erupted in tears as the husband stood in stunned silence. The three of them stood rooted to the spot as I walked amongst the dying making the choice between life and death on my little flock. I lost 15 in total that day and another two within a week. We drove back to the farm yard in silence. The copper took the owners details and informed them I'd be billing them for loss of life and veterinary bills. The wife remained silent the husband couldn't apologize enough. They left. The charity woman came over to me, and apologized!. "I couldn't believe they'd do that. I know these dogs, they're boisterous but I never thought they were killers." 

The dog owners rang not a week later and asked me call round at my convenience to see the new measures they had put in place to ensure the dogs could not escape again. These included some serious fencing and both dogs being neutered.

The charity lady had a complete turn around of attitude. She informed that she had raised the issue with head office and that wheels were in motion now to change policy on rehoming near livestock and step up education towards controlling your dog and the consequences and legalities if you don't.

Touch wood in the last ten years we've never had another incident. I occasionally see the charity woman, she's now the manager of the facility. She always gives a nod to the day that took the rose tinting off her view of the doggy world, and to her credit my eldest girl came home from school one day telling me all about the lady across the road and the speech she'd made about dogs and the countryside. 

In the heat of the moment I wanted to shoot the lead dog, my blood was up nearly as much as his, he deserved to be shot and many would have, but I've buried enough dogs of my own. The fact that he stopped on the whistle saved his and his buddies life. 

Just my 2 pence.

If only every dog owner could be made to read this, or at least watch a video of what really happens. 

Excellent post.

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Cant remember the amount of nights out ive spent with a shepherd as his flock was attacked  one time we had 10 guns out and this dog was like a ghost nobody saw it coming or going just dead sheep , its luck ran out after a couple of weeks  one gun with a policeman nailed it and we had all the proof we needed .

The same farmer had a guy that bred Saint Bernard's next to him one just walked up to the fence and grabbed a sheep the other side of the fence ,

I dont even like taking my dogs out ferreting in the spring i honestly believe there stock proof but a couple of hill sheep bursting out of cover and away  in a second ? 

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On 06/04/2021 at 00:08, oneshot1979 said:

My 2 pence. Stick with me.

Education. Sadly some people have to learn from practical experience.

I live near to a well known dog charity centre. Over the last thirty odd years we've existed alongside each other reasonably happily. They've had their noisy problem dogs, I've had impromptu clay shoots and fireworks, but by and by we get along.

Some years ago though my wife rang me in a state of panic. "There's a ewe in the lane staggering around bleeding and gargling, and I can hear the flock up the valley bawling" 

One of my routes home gives me a view across the valley at most of our fields. Looking across from my view point there were sheep strewn all over one field. I counted 11 down and the rest being chased across the lower fields towards the neighbours boundary. I could make out two dogs, one upfront clearly the aggressor and the larger one ambling along behind. 

I was home, in and out the cabinet and back in the truck going up the valley inside of 10 mins. 

Time was precious in my mind. I didn't have time for gates. At the first one I was out and over it with the .243 in a flash. Truck behind me I loaded and started to jog across the slope towards the neighbours boundary. At the crest of the field looking down to my neighbours I stopped. The flock were coming up the hedgerow of the boundary heading for the top fields. In pursuit were a brown and white spaniel and larger black dog I later found out was a Belgian Shepard. The spaniel was red with blood back past its shoulders. Now I was levelled, sighted and safety off but to this day I don't know why, but instead of taking the shot, I whistled. Loud long and clear. Both dogs stopped dead in their tracks and sat. I breathed in and bellowed "lie down" at the top of my voice, both dogs ignored my command but remained rooted to the spot. Never lowering the .243 I approached the spaniel. Scruffing it, I held it off the ground as I pulled my belt off and used it as collar come lead. The Belgian Shepard sat still as I use the rifle sling to collar him too. I marched both dogs back to the pick up and tied them in bed with rope so I could have my belt and sling back. 

I called the police first, reported I had two dogs that had been caught red handed killing sheep and that it was sheer will power not to have shot them on the spot. The switch board took my details and said someone would be with me shortly. I called the dog charity next and asked if they were missing any inmates or had anybody rung looking for two missing dogs. "Oh, X from Y valley stables is missing a couple, why have you found them?". I gave the woman a brief run down and received an absolute torrent of abuse over the fact I had them tied up and that I'd had it in my mind to shoot them. She'd be right over to take them into her safe custody as soon as she'd notified the owners. I politely reminded her I was still armed still angry and the law was on my side. The dogs would stay with me until the owners were stood infront of me. The police arrived first, I cannot praise the chap enough, straight talking and rural savvy, and he recognised the dogs. The owners and the charity turned up shortly afterwards. The copper proceeded to berate the owners like they were puppy's themselves. Never allowing the charity to draw breath let alone speak. When he'd finished lecturing them on the countryside code and farmers rights he turned to me. "Would you be willing to drive us to the crime scene please, I think it would pay for the owners to see the damage their little angels have caused". I returned to the house and put the .243 away, returning with a .410 and box of shells. The dogs were placed in the police estate car, myself the charity lady and the owners wife rode inside the truck the copper and the husband rode in the bed and we set off for the fields. The charity woman used the segregation to start her abuse again but I remained silent and seething as we approached the field. At the gate we all dismounted and made our way towards the carnage. The party were all silent. The first half dozen or so were killed outright or had bled out over time but as we got further across the fields we came to the stragglers. The first one had bad wounds to its legs but looked as though it may live. The next wasn't so lucky. I stood listening to her gargling through a neck wound "Do the right thing lad" the copper said behind me. I chambered the .410 and dispatched her. I can shoot vermin, I can hunt for food, but I hate euthanising animals. My father made me do it from too young an age, the first one I did was head on looking in its eyes. It still sits bad with me. I turned to look at the copper and realised the owners and charity woman had been watching. I had clean forgot about them as I'd rolled the ewe into position to get a clear brain shot. The two woman erupted in tears as the husband stood in stunned silence. The three of them stood rooted to the spot as I walked amongst the dying making the choice between life and death on my little flock. I lost 15 in total that day and another two within a week. We drove back to the farm yard in silence. The copper took the owners details and informed them I'd be billing them for loss of life and veterinary bills. The wife remained silent the husband couldn't apologize enough. They left. The charity woman came over to me, and apologized!. "I couldn't believe they'd do that. I know these dogs, they're boisterous but I never thought they were killers." 

The dog owners rang not a week later and asked me call round at my convenience to see the new measures they had put in place to ensure the dogs could not escape again. These included some serious fencing and both dogs being neutered.

The charity lady had a complete turn around of attitude. She informed that she had raised the issue with head office and that wheels were in motion now to change policy on rehoming near livestock and step up education towards controlling your dog and the consequences and legalities if you don't.

Touch wood in the last ten years we've never had another incident. I occasionally see the charity woman, she's now the manager of the facility. She always gives a nod to the day that took the rose tinting off her view of the doggy world, and to her credit my eldest girl came home from school one day telling me all about the lady across the road and the speech she'd made about dogs and the countryside. 

In the heat of the moment I wanted to shoot the lead dog, my blood was up nearly as much as his, he deserved to be shot and many would have, but I've buried enough dogs of my own. The fact that he stopped on the whistle saved his and his buddies life. 

Just my 2 pence.

Excellent post. 

I've known of a few dogs shot in my time and I've never personally met a farmer that didnt think it was the last thing they wanted to do. 

The restraint you showed has clearly paid off as I should imagine an experience like that will live with the owners and charity workers, who will then go on to influence others positively, rather than what usually happens when a dog is shot, where the owner blames the (in their head) shot happy farmer, genuinely believing their dog couldn't be a killer. 

In my experience, the problems with dogs often starts when people attach human emotions to dogs, oftern babying them or on the other side treating them harshly/cruely when a dog doesn't understand what it did wrong. 

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On 06/04/2021 at 06:59, WalkedUp said:

Another good post. Very interesting. “Rehoming dogs” aka “dropping a problem onto someone else”. 

Genuinely not looking for an argument here after recent threads, so understand if you don't want to engage in a conversation about this. What's wrong with rehoming a dog? 

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I meet many dog walkers every day, some professional and some just owners taking max out for a dump.The over riding annoyance for me is when I get chatting and the conversation turns to "not many places to walk my dog", often I have suggested such and such woodland or areas of open fields only to hear the "Oh, I cant walk fido there because he chases Sheep", this from profesionals as much as old Grannies out with Mr Waggles. Now, my dogs will not bat an eye at sheep, Deer or anything that moves unless I tell them, why cant other people train their bloody dogs? These attacks are going to carry on until it becomes illegal to be stupid. As for rehoming problem Dogs, all mine are rescue/rehome and always have been, I've taken in Dogs that have been muzzled for years because they bite, dogs never allowed off lead cos they run away and even a Springer too frightened to let you stroke him (for months) and would hide in a bush as soon as he saw somebody approaching, my last (and one of my current) was 34kg (springer) who could not jump into the car and cried because his paws became sore after a couple of days walking because he was never allowed out of the house and was so overweight. Every single dog has made a brilliant, and well behaved, companion with a little time and patience, that's all a dog asks for.

Edited by bruno22rf
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24 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

I meet many dog walkers every day, some professional and some just owners taking max out for a dump.The over riding annoyance for me is when I get chatting and the conversation turns to "not many places to walk my dog", often I have suggested such and such woodland or areas of open fields only to hear the "Oh, I cant walk fido there because he chases Sheep", this from profesionals as much as old Grannies out with Mr Waggles. Now, my dogs will not bat an eye at sheep, Deer or anything that moves unless I tell them, why cant other people train their bloody dogs? These attacks are going to carry on until it becomes illegal to be stupid. As for rehoming problem Dogs, all mine are rescue/rehome and always have been, I've taken in Dogs that have been muzzled for years because they bite, dogs never allowed off lead cos they run away and even a Springer too frightened to let you stroke him (for months) and would hide in a bush as soon as he saw somebody approaching, my last (and one of my current) was 34kg (springer) who could not jump into the car and cried because his paws became sore after a couple of days walking because he was never allowed out of the house and was so overweight. Every single dog has made a brilliant, and well behaved, companion with a little time and patience, that's all a dog asks for.

At least those people aren't taking those dogs near sheep because they know that they'll chase.

I have a Beagle that wouldnt even flinch if a bomb went off next to her once her nose is down. I dont let her off unless its on the open flat playing field near my house where she cant leave me 3 hedges behind once she picks up a scent.

Edited by Pangolin
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1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

I meet many dog walkers every day, some professional and some just owners taking max out for a dump.The over riding annoyance for me is when I get chatting and the conversation turns to "not many places to walk my dog", often I have suggested such and such woodland or areas of open fields only to hear the "Oh, I cant walk fido there because he chases Sheep", this from profesionals as much as old Grannies out with Mr Waggles. Now, my dogs will not bat an eye at sheep, Deer or anything that moves unless I tell them, why cant other people train their bloody dogs? These attacks are going to carry on until it becomes illegal to be stupid. As for rehoming problem Dogs, all mine are rescue/rehome and always have been, I've taken in Dogs that have been muzzled for years because they bite, dogs never allowed off lead cos they run away and even a Springer too frightened to let you stroke him (for months) and would hide in a bush as soon as he saw somebody approaching, my last (and one of my current) was 34kg (springer) who could not jump into the car and cried because his paws became sore after a couple of days walking because he was never allowed out of the house and was so overweight. Every single dog has made a brilliant, and well behaved, companion with a little time and patience, that's all a dog asks for.

Great example that a rescue dog, even one with serious issues in the hands of a decent trainer can make an excellent working dog or pet. 

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