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Is this the end of Employee rights ?, All the hard fight in getting better working conditions from Ww2, British Gas sack 600??


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I’ve little patience for any of this ‘us and them’ Woolfy Smith nonsense.

I remember going to a mate’s 21 birthday party and his old man (wealthy employer of lots of people) was mingling and chatting and someone was moaning about their bosses and their job - his response was swift - ‘if you don’t like it then just leave. If they’re doing it wrong, you go and do it right - standing here moaning will achieve nothing and get you nowhere. You’ll need to expose yourself to the slings, arrows and risks your employers have, and you’ll need a second mortgage on your house to raise capital and you’ll have to work a bit harder and I hope your wife is understanding about the extra hours you’ll have to work’.

As for the likes of British Gas, British Telecom, British Rail, Local Authority Councils, the NHS and the Post Office, well they are great places to hide away from the real world aren’t they?

.

 

Edited by Mungler
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1 hour ago, Taileron said:

makes no sense to me at all.

But it makes perfect sense if you're a corporate, lower your overhead, but keep the capacity.  'Headcount' cost is far more than just what you pay your employee.

 

35 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 You’ll need to expose yourself to the slings, arrows and risks your employers have, and you’ll need a second mortgage on your house to raise capital and you’ll have to work a bit harder and I hope your wife is understanding about the extra hours you’ll have to work’.

Blimey; that must've been a while ago, 21 years old and already with a wife and a mortgage...

 

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3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Blimey; that must've been a while ago, 21 years old and already with a wife and a mortgage...

 


Yes that’s right the moral of that story is not to stop being a whiny girl and to place yourself in charge of your own employment and future, but that 21 is too young for a mortgage or marriage.

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4 minutes ago, Mungler said:


Yes that’s right the moral of that story is not to stop being a whiny girl and to place yourself in charge of your own employment and future, but that 21 is too young for a mortgage or marriage.

Can't it be both?  😁  Trying to give careers advice to a bunch of barely 21 yr old lads at a party....bet he was a right barrel of larfs.

The only job I've ever been fired from, so far at least, was a when I was working for a self-made-millionaire.  His trainset, his rules, but even he was guilty of "We've always done it this way" - fine when you're building 5 machines a year, but not 50.  I tried to improve things, but he didn't like it, and yes I didn't go in all guns blazing, and some of my improvements were certainly welcome amongst the team but not the boss...Yes absolutely I could've stuck out on my own.  Decided to take the easy way out and work for someone else though.

Speaking of which, am now self employed, reading stuff on PW is fine with the morning coffee or whilst waiting for meetings to start, but I can hear those spreadsheets a-calling.

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7 hours ago, Mungler said:

I’ve little patience for any of this ‘us and them’ Woolfy Smith nonsense.

I remember going to a mate’s 21 birthday party and his old man (wealthy employer of lots of people) was mingling and chatting and someone was moaning about their bosses and their job - his response was swift - ‘if you don’t like it then just leave. If they’re doing it wrong, you go and do it right - standing here moaning will achieve nothing and get you nowhere. You’ll need to expose yourself to the slings, arrows and risks your employers have, and you’ll need a second mortgage on your house to raise capital and you’ll have to work a bit harder and I hope your wife is understanding about the extra hours you’ll have to work’.

As for the likes of British Gas, British Telecom, British Rail, Local Authority Councils, the NHS and the Post Office, well they are great places to hide away from the real world aren’t they?

 

 


 

Its easier for most people to sit back and complain about work without doing anything about it. Most people just like to moan. 
 

Re the NHS and council (and I imagine most of those other organisations), they not all work shy good for nothing people. 
 

I’m in the Local Authority working out of hours now doing all sorts of emergencies, child abuse, mental health, homelessness, anything even slightly involving Social Care all in the middle of the night when you have extremely limited resources. 
 

A good portion of the team are fantastic. Everyday see people go above and beyond, not only in my team but from the Police, NHS, and a number of services. 
 

 

There is without doubt a section of people within the service however who do as little as possible. 
 

Everyone obviously hates working with those individuals. I’m lucky I’ve got into a rota with almost everyone who works their hardest. 
 

The issue is, and always has been, that the Local Authorities and NHS are awful at managing and doing anything about the work shy. Often they give them good references to get rid of them to another team. Then the staff who do all the work get fed up of carrying the lazy and end up leaving. 
 

Despite that, to say everyone in those organisations is hiding away from the real world is a bit much. 

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For the 600 its a raw deal indeed. In the grand scheme of things as the UK starts to bite the golden egg of Brexit and reap the rewards of the fitter leaner and harder working economy we are going to be part of they will hopefully find even better employment. The international deals are on the cusp and even now our Boris is preparing the ground to work closely with our new partner India. Things are looking up as we climb our way out of this covid gloom.

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2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Despite that, to say everyone in those organisations is hiding away from the real world is a bit much. 


It’s not everyone no, and as you say it is more likely that those dedicated workers end up working twice as hard to pick up the slack from the shirkers.

It would be better put to say that there are a disproportionately higher number of shirkers in those organisations and that’s because in a commercial environment, it just wouldn’t happen indeed it couldn’t be allowed to happen else the place would go bust. Yes, there are shirkers in private companies but they aren’t left there with a job for life, union protection and a generous pension.

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2 hours ago, Mungler said:


It’s not everyone no, and as you say it is more likely that those dedicated workers end up working twice as hard to pick up the slack from the shirkers.

It would be better put to say that there are a disproportionately higher number of shirkers in those organisations and that’s because in a commercial environment, it just wouldn’t happen indeed it couldn’t be allowed to happen else the place would go bust. Yes, there are shirkers in private companies but they aren’t left there with a job for life, union protection and a generous pension.

my ex wife was in Human Resources for an NHS Trust in London and a fair percentage of her time was spent dealing with people who's feet would never have touched the ground in a real world employer. So many people just taking the pee and getting away with it and it wasn't those at the bottom of the food chain. Doctors going off sick and then working as locums for another Trust on agency was typical. Nothing was ever done.

One of my best shooting mates for over fifty years worked for Harrow Council in North London. Some years ago we were talking about visiting a gun shop in Essex called Crouch Guns who was doing some fantastic deals at the time. My mate said "I can go the week after next because I am on sick leave that week" and he wasn't joking.

Every fourth week he was off sick on a rota. He also spent a lot of time away on "waste of time" residential courses that he described as mega **** ups followed by a lot of bedroom hopping. Which didn't do much for him because he was both tee total (diabetic) and gay, {which he didn't broadcast}. But he did say he made a lot on expenses by attending . 

So with his scheduled sick leave, legal holiday, courses for the sake of courses he was at his desk about 25% of the time but he cruised through that as well. Writing reports that would never be read for councillors that were only attending the council meetings to claim their £60 attendance allowance and beyond that didn't give a fig

 

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10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

my ex wife was in Human Resources for an NHS Trust in London and a fair percentage of her time was spent dealing with people who's feet would never have touched the ground in a real world employer. So many people just taking the pee and getting away with it and it wasn't those at the bottom of the food chain. Doctors going off sick and then working as locums for another Trust on agency was typical. Nothing was ever done.

One of my best shooting mates for over fifty years worked for Harrow Council in North London. Some years ago we were talking about visiting a gun shop in Essex called Crouch Guns who was doing some fantastic deals at the time. My mate said "I can go the week after next because I am on sick leave that week" and he wasn't joking.

Every fourth week he was off sick on a rota. He also spent a lot of time away on "waste of time" residential courses that he described as mega **** ups followed by a lot of bedroom hopping. Which didn't do much for him because he was both tee total (diabetic) and gay, {which he didn't broadcast}. But he did say he made a lot on expenses by attending . 

So with his scheduled sick leave, legal holiday, courses for the sake of courses he was at his desk about 25% of the time but he cruised through that as well. Writing reports that would never be read for councillors that were only attending the council meetings to claim their £60 attendance allowance and beyond that didn't give a fig

 

The gravy keeps flowing and flowing.

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Quote

It would be better put to say that there are a disproportionately higher number of shirkers in those organisations and that’s because in a commercial environment, it just wouldn’t happen indeed it couldn’t be allowed to happen else the place would go bust. Yes, there are shirkers in private companies but they aren’t left there with a job for life, union protection and a generous pension.

Accurate in my book.

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13 hours ago, Vince Green said:

my ex wife was in Human Resources for an NHS Trust in London and a fair percentage of her time was spent dealing with people who's feet would never have touched the ground in a real world employer. So many people just taking the pee and getting away with it and it wasn't those at the bottom of the food chain. Doctors going off sick and then working as locums for another Trust on agency was typical. Nothing was ever done.

One of my best shooting mates for over fifty years worked for Harrow Council in North London. Some years ago we were talking about visiting a gun shop in Essex called Crouch Guns who was doing some fantastic deals at the time. My mate said "I can go the week after next because I am on sick leave that week" and he wasn't joking.

Every fourth week he was off sick on a rota. He also spent a lot of time away on "waste of time" residential courses that he described as mega **** ups followed by a lot of bedroom hopping. Which didn't do much for him because he was both tee total (diabetic) and gay, {which he didn't broadcast}. But he did say he made a lot on expenses by attending . 

So with his scheduled sick leave, legal holiday, courses for the sake of courses he was at his desk about 25% of the time but he cruised through that as well. Writing reports that would never be read for councillors that were only attending the council meetings to claim their £60 attendance allowance and beyond that didn't give a fig

 

I used to work at Sedgefield Council before the Durham merge and one of the IT supervisors I worked with used to use his full paid sick allowance (6 months full pay) as part of his salary (as he called it), he actually only came back from sick when his pay was due to drop to 50% (apart from once when he messed his dates up), the six months full paid allowance 'reset' after a full 12 months back at work and he actually said out loud in our office "ah my 12 months is up today and I get full pay again from tomorrow"... that very next day he went on the sick again for the next six months.

As Lloyd said, these people always got a very good reference to move them on so they usually managed to actually climb the ladder, others like myself got sick of it and moved on.

Edited by Deker
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16 hours ago, Mungler said:


It’s not everyone no, and as you say it is more likely that those dedicated workers end up working twice as hard to pick up the slack from the shirkers.

It would be better put to say that there are a disproportionately higher number of shirkers in those organisations and that’s because in a commercial environment, it just wouldn’t happen indeed it couldn’t be allowed to happen else the place would go bust. Yes, there are shirkers in private companies but they aren’t left there with a job for life, union protection and a generous pension.


Bang on 👍🏻

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28 minutes ago, Deker said:

I used to work at Sedgefield Council before the Durham merge and one of the IT supervisors I worked with used to use his full paid sick allowance (6 months full pay) as part of his salary (as he called it), he actually only came back from sick when his pay was due to drop to 50% (apart from once when he messed his dates up), the six months full paid allowance 'reset' after a full 12 months back at work and he actually said out loud in our office "ah my 12 months is up today and I get full pay again from tomorrow"... that very next day he went on the sick again for the next six months.

my last contract gig was at a council - under IR35 - I lasted a week before I walked. Now, I had been there 12 years earlier and it was OK. This time round it was shocking. The working environment was absolutely disgusting. I had a PC that had a fan that was kaput and making a hell of a noise and was that old I might have used it the first time I was there - the manager laughed and said you have got my old PC. They wanted me to account for my time 5 different ways and I was even told that if the manager (who only worked 3 days a week) asked why I had booked time x months ago she expected me to be able to fully recant the full in's and outs. I found a major issue with their security - it would take an hour to fix - they wanted to have meetings between departments including several people to see who was going to pay for this 1 hour of work!!

Absolutely disgusting the amount of waste going on there 😞

 

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One thing I noticed is that anyone self employed or working in a small business can pretty much make a decision about just about anything and inside of 5 minutes. It just happens.

I’ve done some charity stuff and sat on a few boards and in so doing have been exposed to a number of local authority managers - my word, what a culture shock - death by committee meetings, inertia and total inactivity.

 

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41 minutes ago, Mungler said:

One thing I noticed is that anyone self employed or working in a small business can pretty much make a decision about just about anything and inside of 5 minutes. It just happens.

I done a project for BT for MOD - except what they done was let us run as a separate entity to keep all the bureaucracy out of the way so we could be agile - it worked well and we delivered in budget and on time and was even mentioned in HoP on how to deliver a successful government project

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On 18/04/2021 at 19:27, matone said:

They don`t treat their customers any better! Cowboy outfit. Our utilities should belong to the country not £ grabbing sharks.

only problem then is theyd become a political ping pong ball like the NHS. Do you remember the winter of discontent ?

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10 hours ago, Deker said:

I used to work at Sedgefield Council before the Durham merge and one of the IT supervisors I worked with used to use his full paid sick allowance (6 months full pay) as part of his salary (as he called it), he actually only came back from sick when his pay was due to drop to 50% (apart from once when he messed his dates up), the six months full paid allowance 'reset' after a full 12 months back at work and he actually said out loud in our office "ah my 12 months is up today and I get full pay again from tomorrow"... that very next day he went on the sick again for the next six months.

As Lloyd said, these people always got a very good reference to move them on so they usually managed to actually climb the ladder, others like myself got sick of it and moved on.

When I worked in a small engineering company we had a production worker who exactly pulled that stunt.

Unfortunately for her she had missed the requirement that she had to be "fit for work".

An appointment with an occupational health consultant quickly established that she was unfit for work, given her sickness record, and she was out.

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On 18/04/2021 at 19:27, matone said:

They don`t treat their customers any better! Cowboy outfit. Our utilities should belong to the country not £ grabbing sharks.

Too late for that one. All gone in the name of so called competition?

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I worked for a guy, independent manufacturer of specialised custom stuff. We made some amazing "products". The company couldnt hold staff. The partner / owner sold the business so a single person had control. It got crazy.

The lab staff had to stop work, to clean the new MD lease car. It was disgusting. (Physically). He didnt like being told that 3 techs cleaning his car just cost him £10k in down time. We lost one guy to that stunt.

Obviously a power trip. Later we found out that the previous owner still had lease cars. His, his wife, and his mistress. Free money to them.

The issue got blamed on the lowest rung guys.

The employees had a high wastage, failure to pay wages, failure to sort out big issues. When i first started, i didnt see my boss for a couple of months. He was in court. 

Then the owner hired his family. All borderline unemployable. 

People had multiple grieviences, we had assaults and poisonings. Actual poisonings. We ended up unable to eat anything unless it was locked in your car.

 It seemed employees are disposable and have no rights. I have seen some absolutely bonkers situations.

Some even got harrassed years later !

Im not surprised some employees play the system.

 

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36 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

I worked for a guy, independent manufacturer of specialised custom stuff. We made some amazing "products". The company couldnt hold staff. The partner / owner sold the business so a single person had control. It got crazy.

The lab staff had to stop work, to clean the new MD lease car. It was disgusting. (Physically). He didnt like being told that 3 techs cleaning his car just cost him £10k in down time. We lost one guy to that stunt.

Obviously a power trip. Later we found out that the previous owner still had lease cars. His, his wife, and his mistress. Free money to them.

The issue got blamed on the lowest rung guys.

The employees had a high wastage, failure to pay wages, failure to sort out big issues. When i first started, i didnt see my boss for a couple of months. He was in court. 

Then the owner hired his family. All borderline unemployable. 

People had multiple grieviences, we had assaults and poisonings. Actual poisonings. We ended up unable to eat anything unless it was locked in your car.

 It seemed employees are disposable and have no rights. I have seen some absolutely bonkers situations.

Some even got harrassed years later !

Im not surprised some employees play the system.

 


Why did you hang around so long? 😳

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On 20/04/2021 at 19:47, Mungler said:

One thing I noticed is that anyone self employed or working in a small business can pretty much make a decision about just about anything and inside of 5 minutes. It just happens.

I’ve done some charity stuff and sat on a few boards and in so doing have been exposed to a number of local authority managers - my word, what a culture shock - death by committee meetings, inertia and total inactivity.

 


Part of the issue is that the elf employed only had to answer to themselves, it’s their money and they do as they like with it. 
 

The LA’a if they make an obvious 5 minute decision get blasted for not having accountability, a fair bidding process and a paper trail. 
 

 

Just look at the face mask issue. 
 

It’s no surprises that entrepreneurs that own manufacturing companies are involved with the Tory party. It’s blindingly obvious that they would be. 
 

The country is going through a major pandemic the likes we haven’t seen for god knows. 
 

The people in charge, who are acquaintances and know the leaders of manufacture know that they can make a 5 minute decision, and speed ho getting contracts out to company’s that they know will be able to make face masks , ventilations etc. 
 

Just like a private company would do. We need 1,000,000 marks ... my mates company can do that ... get the order in. 
 

 

Now there is absolute chaos saying that they have given contracts to their mates etc. 
 

The Labour Party and the mob are going mad that this is some huge corrupt scandal. 
 

 

If I suddenly needed to get PPE FAST and I had mates who owned companies that could make PPE, I wouldn’t be hanging about putting it out to bids. 

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4 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

I worked for a guy, independent manufacturer of specialised custom stuff. We made some amazing "products". The company couldnt hold staff. The partner / owner sold the business so a single person had control. It got crazy.

The lab staff had to stop work, to clean the new MD lease car. It was disgusting. (Physically). He didnt like being told that 3 techs cleaning his car just cost him £10k in down time. We lost one guy to that stunt.

Obviously a power trip. Later we found out that the previous owner still had lease cars. His, his wife, and his mistress. Free money to them.

The issue got blamed on the lowest rung guys.

The employees had a high wastage, failure to pay wages, failure to sort out big issues. When i first started, i didnt see my boss for a couple of months. He was in court. 

Then the owner hired his family. All borderline unemployable. 

People had multiple grieviences, we had assaults and poisonings. Actual poisonings. We ended up unable to eat anything unless it was locked in your car.

 It seemed employees are disposable and have no rights. I have seen some absolutely bonkers situations.

Some even got harrassed years later !

Im not surprised some employees play the system.

 

Sounds awful. 

I think employee rights are virtually non existent in this country unless you work for government. 

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