India

[Dave-G]

35 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

At no point did I say that.  Some are. Some aren't.  Why should the former suffer, just because you think the latter shouldn't be allowed to go on holiday?  Why should the latter group even be restricted?  Personal responsibility is a thing, along with testing and quarantining.

 

I have re-read it, I suggest you do likewise.  At no point did you refer to 'Portugal etc.' 

Leaving aside for a moment the question of who died and made you arbiter of what constitutes essential travel; This thread is about India and people coming back from there.

By the way, the vast majority are British Nationals - or don't they count because they're brown?

Oh, and Brexit doesn't mean we're suddenly not part of Europe. 

Oh, and, UK holiday places are booked solid by all accounts.  So it would appear that the UK economic recovery is good as it's going to get for the tourist industry.  There is only so much capacity this little island has, so, if it's all right with you, I'll take my holidays elsewhere, when I finally get round to it, but only after I've visited my aged relatives, and travelled abroad for work!

We clearly have differing thoughts on the matter, its of little consequence to anyone unless they want to twist 'lazing on beaches' into 'visiting relatives' 

Point taken about India - I did stray a little because airports and flights were part of the discussion and I'm slightly autistic. One has to wonder how many travelled to and from India knowing full well its covid riddled just to socialise with family for Eid celebrations.

My thoughts will remain that I feel people queuing in airports and taking unnecessary flights in packed aircraft, probably taking a coach or cab when they get there, mingle with people from all over the world and then queue up to fly home again are more likely to assist the spread of covid than if they stayed at home. To my mind leisure flights in the current pandemic is being pathetic regardless if that is to your liking or not. 

 

[udderlyoffroad]

15 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

to anyone unless they want to twist 'lazing on beaches' into 'visiting relatives' 

It's not about 'twisting' anything; the law and restrictions apply to everyone.  Try and place yourself in someone else's situation before mindlessly condemning them.

Your interpretation of events is we should all stay at home indefinitely and close the borders, and then in the same breath talk about domestic economic recovery.  You have not thought this through.

And frankly, mentioning you're on the spectrum is a gross irrelevance.  That's 144 times more irrelevant than normal.

Since you mentioned Eid, I find it tedious in the extreme that people seriously think that this religious or quasi-religious self-denial (holidays, socialising, giving things up for lent, starving yourself during Ramadan, whatever) is somehow virtuous, and worse, is the silver bullet that will cure us of this pandemic.

Anecdotally, the loudest advocates of this are having 'a good war' and see no reason for life to get back to normal.

 

[Dave-G]

22 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It's not about 'twisting' anything; the law and restrictions apply to everyone.  Try and place yourself in someone else's situation before mindlessly condemning them.

Your interpretation of events is we should all stay at home indefinitely and close the borders, and then in the same breath talk about domestic economic recovery.  You have not thought this through.

And frankly, mentioning you're on the spectrum is a gross irrelevance.  That's 144 times more irrelevant than normal.

Since you mentioned Eid, I find it tedious in the extreme that people seriously think that this religious or quasi-religious self-denial (holidays, socialising, giving things up for lent, starving yourself during Ramadan, whatever) is somehow virtuous, and worse, is the silver bullet that will cure us of this pandemic.

Anecdotally, the loudest advocates of this are having 'a good war' and see no reason for life to get back to normal.

 

Whatever. 

[Mungler]

Kent variant, Brazilian variant, South African variant and now Indian variant. Incidentally note how no other variant than the Indian now counts or gets a mention but remember all the bed wetting that went on when not 2 months ago we were supposed to be chasing the Brazilian and South African variants around the Country?

There’s an interesting article in the Telegraph about the Stanford prison experiment and how quickly and easily people succumbed to authority and were reluctant to give up their roles - well that’s where we are now.

The wife and I have had our jabs, the kids have all already had it (without anyone noticing) and we’re booked and off on holiday abroad - I’d take 2 weeks in Syria right now. The last short break I had was Jan 2020 and I’ve worked every day since and in what has been the most stressful, difficult and now super busy time at work and a I’m coming to the end of my rope with it all. 

What everyone else wants to do is up to them. You can wall yourself up in your spare room, bleach your shopping and never have real World contact with any of your friends and family ever again if you like, but that’s not for me thanks.

 

[Pangolin]

The Indian variant is nothing to worry about just like all the others were nothing to worry about.

Hancock, Boris, SAGE and the media are what you want to be worried about, whipping up hysteria and division, you want to be worried about them scuppering the June 21st lifting of restrictions by peddling more ******** about variants.

10,000 hospitalisations by July from the Indian variant, my ****.

 

As for people going on holiday, its not selfish and its up to them if they wanna laze about on the beach. Personally, I wouldnt go, I couldnt give a **** about getting covid but because I cant see it being that enjoyable with restrictions in other countries.

If we dont accept risk now and continue unlock the UK with the vulnerable vaccinated then we never will be able to because there will always be variants.

If you are old or vulnerable you should have had the vaccines sorted, if you are young you are at extremely low risk like a common Influenza and if you dont want the vaccine then you've accepted risk so I cannot see why people are soo keen to stay under restrictions.

People travelling from India shouldnt be a big of an issue as its been made out to be but I expect its being used to highlight and put pressure on minority groups that are releuctant to take the vaccine.

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Pangolin

[henry d]

How the other variants fared is hopefully how the Indian one will, however the way it was spreading and the way it was reported I am not surprised that the government (and a fair wedge of the population) had twitchy bungholes!

[Vince Green]

The situation in India is far from resolved

India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims - BBC News

[JohnfromUK]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

The situation in India is far from resolved

The 'official' toll is widely acknowledged to be the tip of the iceberg.  The truth is that the situation in India is still developing - and despite a massive vaccination programme, the country is so big and with such a vast population that there is no doubt there will be many, many more deaths to come.  How much of this is due to the "Indian variant" being either more infectious, or more serious (or both) seems uncertain at present.  Hopefully, the widespread vaccinations here will prevent it spreading and reduce the seriousness of the illness here - or we will have a problem in a few weeks.

The idea that

4 hours ago, Pangolin said:

The Indian variant is nothing to worry about just like all the others were nothing to worry about.

does not ring true for me, but hopefully it is less to worry about here than the current situation in India due to our level of vaccination.

[mel b3]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The situation in India is far from resolved

India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims - BBC News

That makes pretty grim reading Vince 😕

[ditchman]

40 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

That makes pretty grim reading Vince 😕

apparantly they have run out of burnable wood..........

 

as i said before they are using fresh wood and the bodies are slowly cooking instead of burning .....what a to do

[mel b3]

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

apparantly they have run out of burnable wood..........

 

as i said before they are using fresh wood and the bodies are slowly cooking instead of burning .....what a to do

Its a awful situation . 

We moan about how bad things have been for us in this country,  but it's nothing compared to some parts of the world    😕  

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

Its a awful situation . 

We moan about how bad things have been for us in this country,  but it's nothing compared to some parts of the world    😕  

Its still pretty serious in Brazil too but India seems to have taken over as the news media's country of choice.

[Dave-G]

22 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It's not about 'twisting' anything; the law and restrictions apply to everyone.  Try and place yourself in someone else's situation before mindlessly condemning them.

Your interpretation of events is we should all stay at home indefinitely and close the borders, and then in the same breath talk about domestic economic recovery.  You have not thought this through.

And frankly, mentioning you're on the spectrum is a gross irrelevance.  That's 144 times more irrelevant than normal.

Since you mentioned Eid, I find it tedious in the extreme that people seriously think that this religious or quasi-religious self-denial (holidays, socialising, giving things up for lent, starving yourself during Ramadan, whatever) is somehow virtuous, and worse, is the silver bullet that will cure us of this pandemic.

Anecdotally, the loudest advocates of this are having 'a good war' and see no reason for life to get back to normal.

 

You went way over my head with that spectrum comment. It finally bugged me enough to Google and found this, explaining in some detail why I say some things a bit clumsy.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-asd/  Many of the symptoms in the paragraph - Social communication / interaction behaviors describe me quite well.

I've made it quite well known on here I have slight autism. I thought it was just minor dyslexia until some younger relatives were diagnosed: on reading their symptoms I found many of them applied to me... and a younger brother who sends me some messages that I sometimes post on here to gauge their validity.

A word processor gets me through most of my comments.

So I guess that makes me sub standard in some way in your opinion. Dunno why you felt desperate enough to comment on that just because we have opposing views but that seems to say more about you than me. I can accept our opinions differ - I suggest you do likewise.

I now feel like I've had to bare my soul to the forum - thanks mister.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Dave-G

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its still pretty serious in Brazil too but India seems to have taken over as the news media's country of choice.

Probably because of the amount of travellers that are returning from India. 

I still think travel to and from India should have been stopped a long time ago.

[Vince Green]

42 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Probably because of the amount of travellers that are returning from India. 

I still think travel to and from India should have been stopped a long time ago.

Well that's more than obvious from what's been happening in places like Bolton.

[Mungler]

15 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its still pretty serious in Brazil too but India seems to have taken over as the news media's country of choice.

From what we saw here in the Uk, there was a ‘dry tinder’ effect in that by and large it was the old and those already on the precipice who were taken by Covid.

Does anyone know if this holds true for other countries like India, S America and S Africa? 

I’ve always had it in my mind (rightly or wrongly) that the time to panic is when the under 40’s start getting ironed out in large numbers - that’s been my weather vane.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Mungler said:

From what we saw here in the Uk, there was a ‘dry tinder’ effect in that by and large it was the old and those already on the precipice who were taken by Covid.

I think that was certainly true here - initially anyway.  Now - with the majority of the old/vulnerable vaccinated, the situation is perhaps a bit different.

20 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Does anyone know if this holds true for other countries like India, S America and S Africa?

From what I have read it is probably at least mainly true - to the extent that the old and 'less healthy' are more at risk of serious consequences ........ but the major difference is that they have a much younger average age, which makes direct comparison rather more difficult.

There have been 'rumours' that the Indian strain can be more serious/infectious in the younger - but I have not see proof of that - and suspect it may just appear that way because the young (due to the vaccine programme protecting the older) are now making a larger percentage of cases?

[henry d]

25 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I’ve always had it in my mind (rightly or wrongly) that the time to panic is when the under 40’s start getting ironed out in large numbers - that’s been my weather vane

Sorry but it's time to worry

[Mungler]

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

Sorry but it's time to worry

Yeah, not good. Not good at all.

Good job there’s so many putting all their energies into pee peeing all over a vaccine 😆

[udderlyoffroad]

11 hours ago, Dave-G said:

So I guess that makes me sub standard in some way in your opinion.

You guessed wrong.

11 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Dunno why you felt desperate enough to comment on that just because we have opposing views but that seems to say more about you than me.

You raised the spectre of your autism, and I mentioned how irrelevant it was.

You also just spaffled your predjudices about me all over a public forum - viz, 'says more about you than me'.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by udderlyoffroad

[Stonepark]

36 minutes ago, Mungler said:

From what we saw here in the Uk, there was a ‘dry tinder’ effect in that by and large it was the old and those already on the precipice who were taken by Covid.

Does anyone know if this holds true for other countries like India, S America and S Africa?

Also true, basically any immune compromised person whether through age, illness or diet is at risk from any new disease.

 

However currently India's raw numbers whilst large due to population size are for daily covid cases only a 1\3 of the UK peak rate, likewise daily covid death rates are an 1\8 of UK peak.

 

Modi gave Delhi the funding for 8 new oxygen plants last year (as he did for every other state), however Delhi's Minister decided not to build them, as he had things "under control", but now O2 needing to be shipped in...

170,000 die a week in India from all causes, Covid is not yet presenting a significant increase in this.

[SpringDon]

41 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You guessed wrong.

<snip>

I don’t think that’s positive road to go down.

But I did think the 144 joke was funny. You just don’t get that sort of material from the metric system.

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Modi gave Delhi the funding for 8 new oxygen plants last year (as he did for every other state), however Delhi's Minister decided not to build them, as he had things "under control", but now O2 needing to be shipped in...

170,000 die a week in India from all causes, Covid is not yet presenting a significant increase in this.

Someone will be getting a grilling for not building the plants then, I wonder what they did with the money??

170,000 dying a week seems unreal but they do have a massive population when compared to us.

What ever happens with the Indian variant I'm seeing lots of pictures of people queuing for the vaccine now in Blackburn,  when I had my first jab in Preston a few weeks ago there was next to know one about, turned up on time and straight through. 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, SpringDon said:

You just don’t get that sort of material from the metric system.

It's a mega-irrelevance, 1 million times...anyway.

Raising the spectre of mental health and/or spectrum dwelling as a tool to shut down debate is cheap and foolish.  When I said it was irrelevent to the topic at hand, the man lost the plot and started casting aspersions about me, despite never having met me.

Just poor form, and not acceptable on a public forum in my not-so-humble opinion.

To the block list with him.

[Vince Green]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

From what we saw here in the Uk, there was a ‘dry tinder’ effect in that by and large it was the old and those already on the precipice who were taken by Covid.

Does anyone know if this holds true for other countries like India, S America and S Africa? 

I’ve always had it in my mind (rightly or wrongly) that the time to panic is when the under 40’s start getting ironed out in large numbers - that’s been my weather vane.

 

 

Anecdotal evidence from both Brazil and India is that, in general, the age of the victims is much lower but that could be for many reasons