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Reducing recoil on 12g


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2 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

That's about the last thing the OP should consider getting! A semi-auto already has weight too far forward and sticking a moderator on the end will simply exacerbate that disadvantage my moving it further forward still!

The ideal gun, in my opinion, is a light, short-barrelled (24" or 25") side-by-side with a single trigger and a longish pistol-gripped stock with a recoil-pad.

A good-quality well-made gun combined with lightly-loaded, mild cartridges will enable optimum performance.

Well I disagree entirely  .a super light weight gun is going to increase recoil .the op wants to reduce it .

I accept a mod on the end of a semi auto will increase weight and muzzle heavy at that .

BUT he did say he wanted to reduce recoil first .and a mod ACTUALLY does reduce recoil .so it's probably  worth him  considering one .even just for a minute  .he is asking for options after all .

 

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3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, are there any like that ? I only know the matador with SST with beaver tail forend 

The old SKB 200 side by side and BSA's branded product also made by SKB.

Edited by enfieldspares
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3 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

That's about the last thing the OP should consider getting! A semi-auto already has weight too far forward and sticking a moderator on the end will simply exacerbate that disadvantage my moving it further forward still!

The ideal gun, in my opinion, is a light, short-barrelled (24" or 25") side-by-side with a single trigger and a longish pistol-gripped stock with a recoil-pad.

A good-quality well-made gun combined with lightly-loaded, mild cartridges will enable optimum performance.

I had a Churchill Regal XXV which had been made in 1945 for an army major who'd lost his left arm - unusual surname and traced his son who told me that his father was still alive, this just 10 years ago. 25" barrels, double twin triggers (you could pull either twice), easy opener, straight hand stock, but the top lever was shorter and the safety catch was further forward than normal so all in all there was no need to move the hand. The only thing that it never had was the recoil pad. It barely weighed 6 pounds.

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24 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Well I disagree entirely  .a super light weight gun is going to increase recoil .the op wants to reduce it .

I accept a mod on the end of a semi auto will increase weight and muzzle heavy at that .

BUT he did say he wanted to reduce recoil first .and a mod ACTUALLY does reduce recoil .so it's probably  worth him  considering one .even just for a minute  .he is asking for options after all .

 

You can disagree all you like, but the plain fact of the matter is that, as the OP clearly stated, he only has one arm and, consequently, one hand, which perforce has to be employed at the hand of the stock in order to operate the trigger(s).

He therefore has no means of supporting the fore-end of the gun; he must mount it, hold it into his shoulder and swing it one-handed. It's therefore a nonsense to suggest that he should further encumber himself by attaching additional weight to the barrel. If you don't believe me I suggest you try repeatedly mounting and swinging a self-loading shotgun - even a so-called "lightweight" one - one handed. You'll soon be tired. Then try it with a weight equivalent to a moderator hanging off the end of the barrel. You'll be even more tired.

As for your assertion that a super lightweight gun will increase recoil, that's not strictly true. It's a more complex matter involving cartridge load, velocity, gun fit, and, indeed, the standard of construction of the gun itself.

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17 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I had a Churchill Regal XXV which had been made in 1945 for an army major who'd lost his left arm - unusual surname and traced his son who told me that his father was still alive, this just 10 years ago. 25" barrels, double twin triggers (you could pull either twice), easy opener, straight hand stock, but the top lever was shorter and the safety catch was further forward than normal so all in all there was no need to move the hand. The only thing that it never had was the recoil pad. It barely weighed 6 pounds.

Wymberley - you may just recall that Gough Thomas dealt with the loss of a hand or arm in "Shotguns and Cartridges", ch.12. His advice then remains pertinent still.

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42 minutes ago, aldivalloch said:

Wymberley - you may just recall that Gough Thomas dealt with the loss of a hand or arm in "Shotguns and Cartridges", ch.12. His advice then remains pertinent still.

Indeed.

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1 hour ago, aldivalloch said:

You can disagree all you like, but the plain fact of the matter is that, as the OP clearly stated, he only has one arm and, consequently, one hand, which perforce has to be employed at the hand of the stock in order to operate the trigger(s).

He therefore has no means of supporting the fore-end of the gun; he must mount it, hold it into his shoulder and swing it one-handed. It's therefore a nonsense to suggest that he should further encumber himself by attaching additional weight to the barrel. If you don't believe me I suggest you try repeatedly mounting and swinging a self-loading shotgun - even a so-called "lightweight" one - one handed. You'll soon be tired. Then try it with a weight equivalent to a moderator hanging off the end of the barrel. You'll be even more tired.

As for your assertion that a super lightweight gun will increase recoil, that's not strictly true. It's a more complex matter involving cartridge load, velocity, gun fit, and, indeed, the standard of construction of the gun itself.

Cheers I will .

You have to remember that this is an open forum and many people read it .there will be plenty of people  reading it with 2 arms who want to reduce recoil .and can handle a moderated shot gun .my advice stands  and I'm not so pig headed to presume what the op can and can't do .he is out shooting with one hand for goodness sake ,what a tough cookie he is .he has obviously  got more balls than me ,and more power to him I say .

I'm not going to tell him what he can and can't handle .

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, ah yes now you mention I remember those, SKB made in Japan ?

Yes. I had two of the 200E boxlocks at one time. There's nowadays a video of them on "The Gun Shop" You Tube with that tall lad John or whatever he's called. The only issue I'd have is that like some Baikal guns (also now available in SBS single trigger configuration) they had an awful lot of drop at the heel. 

If the drop isn't a problem on the more modern manufactutred Baikal guns maybe for the OP this is an answer? A single trigger, side by side with 26.5" barrels....in 28 Bore! So the recoil issue is solved. And all for but £325. I've no connection with the vendor I just used Google search facility.

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/baikal-izh-43e-1c-game-sste-28-bore-gauge-side-by-side/Shotguns/1290075

Edited by enfieldspares
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Dave Izzard's recoil reducers are second to none. As I understand it Dave developed trigger freeze from large heavy loads in old school FITASC and set about developing these as a solution. I currently use the X-Pad which is foam. I have shot a gun that fitted beautifully with one of the expensive mechanical reducers (ISIS 2?)and it was like the gun floated on air. https://www.recoilsystems.com/ 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Well I disagree entirely  .a super light weight gun is going to increase recoil .the op wants to reduce it .

I accept a mod on the end of a semi auto will increase weight and muzzle heavy at that .

BUT he did say he wanted to reduce recoil first .and a mod ACTUALLY does reduce recoil .so it's probably  worth him  considering one .even just for a minute  .he is asking for options after all .

 

Whilst you may disagree a one handed shooter need the balance point moved towards the stock not barrel and moderators add weight and unbalance most guns.  
 

semi autos generally don’t work for one handed shooters either as their balance point is further forward also very hard to reload.  
 

Those I’ve worked with who are only using one hand shoot best with a medium weight OU with 26-28” barrels.  
 

there is also a device that fit to the shoe, it has stud about 3 -6” long that goes in the barrel to aim the shooter hold the gun and reload. 

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12 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

Whilst you may disagree a one handed shooter need the balance point moved towards the stock not barrel and moderators add weight and unbalance most guns.  
 

semi autos generally don’t work for one handed shooters either as their balance point is further forward also very hard to reload.  
 

Surely you meant to say that the balance point needs to be moved toward the muzzle, to give more weight at the stock end? Or am I thinking wrongly?

Fifty years ago I was a guest at a flight pond and the other guest had only one arm and used a Breda s/a to good effect. He reloaded by standing the butt between his feet.

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23 minutes ago, London Best said:

Surely you meant to say that the balance point needs to be moved toward the muzzle, to give more weight at the stock end? Or am I thinking wrongly?

Fifty years ago I was a guest at a flight pond and the other guest had only one arm and used a Breda s/a to good effect. He reloaded by standing the butt between his feet.

No if you move it forward the gun will be very tiring to use.  
 

The balance point for a 2 handed shooter is between the hands a one handed shooter needs it close to their hand.  So it moves rearwards to the stock.  

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25 minutes ago, London Best said:

Or am I thinking wrongly?

I think you are.  My guess is that if you are one handed - you want the opint of balance not much in front of where that hand holds the gun - or your wrist is under strain supporting the barrels.  Try holding a gun up one handed then add a little weight around the muzzle - and you will find it MUCH harder to hold.

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3 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

No if you move it forward the gun will be very tiring to use.  
 

The balance point for a 2 handed shooter is between the hands a one handed shooter needs it close to their hand.  So it moves rearwards to the stock.  

Ah! Thanks, got it now.

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Hi all, sorry for the delay in getting back to you all!

Yes you are correct, the weight needs to be more towards the rear for me as the weight needs to be between the contact points ie my hand and shoulder. 

Normally it would be correct to go for a slightly heavy gun for less recoil but then fatigue becomes an issue. On high birds it's not a problem but rabbits are very tiring. 

I'd like to stick with 12 bore for now and O/U are my preference. I know they're cheap but I'm looking at either an ATA or a Koffs in 26" barrels because I want to mess around with porting for muzzle flip and it's starts getting expensive quickly!

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45 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I have a kofs 20b with 26 inch barrels  

It's light weight and easy to swing around lovely in the hand  .... and kicks like a mule .I have to limit it to med weight cartridges of 24 grm   21 s are better but then not so great on pigeons  .

Yeah that's why I need to look at recoil pads and vest options because the gun that will be ideal for me will destroy my shoulder after 100 clays!

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A chap at the  club I used to attend had one arm and he used a C bracket attached to his belt lined with felt. He would break the gun and rest it in the cradle, unload and reload, lift the stock out of the cradle and closed the gun and be ready for the next shot. He favoured skeet and did pretty well. 

Edited by Mr.C
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