Shotgun Cartridges on an FAC?

[Tom-HK]

Hi, I am putting in for my FAC renewal and will be adding an S1 shotgun slot. I will also be adding an appropriate quantity of S1 solid slug ammunition. As an existing S1 FAC holder, this is all familiar to me.

I would also like to get my ticket conditioned so that I could use the S1 shotgun not just for target shotgun, but also for clays and game. My question is, would I need to add anything special (in terms of ammo conditions, perhaps?) to my FAC in order to be able to buy non-slug 'normal' shotgun cartridges?

I have read, somewhere, that if you have a shotgun on an FAC then you can just rock up to a dealer and buy normal shotgun cartridges in the same way as the holder of a shotgun certificate might. Others have suggested that I would need a separate Shotgun Certificate for ammunition other than the S1 solid slug on my FAC.

 

I am also aware that not all pests and critters can be lawfully taken with an S1 shotgun, and that not every clay site likes box magazines. Nevertheless, whilst target shotgun is my main focus, I would still like sufficiently broad conditioning of my FAC to open up other possibilities. I used to be quite handy with an S2 shotgun, in my youth, and wouldn't mind getting back into that aspect of shooting, but mostly only if I don't have to get a separate certificate or another gun.

 

 

[WalkedUp]

Others will be better placed to give advice on the legal specifics, however my advice would be thus:

Make your life easy and apply for a coterminous FAC & SGC, it is the same work and pennies more. 

[Mr grumpy]

When i had my s1 shotgun,it was one of the conditions for clay target shooting.i didn't ask for it to be put on,it automatically had it.

[dabloobana]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

Others will be better placed to give advice on the legal specifics, however my advice would be thus:

Make your life easy and apply for a coterminous FAC & SGC, it is the same work and pennies more. 

I agree with this advice. I was going to write about the legalt

ities and how to posess shotgun cartridges without SGC etc but @WalkedUp 's advice is sound

[saddler]

2 hours ago, dabloobana said:

I agree with this advice. I was going to write about the legalt

ities and how to posess shotgun cartridges without SGC etc but @WalkedUp 's advice is sound

You do NOT need to show a SGC to buy regular shotgun cartridges, so absolutely no need at all to also have a SGC..!
An FAC is also valid when shotguns are listed as possessed on it.

I had shotguns on my FAC for well over a decade & had zero issues buying regular shotgun ammo using my FAC, and I cannot recall ever being questioned on why I was not showing a SGC to buy S2 cartridges.

The legal document to possess standard S2 shotgun ammo, is of course - no legal document required = the issue is showing legal ownership of a shotgun at time of purchase, so an FAC or SGC do an equal job when you have said guns listed on your FAC

CLAYS SHOOTING CONDITION
There was a legal ruling made some years ago now, that ALL S.1 shotguns could be so conditioned to allow use for clay shooting, and this condition should be added as a default.
Not all Firearms Depts are aware of this or bother complying with the law/rulings, so it may be best to point out that you require this condition on your FAC

Edited May 8, 2021 by saddler

[Rewulf]

53 minutes ago, saddler said:

You do NOT need to show a SGC to buy regular shotgun cartridges, so absolutely no need at all to also have a SGC..!

You do not need an SGC to possess non slug carts , but you often have problems buying them without one.
If the shop/ground 'knows' you its not normally a problem, and it may not be a legal requirement, but usually you are asked for it when buying.
They always ask to see a sec 1 shotgun on FAC for slugs in my experience.

[saddler]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You do not need an SGC to possess non slug carts , but you often have problems buying them without one.
If the shop/ground 'knows' you its not normally a problem, and it may not be a legal requirement, but usually you are asked for it when buying.
They always ask to see a sec 1 shotgun on FAC for slugs in my experience.

Aye - an FAC does exactly the same job as a SGC for the purpose of S.2 carts as long as you have shotguns on the FAC...
A few shops local to me even have printed out notices to this effect at the tills - "Shotgun ammo will ONLY be sold on production of a valid SGC or FAC"

They'd HAVE to make sure any FAC shotgun slug purchase was also listed as valid in the ammo table - as I had my S.1 shotguns for over a decade before venturing into slug shooting - and I don't own S.1 shotguns in 10-bore or 20-bore but DO have slug on my FAC for them; which may confuse your local RFDs...

 

[Tom-HK]

Thanks, everyone, for the helpful responses. I can see that I should be all right with just the FAC, but I will be prepared for the possibility of running into difficulties with a dealer every now and then. If it becomes a regular headache, or if I swing more seriously back towards S2 shotguns, then I will definitely get an SGC.

[dabloobana]

3 hours ago, saddler said:

You do NOT need to show a SGC to buy regular shotgun cartridges, so absolutely no need at all to also have a SGC..!
An FAC is also valid when shotguns are listed as possessed on it.

I had shotguns on my FAC for well over a decade & had zero issues buying regular shotgun ammo using my FAC, and I cannot recall ever being questioned on why I was not showing a SGC to buy S2 cartridges.

The legal document to possess standard S2 shotgun ammo, is of course - no legal document required = the issue is showing legal ownership of a shotgun at time of purchase, so an FAC or SGC do an equal job when you have said guns listed on your FAC

CLAYS SHOOTING CONDITION
There was a legal ruling made some years ago now, that ALL S.1 shotguns could be so conditioned to allow use for clay shooting, and this condition should be added as a default.
Not all Firearms Depts are aware of this or bother complying with the law/rulings, so it may be best to point out that you require this condition on your FAC

You are right.

See what i wrote (posess albeit without the underlining) and i also wrote that i decided against writing this advice because i feel having both fac + sgc is better esp since OP wrote that he is thinking about getting into shotgunning.

[welshwizard]

I use the same rfd for all my cartridges and has always been asked for proof and at game fairs? 

[landrover]

Multi shot won’t be passed for game, 

[landrover]

[Tom-HK]

UPDATE: I had a lovely chat with my local FEO during the renewal interview and he agreed to the S1 shotgun for clays and target, along with solid slugs for the target work. Said he wouldn't allow for vermin or game or open conditions until I had an invitation to shoot on ground that was approved for that purpose. That's fine. Just limits me to formal ranges, for the time being. A friend who works an estate in Ayrshire has invited me up, so this is a condition I could go for in the near future, possibly.

The problem is, however, that my FAC has come back without a couple of key details that were in my application and agreed to in the interview:

 

1) The S1 shotgun is for target shooting only (no clays);

2) There is no allowance for S1 solid slugs for target shooting!

This leaves me with a slot for a shotgun that cannot be used for clays (or vermin or game), but for which I also cannot acquire the proper ammunition for target shooting!

I have left a voicemail for my FEO, sent him an e-mail and contacted my local Firearms Unit via their web feature (no chance of getting a reply from that, I know), and I just hope I can get this solved soon. The renewal has already been over 20 weeks and I can easily see this problem dragging on for months.

Anyone ever had a similar experience? This is with Surrey police.