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Dog thefts / puppy price's


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I will start this off by saying that this is in no way a poke at people here selling good quality stock from good lines.

 

But.... What are people's thoughts on the current prices for puppies and the clear link to why scum want to steal our family members for their own gain. Personally I think even though demand went up hugely this last year the prices really could of stayed lower than they have become. Maybe I see it as greed rather than people breeding because it's what they do. Did the price of docking, chipping, first set of jabs go up in price this year meaning a dog that would of been 800-1200 pounds suddenly became 2.5-3.5 thousand??

I don't breed So don't know costs involved. But surely it doesn't cost 2k per pup in breeding costs to then sell at 3k?

Cheers

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Posted (edited)

I’ll start off by saying I hate having litters! The worry, the stress, the seemingly never ending carp that you have to clean up and which they get covered in if you’re not quick enough... 🤢

I think working dogs have always been undervalued. I’m not talking about the guy who puts his bitch to the dog down the road because it’s convenient and who hasnt put any thought into it whatsoever, usually saying they’re just doing it to ‘keep the line going 🙄😂’ and who will sell them to any Tom, **** or Harry, either.

After docking, dew claws and microchipping, wormer, flea treatments, heat lamps, electricity, shavings / bedding, food, KC reg, stud fee and all the time and effort put in to handle them and make sure those pups are as confident and happy as they can be - well, I know I wouldn’t get out of bed for the hourly rate that would correspond to! Luckily I have three little minions who are more than happy to help out with the cuddling and handling side of things or I wouldn’t be able to get anything else done 😂

Theres also the worry that if you sell them too cheap they may get sold on again to make money at the current prices - I have a couple of friends who this has happened to. 
 

Thing is, people will pay the money if it’s worth it to them. That’s what it comes down to. At the moment, supply and demand dictates that if I wanted to go out and buy a pup like mine I would have to pay the price I’m asking for mine and I would happily do it because it’s just the way things are at the moment. 🤷‍♀️

As for the rise in dog thefts, agreed it’s become more prevalent these days but it has always happened, perhaps not as widely publicised as it has been recently. For thieves It’s a case of ‘where there is chaos there is opportunity’

Edited by bigbird
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I had both my bitches fixed before their first season. Therefore no puppies and no use to thieves for breeding.

I honestly think the price will drop after all this covid stuff finishes and people are no longer at home or working from home, wanting company or to take "something" for a walk.

Within a couple of years the rescue centres and kennels will be full of unwanted covid bought animals.

Such is the fickelness of folk.

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2 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

 

Within a couple of years the rescue centres and kennels will be full of unwanted covid bought animals.

Such is the fickelness of folk.

I should add here that if for any reason people who have our pups need to give them up we buy them back at what they paid for them...

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The demand for pups last year was insane - hence the silly prices people were getting. 

I agree with Bigbird, if you don’t price pups at the market value - someone will by and sell on. 
 

I advertised a litter for a friend last December and there were about 350 ads for Labradors for sale on pets4homes. 
Today there is over a thousand! The market will be flooded, breeders will be stuck with their badly bred pups and prices will drop. 
 

well that’s my take anyway 😂

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I totally agree with everything said here and you are not going to change things but ,when we have a situation like covid when every body wants a dog to walk and then someone with a litter of pups doubles the price for instance lab pups in my area where 800 quid then all off a sudden 1600_3000 in some cases you then get another problem of people steeling them ,I think it's why more dogs are being taken by screws because if they had a price tag of 50 quid they would not be bothered.

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2 hours ago, bigbird said:

I’ll start off by saying I hate having litters! The worry, the stress, the seemingly never ending carp that you have to clean up and which they get covered in if you’re not quick enough... 🤢

I think working dogs have always been undervalued. I’m not talking about the guy who puts his bitch to the dog down the road because it’s convenient and who hasnt put any thought into it whatsoever, usually saying they’re just doing it to ‘keep the line going 🙄😂’ and who will sell them to any Tom, **** or Harry, either.

After docking, dew claws and microchipping, wormer, flea treatments, heat lamps, electricity, shavings / bedding, food, KC reg, stud fee and all the time and effort put in to handle them and make sure those pups are as confident and happy as they can be - well, I know I wouldn’t get out of bed for the hourly rate that would correspond to! Luckily I have three little minions who are more than happy to help out with the cuddling and handling side of things or I wouldn’t be able to get anything else done 😂

Theres also the worry that if you sell them too cheap they may get sold on again to make money at the current prices - I have a couple of friends who this has happened to. 
 

Thing is, people will pay the money if it’s worth it to them. That’s what it comes down to. At the moment, supply and demand dictates that if I wanted to go out and buy a pup like mine I would have to pay the price I’m asking for mine and I would happily do it because it’s just the way things are at the moment. 🤷‍♀️

As for the rise in dog thefts, agreed it’s become more prevalent these days but it has always happened, perhaps not as widely publicised as it has been recently. For thieves It’s a case of ‘where there is chaos there is opportunity’

I totally agree, i'm currently fostering a mates pups, and i still don't know who volunteered me for it. A lot of work, a lot of work !

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

I totally agree, i'm currently fostering a mates pups, and i still don't know who volunteered me for it. A lot of work, a lot of work !

But ... Is 20-30k income right for how many weeks work... That to some people is more than they are paid in a year.

Might be alot of work but is it 2-3k per pup amount of work.

 

I'm not saying the price shouldn't match market, but should the market be up this high.

Also if you sell the pup at a price and it gets sold on then yes it's bitter taste but once someone else owns it and all.. I'd hate for it to happen if I ever bred but you would have to just suck it up.

Edited by ShootingEgg
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20 - 30 K How many pups at what price and what breed are you talking ? 

Have you ever bred a litter of pups ? 

Have you ever cared for nursed and looked after a pup, and thought you'd sold it to someone who at that time thought was going to look after and care for it as you had to find they'd sold it on ? Could  you suck it up ?

I sold a pup once to a man who wanted 2 , i wouldn't sell him 2 but agreed to sell him 1 , it was the only one i had to go and get back. A journey from Newcastle to Bristol and back. Would you do that?

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2.5-3k per pup and say two litters. Math isn't my strong point but I know of litters of eight. So two or three times table I can do .

I said in my OP I do not breed.

But to push out 2 plus litters this last year you would have earned above the average salary and potentially tax free .. maybe I'm the fool for thinking prices are too high. Maybe I should have a litter.. although I'd make millions as if my DOG had pups it would be a miracle. 😂

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My first Lab was from a gundog breeder i got about 2003 we paid about £650 for her, the Lab i have now is 5 years old and we paid £870 so I  guess with inflation the cost for a pup now I would have to pay £1000-1100, certainly not the 2-3K I have seen advertised.

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20 minutes ago, paul1966 said:

My first Lab was from a gundog breeder i got about 2003 we paid about £650 for her, the Lab i have now is 5 years old and we paid £870 so I  guess with inflation the cost for a pup now I would have to pay £1000-1100, certainly not the 2-3K I have seen advertised.

And this is what I'd imagine the price point should be. But good old supply and demand has pushed prices up.. when really you could say, I have X number now and will be in pup again on this date. Keeping prices down and then stress off the bitches and owners.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

2.5-3k per pup and say two litters. Math isn't my strong point but I know of litters of eight. So two or three times table I can do .

I said in my OP I do not breed.

But to push out 2 plus litters this last year you would have earned above the average salary and potentially tax free .. maybe I'm the fool for thinking prices are too high. Maybe I should have a litter.. although I'd make millions as if my DOG had pups it would be a miracle. 😂

VERY PRESUMPTUOUS TO SAY I HAVE I HAVE PUSHED OUT 2 LITTERS THIS YEAR. WHICH I HAVE NOT. And like you said you have no experience of breeding pups whatsoever, and therefor can only guess at whats involved. So imho aren't even qualified, should we say, to say what price pups should be or shouldn't be or anything in between. 

49 minutes ago, paul1966 said:

My first Lab was from a gundog breeder i got about 2003 we paid about £650 for her, the Lab i have now is 5 years old and we paid £870 so I  guess with inflation the cost for a pup now I would have to pay £1000-1100, certainly not the 2-3K I have seen advertised.

Quality costs. And just a thought, maybe the prices of pups have always stayed down. Maybe someone who pays a higher price for their dog won't be as keen to pass it on and may be keener to use it to it's full potential.

 

Edited by ninjaferret
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

VERY PRESUMPTUOUS TO SAY I HAVE I HAVE PUSHED OUT 2 LITTERS THIS YEAR. WHICH I HAVE NOT

Woah, at no point was that aimed at anyone .. it was just a sentence. I have no reason to point a finger at anyone, or accuse or presume anything. I was saying that if someone has had two or more litters then it's a lot of potentially tax free income.

 

Think I've hit a nerve for you to get that defensive. As for what's involved I'm not sure you need qualifications for it.. I purely asked a simple question about the link between the price of puppies and thefts over the last year. Think you need to put your keyboard down before you break it.

Edited by ShootingEgg
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24 minutes ago, ninjaferret said:

But to push out 2 plus litters this last year you would have earned above the average salary and potentially tax free ..

As above, YOU.

And to put an end to things, maybe pup prices have been far too low for far too long. ATB

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One of my current dogs was over 5k before the covid price hikes took full effect and all the training that's been put into him, I couldn't even put a price on him now, not that he'd ever be for sale, sometimes you really do get what you pay for. Yet I've a spaniel that I paid 150 for, I bet a common crook wouldn't have a clue at the price difference, to me they're both family members and the money is irrelevant, but the general price hikes have certainly pushed thefts up. 

 

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8 hours ago, bigbird said:

I’ll start off by saying I hate having litters! The worry, the stress, the seemingly never ending carp that you have to clean up and which they get covered in if you’re not quick enough... 🤢

I think working dogs have always been undervalued. I’m not talking about the guy who puts his bitch to the dog down the road because it’s convenient and who hasnt put any thought into it whatsoever, usually saying they’re just doing it to ‘keep the line going 🙄😂’ and who will sell them to any Tom, **** or Harry, either.

After docking, dew claws and microchipping, wormer, flea treatments, heat lamps, electricity, shavings / bedding, food, KC reg, stud fee and all the time and effort put in to handle them and make sure those pups are as confident and happy as they can be - well, I know I wouldn’t get out of bed for the hourly rate that would correspond to! Luckily I have three little minions who are more than happy to help out with the cuddling and handling side of things or I wouldn’t be able to get anything else done 😂

Theres also the worry that if you sell them too cheap they may get sold on again to make money at the current prices - I have a couple of friends who this has happened to. 
 

Thing is, people will pay the money if it’s worth it to them. That’s what it comes down to. At the moment, supply and demand dictates that if I wanted to go out and buy a pup like mine I would have to pay the price I’m asking for mine and I would happily do it because it’s just the way things are at the moment. 🤷‍♀️

As for the rise in dog thefts, agreed it’s become more prevalent these days but it has always happened, perhaps not as widely publicised as it has been recently. For thieves It’s a case of ‘where there is chaos there is opportunity’

Absolutely agree on all points. The hassle is not worth it in my eyes which is why I don’t breed mine. There are enough people who are producing good stock, particularly here in SW Scotland. Pups have been undervalued but I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way but as you say it is market forces. I do hope they come back down to realistic levels in the future but suspect it will not be precovid prices.

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6 hours ago, ninjaferret said:

As above, YOU.

And to put an end to things, maybe pup prices have been far too low for far too long. ATB

Well I apologize if you feel it was aimed at you. I just used the word to make the sentence. At no point did I intend for YOU to feel attacked or it aimed at YOU. 

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5 minutes ago, Not2Night said:

If the tax man started chasing up the people over charging for pups i wonder what would happen then, ? 8 pups x £3000  £24000 less tax wow look out the tax man is coming 😀


So what? What would happen? 
 

If someone has to pay tax on that £24,000 from one litter, at 20% tax that’s only £4,800. 
 

Still leaves them with £19,200 for a litter. 
 

Considering average income most will pay 20% tax. 
 

That’s without people saying the income was their partners, kids or other relatives. 
 

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  • 2 months later...

Much as debated above it seems the demand for pups is finally dwindling, and at some speed. I am seeing so many good litters up here in SW Scotland not fully taken up; all working breeds . These are cracking dogs with good working and, or, trialling pedigrees. Some are still asking COVID prices but by no means all. I genuinely hope this both reduces the amount of dog theft and prices to more affordable levels. I guess we can only wait and see.
On an associated point my daughter quit her job to set up a dog walking business in December, much to my horror. Seven months in she is fully booked and won’t take any more. To be fair she won’t walk masses of dogs at once. As she put it, now everyone is being dragged back to work a lot of people need help with their dogs and are prepared to pay for the privilege.

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On the subject of puppy prices ,I have just noticed on the stalking directory website ,classified section for gun dogs quite a few litters not selling ,and prices being reduced .

when I bought mine 9 or 10 weeks ago I insisted on placing a deposit before I had seen the litter because I had already missed several pups by not moving quickly enough ,litters were always sold in days .

On the stalking directory site springers reduced to £950 and up to yesterday still unsold some litters unsold after several weeks maybe the bubble has burst ?

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36 minutes ago, holloway said:

On the subject of puppy prices ,I have just noticed on the stalking directory website ,classified section for gun dogs quite a few litters not selling ,and prices being reduced .

when I bought mine 9 or 10 weeks ago I insisted on placing a deposit before I had seen the litter because I had already missed several pups by not moving quickly enough ,litters were always sold in days .

On the stalking directory site springers reduced to £950 and up to yesterday still unsold some litters unsold after several weeks maybe the bubble has burst ?


Burst a few weeks ago. 
 

The demand was driven by the pet market. 
 

Most working dog folk didn’t want to pay £2-2.5k for a pup. 
 

Now that the demand has been filled for the pet folk there are a lot of litters on the ground and not enough homes for them. 
 

If you want a well bred dog you can be  selective now. 
 

There’s a lot of pups about (especially dog pups) from some top stuff that hasn’t been sold. 

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