fern01 Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Having seen all the reports regarding the mass influx of migrants from Morocco into the Spanish enclave of Ceuta I can't help seeing the comparisons of Ceuta with Gibralta and also the channel crossing of migrants to England from France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Sorry I don't understand, do you mean Spanish migration into Gib or East Africans into Gib? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 I think OP is referring to Spain objecting to Gibraltar whilst having their very own offshore enclave which I have to say I `d not heard of before.Spain obviously doesn`t want to welcome the influx there whilst Europe seems to think we should take all of the trash that passes through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, matone said: I think OP is referring to Spain objecting to Gibraltar whilst having their very own offshore enclave which I have to say I `d not heard of before.Spain obviously doesn`t want to welcome the influx there whilst Europe seems to think we should take all of the trash that passes through it. Except Spain sends 99% of them straight back. I particularly liked the way the media tried to pull at our heart strings by saying they had swam from Morocco, conjuring images of desperate families swimming in high seas for hours, with many not making it.... They even provided video of a distant shore to prove the point.... Except Ceuta shares a large (fenced) land border with Morocco , and the 'refugees' , Moroccan teenagers mostly , just waded out into the sea en masse to avoid the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Good on Spain ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 I bet the Spanish treat them better than we do our home nations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, oowee said: I bet the Spanish treat them better than we do our home nations? They do indeed , they were 'greeted' by troops and APC s , who gave them a quick beating and threw them back into the sea in some cases https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-deploys-army-ceuta-patrol-border-with-morocco-after-migrants-break-2021-05-18/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuarta Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 32 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Except Spain sends 99% of them straight back. I particularly liked the way the media tried to pull at our heart strings by saying they had swam from Morocco, conjuring images of desperate families swimming in high seas for hours, with many not making it.... They even provided video of a distant shore to prove the point.... Except Ceuta shares a large (fenced) land border with Morocco , and the 'refugees' , Moroccan teenagers mostly , just waded out into the sea en masse to avoid the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuarta Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Having visited Ceuta twice in the last three years with work I can assure you that once they gain entry into Ceuta they are not sent back by the Spanish. Three or four years back they were detained in a purpose built migrant camp for six to eight months. As the numbers getting into Ceuta has increased the length of detention has decreased to prevent the camp population overflowing, they are detained for only one to two weeks now and then put on the ferry to mainland Spain. The EU were/are giving Morocco vast sums of money and favourable trade terms in return for stopping the migrants entering Ceuta, the border is rows of seven meters high razor wire, any Africa migrant caught between the rows of fences is sent back to Morocco but once over the second row they can claim refugee status. The migrants are nor Moroccans, they can freely enter Ceuta and hundreds do every day for work and at least 30% of the population of Ceuta are Arab or Berbers originally from Morocco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuarta Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 The migrants that have swum ashore in Ceuta did not swim around the bay, they were in boats that floundered and sunk, many are drowned and a few survive, I have personally spoken to a number of survivors who struggled ashore after hours in the water. There is no border force or life boat help as between France and England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, Stuarta said: I can assure you that once they gain entry into Ceuta they are not sent back by the Spanish. 'Spain said approximately 4,000 migrants had already been sent back to Morocco, under a readmission deal.' Thats 2 days after they first entered. 'A Reuters reporter on the ground said the number of arrivals by sea had slowed, and some migrants were voluntarily returning to Morocco. ' Why would they do that if they are going to be processed and given refugee status ? Im not disputing what you are saying , but plenty of news sites are reporting them as being Moroccan in general , with some sub Saharan Africans mixed in, and the usual 'minors' which are generally in their 20 s in reality. Spain usually dont mind French speaking Moroccans and Africans , because they know the ultimate destination for most of them is France, so wont become their problem. Things have changed somewhat , obviously, as the Spanish authorities are not having it this time ? 1 minute ago, Stuarta said: The migrants that have swum ashore in Ceuta did not swim around the bay, they were in boats that floundered and sunk, many are drowned and a few survive, I have personally spoken to a number of survivors who struggled ashore after hours in the water. There is no border force or life boat help as between France and England. The video in the link I posted clearly shows them wading round the fence ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Stuarta said: ...once they gain entry into Ceuta they are not sent back by the Spanish. That's pretty much what I saw on a TV program, iirc there were two young men found by the authorities and they were well treated and were happy to be detained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Just now, henry d said: That's pretty much what I saw on a TV program, iirc there were two young men found by the authorities and they were well treated and were happy to be detained. Depends what TV channel I suppose , if it was the Beeb , then they will obviously portray the 'desperate plight of these refugees' fleeing war and persecution, being welcomed into the loving embrace of the EU , and a new life On the other hand , you could actually get back into reality and see what really happened to these economic migrants, who will for the most part be sent back with a few bruises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuarta Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 Thank you Rewulf i will contact the people I know in Ceuta this evening for an update, they live very near the migrant centre and I met the camp commander in their home a number of times so they will have a clear picture of what is happening I’m sorry if I have posted misleading information and if I have I will update it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stuarta said: Thank you Rewulf i will contact the people I know in Ceuta this evening for an update, they live very near the migrant centre and I met the camp commander in their home a number of times so they will have a clear picture of what is happening I’m sorry if I have posted misleading information and if I have I will update it. No need to apologise , you could well be right, and its all posturing by the Spanish for the media. But from what I can gather, there are political reasons why this has happened, and unless its stopped in its tracks, Ceuta is about to become a central transit port for a mass migration into the EU from Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 58 minutes ago, Rewulf said: No need to apologise , you could well be right, and its all posturing by the Spanish for the media. But from what I can gather, there are political reasons why this has happened, and unless its stopped in its tracks, Ceuta is about to become a central transit port for a mass migration into the EU from Africa. and we can all guess where these migrants will make their way to, once they have eu papers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, harkom said: and we can all guess where these migrants will make their way to, once they have eu papers? That would be the EU then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 33 minutes ago, oowee said: That would be the EU then. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 55 minutes ago, oowee said: That would be the EU then. If only it were that simple.... You may have noticed rather a lot of amateur sailors in the Channel just lately...with or without EU paperwork ? Some of these very inexperienced sailors would have originated in Ceuta or Lampredusa type enclaves. Luckily the French navy and coast guard are there to shepherd them in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted May 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: If only it were that simple.... You may have noticed rather a lot of amateur sailors in the Channel just lately...with or without EU paperwork ? Some of these very inexperienced sailors would have originated in Ceuta or Lampredusa type enclaves. Luckily the French navy and coast guard are there to shepherd them in the right direction. Another similarity is that the EU / Spain pay Morocco handsomely to control their side of the border just as we do with the French. When it suits Morocco and France take the money then actively assist the migrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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